Shortest train utilising Cravens snack car?

[murphaph]

Hi all,

What was the shortest regular train in passenger service where a Cravens snack car was utilised?

How many standard coaches in that train?

Perhaps Waterford to Limerick services?

Edited July 24, 2020 by murphaph
Clarity

[NIRCLASS80]

I have seen photos of 1 Craven plus 1 GSV being hauled by a baby GM in service 

Edited July 24, 2020 by NIRCLASS80

[murphaph]

Was that with a snack car @NIRCLASS80? I have also seen pictures of just the gsv + one standard coach. 

[NIRCLASS80]

Just a standard 

[hexagon789]

Do you mean actually in use as a snack car or purely in the train formation?

 

Iirc they were converted for the Rosslare line to allow the last use of timber stock on mainline services to cease, the Rosslare then became two sets of Cravens until replacement by Mk2Ds.

 

For use of a Cravens snack simply as a standard in a train formation, I can link to a page with a photo of I think 1518 as part of a Cork-Mallow-Tralee service formed of Cravens and a BR Van though it's 2004 not 1990s but I don't see why it wouldn't have happened in the 1990s after the cars became surplus to catering requirements.

[murphaph]

1 hour ago, hexagon789 said:

Do you mean actually in use as a snack car or purely in the train formation?

The latter would be good enough for me and modelling purposes but that's an interesting question I hadn't thought of so I'd be delighted to get an answer to both!

[DiveController]

Not directly related to your question on the snack car but look at the lead Cravens coach on this formation and spot the difference. Maybe the only one running between 1989 until 1991-ish

 

[jhb171achill]

11 minutes ago, DiveController said:

Not directly related to your question on the snack car but look at the lead Cravens coach on this formation and spot the difference. Maybe the only one running between 1989 until 1991-ish

 

The one with the two IR logos!

There was that one coach. Something suggests there may have been two coaches with that on them, but I am not sure. Certainly no more.

It was short-lived too.

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 9:52 AM, murphaph said:

Hi all,

What was the shortest regular train in passenger service where a Cravens snack car was utilised?

How many standard coaches in that train?

Perhaps Waterford to Limerick services?

Claremorris to Ballina, Waterford to Rosslare, Rosslare - Limerick and Limerick - Nenagh often, if not USUALLY had a train consisting of a single coach plus genny van. Latterly this was a Craven, though in the 1970s / early 80s it could be a Park Royal or an old laminate.

It would not have been a snack car though as none of those services had one.

The shortest consist WITH a snack car was probably the snack car, plus genny van, plus maybe four or five other coaches. It would not be worthwhile putting a snack car on a service with less, unless it was closed up as such and only used for extra passenger accommodation.

[DiveController]

Incidentally, I suppose for anyone who might not know, 187s is in a 'transitional livery', a worn Supertrain livery with IR set of points logos added to the sides, and to the cab fronts to cover the old CIE roundel. This is 1991 4 years after the IR log was introduced.... so the Cravens has (not only logos, but) Tippex stripes whereas the loco does not

[hexagon789]

10 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

The one with the two IR logos!

There was that one coach. Something suggests there may have been two coaches with that on them, but I am not sure. Certainly no more.

It was short-lived too.

Claremorris to Ballina, Waterford to Rosslare, Rosslare - Limerick and Limerick - Nenagh often, if not USUALLY had a train consisting of a single coach plus genny van. Latterly this was a Craven, though in the 1970s / early 80s it could be a Park Royal or an old laminate.

It would not have been a snack car though as none of those services had one.

The shortest consist WITH a snack car was probably the snack car, plus genny van, plus maybe four or five other coaches. It would not be worthwhile putting a snack car on a service with less, unless it was closed up as such and only used for extra passenger accommodation.

Give me a bit jhb and I'll turn up an instance of a snack car as part of a two Cravens+GSV, it's somewhere in my notes of such things. Definitely being used only for seats though, I think it was a Ballina branch shuttle so no snacks, just a bone-shaking ride!

[jhb171achill]

I remember seeing an old laminate-era dining car in use as a passenger coach on a Dundalk - Connolly local in the early 1980s....

