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Everything posted by BSGSV

  1. Interesting thought re the G class. With regard to the railcars in use as hauled stock, as they had vacuum brakes they were used (as IRN shows) more than once as hauled stock for relief trains.
  2. BSGSV

    IRM A Class; Our First Locomotive!

    The station has been at that site since the 19th Century. (1880's?) A nice shot showing the Up starter from the down platform, for short workings terminating at Killiney. Third and fourth carriages in Aluminium silver, is one one of the Suburban compos? Anyway, a bit of a sidetrack.
  3. BSGSV

    IRM A Class; Our First Locomotive!

    Irish Railfans' News, August 1969 on the subject of A class liveries: The silver livery of the first As was offset by green numerals at each end and about half-way along each side, by a green CIÉ “snail” emblem on each side, and by the red buffer beams. As the years passed the livery became more and more dishevelled until by 1958 all (except A16 and A19 which were repainted in 1957) were grubby, to say the least. A change was made then: in May 1958 A46 appeared in a livery of dark green with a light green waistband and numerals. The buffer beams remained red. About the same time A36 appeared in a lighter green without the waistband but with numerals and buffer beams similar to A46. In time A locos 10, 11, 15, 24, 25, 34, 45, 51, 54, 57, 59 and 60 came out of the shops in the “A46 livery”; this was during 1958-59. Early in 1960 the overall light green livery, as on A36, began appearing on a wide scale. Late in that year A46 itself succumbed and came out sans waistband in the lighter green. The preference for the lighter green livery continued until mid-1961 although it should be noted that no other loco made the transition from the dark green to the light green livery. Thus in 1961 the A class locos bore two green liveries while the original silver livery (in a really poor state) was still to be found. There was a dramatic change in September 1961, when A6 appeared in a livery of black, golden brown and white. The white consisted of a band around the loco, a little below roof height, which dipped to a point at either end over the ridge between the cab windows. Below this was a wide layer of black which likewise came down in a point, this time below the cab windows and immediately below the point of the white band. The rest of the bodywork was brown, and the buffer beams were the familiar red. The numbers were in white on each end only. This livery spread gradually during 1962-3, though after the first few locos the black band was made narrower. To confuse the picture, however, A16 appeared early in 1962 resplendent in the original silver livery! Though the “black and tan” livery (as it was very quickly dubbed) was applied to A locos: 1-3, 5-8, 12, 14, 15, 17, 20, 22-24, 27, 31, 36, 37, 39, 40, 47, 48, 50, 52, 56 and 58, there were still some locos running at this time in the old silver colours. The latter were by now exceedingly worn and some numbers were barely visible. Then early in 1964 A30 appeared completely black in colour, the only relief being a white band above cab window level at each end; this rose to a point in the centre, between the windows. There were white numerals at each end and midway along the sides; the buffer beams were orange. This did not last long - only 2 other locos were so treated, A49 and A55 - but was replaced by a slightly-modified version in which the buffer beams reverted to red, and the centrally-placed side numerals were replaced by two separate smaller numbers on the sides: one at each end, just above the bogie and behind the cab door. The modified black and white livery remained unchallenged until mid-1968 and almost all the class were painted in it. There were exceptions, of course: As 1, 15, 22, 37 and 52 remained black and tan, the damaged A54 was still dark green, while A16, following its efforts in the filming of “Darling Lili”, was in a rather extraordinary livery which was mainly black with a stretch of black and tan at either end. By this time also, A58R and A59R had appeared in black and tan. In June 1968 A52 appeared in a variant on the all black livery. It had a yellow patch covering each end from just below the cab windows down to the buffer beam, the yellow area being the full width of the loco. The numbers at each end were in black. The livery was not adopted for A15, which was since repainted in black and white, without the yellow ends. The current position is thus: As 22, 37, 58R, 59R: black and tan; As 4, 12, 13, 20, 24,31, 34, 50, 52, 55: black and white with yellow ends. All others are black and white.
  4. BSGSV

    IRM A Class; Our First Locomotive!

    I would agree with you that the tan on A6 seemed a little lower than others. The high golden brown band seems (at least on the Transplants) to stop just under the grill for the traction motor blower (by then removed) at No. 2 end. I'm not sure if the dipped band was to hide dirt, although it might have helped in that regard. I had thought it was to avoid having to paint the band through the radiator grills and side doors. Oil thrown out the exhaust led in later years to some A's having strips placed above the cab front windows to stop the oil being then smeared by the wipers across the screen, which for some reason didn't help the driver see the line too well. Regarding CAWS (and radio), that appeared with DART re-signalling and Suburban CTC (complete with ATP for the DART units themselves) and was retro-fitted to Mainline CTC slightly later, and as that expanded, was generally rolled out with the colour lights within a short time period. CAWS guards weren’t fitted originally, and were developed due to the number of CAWS receivers getting bashed by objects on the track, as the receivers were outside the life guards. Many locos didn't receive them before they were withdrawn. I understand that the IRM team are looking at the variations in anything you can think of including front windows, buffers, fuel gauges, wipers, footsteps etc. etc. as one has come to expect with their attention to detail. I don't envy them the livery discussions.
  5. BSGSV

    CIE Ambulance carriages

    Interior view here from Irish Railways Past and Present. Looks like a clerestory coach. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2312188505670533&set=gm.1195432550610101&type=3&theater&ifg=1
  6. BSGSV

    NCC 0-4-0ST Number 16

    Isn't No. 16 covered in Mr. Scott's book on NCC locos?
  7. BSGSV

    L&LSR Tooban Junction Signal Box

    Tooban Junction was a Railway Signal Co. design, replicated very frequently in different sizes throughout Ireland and Britain, although Tooban looks quite nnarrow from pictures. The small flat roof buildings (Bridge End, Letterkenny, Fahan, Buncrana, Clonmany and Carndonagh are examples) are Dutton and Co. style huts, either by Duttons themselves, or possible by JF Pease who took them over.
  8. BSGSV

    Class 141 1E 171 Murphy models

    Oh dear. I'm going to sound a smartass again. The 37 members of the 141 class arrived in a two week period from 22nd November 1962 and started trials almost immediately, with service entry as early as 10th December 1962. So the locos could have been seen on specials on the Derry Road in 1963 or 1964.
  9. BSGSV

    Class 141 1E 171 Murphy models

    Don't wish to be smart, but only the 141's were around in 1963. 181's only arrived after the Derry Road closed.
  10. BSGSV

    CIE/IR Mk2D formations.

    Apologies for the delay in coming back with the IRRS Journal info. Messrs. Carse and Gray did their survey on Friday 9th May 1980. Noted that Gen Van 5611 had been destroyed by fire in August 1979, otherwise all vehicles intact. 5406 was the current State Coach, but 5408 was being converted to same. Aside from these, 5214 was idle at Connolly, curious as no AC stock was rostered at that time to use the station. Not seen were 5153, 5155, 5208, 5215, 5217, 5227, 5231, 5233, 5402, 5405, some of which would have been under overhaul or getting attention in Inchicore. Just six sets were out: EGV + 8 on the link including the 07:40 Cork - Heuston, EGV + 9 on the link including 17:30 Heuston - Cork, EGV + 8 on the link including the 18:25 Heuston - Tralee, EGV + 8 on the link including the 17:50 Heuston - Limerick, EGV + 7 on the link including the 18:10 Heuston - Waterford, EGV + 9 on the link including the 18:35 Heuston - Galway. Despite the six sets being out above, in their notes they say that usually just five sets would be in daily use, with a sixth perhaps appearing ay busy periods and composed of some of several of the surplus compos and buffets. They cite the 10:30 Heuston - Tralee of 9th August as an example, 160 + 181 + EGV + 6, the six including three buffets and one compo and having over 350 passengers!
  11. BSGSV

    CIE/IR Mk2D formations.

    Regarding early working, it appeared that rakes were intoduced as they got stock available. As the carriages were fitted out and painted, so they came into the usuable pool. One early set was as small as an EGV, Compo, Buffet and two standards on the evening Heuston-Tralee. The original intention seems to have been altered, given the modification of 5 Compos to Standards very quickly. The 1973 timetable, which was notable for more trains than ever, with two trains from Dublin to provincial destinations in the evenings, and two up the morning, one of the pair being fast by omitting smaller station stops. For the commencement of that timetable, 10 sets appear to have been made up, EGV, First or Compo, Buffet and 4 Standards. 8 sets were in use, four on links Dublin-Cork, which had firsts, and the other four did links which included the "best" train from Waterford, Tralee, Limerick and Galway to Dublin in the morning and down in the evening. Subsequent timetables saw retrenchment on the number of trains, but there was also growing passenger numbers so by the end of the 1970's, bigger sets were needed, which reduced the number of sets in use. Clearly there's a chunk of the 70's rather hazily covered there, which someone else might have better knowledge of. Messrs Carse and Gray did a carriage survey about 1980 for the IRRS Journal, and I'll see what was there later.
  12. BSGSV

    Signalling diagrams

    I dug out the book on the Loughrea and Ballinrobe branches, which has the 1918 diagram and also a 1961 diagram, which looks rather the same! I hope that TRA don't mind reproducing the diagram, but I think it is some time since the book has been available. The outer home is clearer in the second diagram, and is really there for the level crossing. The discs are point indicators, worked off the adjacent turnout. The last one I can remember was at the traps from the goods yard at Gort.
  13. BSGSV

    Signalling diagrams

    I would not disagree with Snapper's suggestion, except that it seems over-signalled. It is more like what a UK heritage railway would apply now under current regs, rather than what historically would be put in, which would probably be a home, starter and a few discs, with hand signals for a lot of things, given there would be few locos moving at any one time - generally one. JHB, I would suggest your layout looks rather like Loughrea in part. Perhaps if you have the Transport Research Associates Baronial Lines book, it may have a diagram that might offer some help? As a comment, I'm not convinced about the three-way point (too expensive for a poor Irish branch line?), a trap would be needed exiting the goods/run-round to the main line, and the crossover to the goods/loco would be operated as such to ensure there was a trap from the goods. However, as is said many times, it's your layout and do what you like...
  14. BSGSV


    Looks like they are trying to keep the birds out of the Goods Shed, aside from possible loose slates at the edges, but given the amount of other holes that seem to be visible...
  15. BSGSV

    4 wheel timber wagons?