[ttc0169]

4 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Give me a bit jhb and I'll turn up an instance of a snack car as part of a two Cravens+GSV, it's somewhere in my notes of such things. Definitely being used only for seats though, I think it was a Ballina branch shuttle so no snacks, just a bone-shaking ride!

The Cravens snack car was included in the formation of the Ballina branch Cravens set on only one occasion when part of the RPSI Cravens rail-tour set was used to strengthen the branch train back in 2003, I will check my Guards journal notes for dates and formation numbers but it was hauled by NIRs on loan locomotive 112.

[ttc0169]

2 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

The Cravens snack car was included in the formation of the Ballina branch Cravens set on only one occasion when part of the RPSI Cravens rail-tour set was used to strengthen the branch train back in 2006, I will check my Guards journal notes for dates and formation numbers but it was hauled by NIRs on loan locomotive 112.

112 in Ballina prior to working the 18:00 branch train to Claremorris which included Cravens diner 1508 second from the locomotive (May 2006)

The formation was 112,1532,1508,1507,1550 & GSV 3189.

[hexagon789]

4 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

The Cravens snack car was included in the formation of the Ballina branch Cravens set on only one occasion when part of the RPSI Cravens rail-tour set was used to strengthen the branch train back in 2003, I will check my Guards journal notes for dates and formation numbers but it was hauled by NIRs on loan locomotive 112.

Intriguing because I'm positive I had a much earlier date than 2003 and definitely far fewer coaches, anyway I'll see what I do have in my coaching stock notes

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I remember seeing an old laminate-era dining car in use as a passenger coach on a Dundalk - Connolly local in the early 1980s....

Not unheard in Scotland either, with the various micro-buffet conversions (pretty much akin to a snack car with one seating bay and the adjacent toilet repurposed for a buffet counter. Very few saw proper use as buffets, trains being switched to a trolley service not long after many conversions entered traffic, the trolley being loaded in the brake van instead of the micro-buffet.

 

[murphaph]

How many Cravens snack cars were there when they got their tippex stripes?

[hexagon789]

16 minutes ago, murphaph said:

How many Cravens snack cars were there when they got their tippex stripes?

As I recall 1518 and 1520 were done in 1986 for Rosslare; 1508 and 1509 were converted in about 1990/1 so would only have carried tippex.

The ITG 1989 lists the Cravens buffets as 1518 and 1520 still, but the 1994 has them both as Standards and 1508 and 1509 as buffets, so it seems only two existed at any one time.

Bit like the Cravens Superstandards, 5 numbers were used but no more than 4 existed concurrently and only 2 existed for longer than 4 years in one go.

 

Welcome to the wonderfully complex and fascinating world of Irish coaching stock!

[murphaph]

Seems crazy to convert two snack cars back to standard while converting two standards to snack cars but I suppose if the two original cars needed major work and would have been unavailable for a prolonged period then it would have made sense to take one of the spare standards and convert that and if only 2 snack cars were deemed necessary then the logical thing would be to convert the originals back to standards. 

Thank you very much for the details.

[hexagon789]

I had a look through the Journals.

No. 101 (Oct 1986) mentions 1518 converted to Snack Car seating 44

No. 116 (Oct 1991) mentions 1509 converted to Snack Car

 

Vehicles 1520 and 1508 are not mentioned nor is any conversion back to Standards.

 

As an aside, while looking through the Journals, the Cravens stock is mentioned as getting tippex stripes in the Feb 1989 issue, so the earliest would appear to have been done in presumably December 1988/January 1989.

[KMCE]

On 7/26/2020 at 2:19 AM, DiveController said:

 

This one I recognise.  That's the 17:25 to Arklow on Platform 5 - Huston.  I travelled on that train for 4-5 years (c. 1988), which normally consisted of 4-5 coaches with a generating van - there was never a snack car on this one as it was commuter only.

This one would have been the Dublin Rosslare train aroun the same time (again platform 5 - 18:30) which always included a snack car - not always open however.

Not sure how useful this is, however it did bring back some memories!!

Ken

 

 

[murphaph]

Thx Ken. I guess you mean Connolly rather than Heuston but valuable info nonetheless.

[KMCE]

3 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Connolly

Of course - Jaysus, you think I would get it right after that amount of time on the train!!!!!!