    I thought the beets were 12' wheelbase Mk.1 flats and the timbers were 14' wheelbase Mk.2 flats, but someone could well correct me.
  16. BSGSV

    How often do Loco's take on fuel?

    Fuelling in Inchicore is done on Roads 1 and 2 of the Running Shed (those nearest the running lines), just inside the Dublin end of the Shed. Oil and water is available there too. Windscreen washing was at the far end of the same roads, again inside.
  17. BSGSV

    Cabra Cement Sidings

    Not sure if you can access this thread from Irish Railways Past and Present Facebook Group, but there is a bit in this about Cabra that may be of interest: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2023219001234153&set=gm.886205991532760&type=3&theater&ifg=1 If the cabin being referred to is the old hip roof GSWR one, that wasn't a cabin from the 1930's but I would guess was used by the local staff as accommodation. One of the huts nearer Glasnevin was the 1930's "cabin" which housed the equipment relating to the then new colour lights.
  18. BSGSV

    IRM’s first loco announcement!

    I know this is a "fun" thread, but just for information, there's a good photo in Keith Pirt's first volume, showing the Turf Burner in geen, with a green carriage parked on the adjacent road. The stripe on the carriage is eau-de-nil, and the handrails, ladder and end stripes on the Turf Burner aren't.
  19. BSGSV

    Murphy Models Craven coaches white stripes

    Both 1518 and 1520 were converted c1986, with what were probably minimal buffet facilities, but don't seem to have lasted very long. I've never seen a photo of either in that state. Does anyone have any?
  20. BSGSV

    CIE green paint

    I would agree that a hint more yellow is needed. As regards the glossy finish, I've seen a freshly painted coach look lovely and glossy, and it is now, several years later, rather less so, due to being out in the weather. I've also seen paint from the same tin applied to another coach, and it looked (and looks) darker, compared to the one done some years previously.
  21. The loco was 124. No coaches were done. Michael McMahon's book "Irish Railway Rambler" has a pic of it, which is the second I have seen of this short lived (and not very pretty) livery. Edit: Apologies. I just see from the caption to Michael's photo of 124, that he says one push-pull coach DID get a green stripe, and it was even shorter-lived than the loco. No details as to which coach, which I've never seen a photo of.
  22. BSGSV

    CIE Ambulance carriages

    CIE had a few ambulance coaches, created at various dates from at least 1950, or possibly before. They carried their original numbers for a long period, but were renumbered into a special series in the Autumn of 1965. AM10 to 13 were formerly 94M, 163M, 1097 and 1900. They were joined in early 1966 by AM14 and AM15, converted from Park Royals 1380 and 1408. The latter was the driving trailer from the Waterford & Tramore and had been in store since returned to Inchicore, following closure of that line. The extra two were probably there to allow withdrawal of some or all of the earlier coaches. Edit: I see from notes that 1097 replaced 346 about 1957, so perhaps there were other "Invalid" coaches that didn't get re-numbered as "AM".
  23. BSGSV

    Irish Model Buses for sale

    Beside the cinema was built one of Dublin's first automatic telephone exchanges, opened on the first day of 1936. The orientation of that building (on my only visit some 30-odd years ago) appeared to me to be towards the Templeogue Road, so I would imagine it was built on the tramway yard. Edit: Having just checked Maps, the exchange was just to the north of the Tramway yard. The cinema is now an Enterprise Centre.
  24. BSGSV

    Craven generator

    Not occasional that one! Every weekday for several years. Down Day Mail at 11:10 (or so) from Heuston carried the TPO and Van down, and the 15:10 (or so) from Galway brought it back up. The Mk2AC set did the 05:20 Up from Cork and the 20:35 Down to Cork, before and after the round trip to Galway.
  25. BSGSV

    The official Irish" Conversion" thread

    Here's a link to get to photos showing the G611's when newly delivered to Inchicore: http://catalogue.nli.ie/Collection/vtls000148612/Home?lookfor=inchicore&type=AllFields&page=4&view=list and then type "Dutch" in the search field. G611 was similarly painted in preservation to provide some variety from the otherwise black or black and tan options, as G617 has carried both those liveries. The green looks well, even though the locomotives don't appear to have carried it in traffic.

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