BSGSV

Started on 2nd April 1973. The Galway and Westport trains also went over to Athlone - Portarlington to Heuston. Sligo, Rosslare and Dun Laoghaire Pier trains went to Connolly, along with the Galway Mails, except the Galway Night Mail started at Westland Row. Boat trains from Rosslare started running to Limerick rather than Cork. Lots of changes, with associated infrastructure changes beforehand. A full description is given in IRRS Journal No. 61 of June 1973. If memory serves, the timetable only lasted the one year? The AC sets were all seven-piece, EGV, Super-Standard or Compo, Restaurant, four Standards. Eight sets in service, four on the Cork road (with Super-Standards), one each Tralee, Limerick, Waterford, Galway (with Compo). The Push-Pulls had started on the Dublin Suburban in February too.

I have looked at 2977 and 2978. An Post's 2977 poses some difficulty, in that the body was re-skinned in preservation, and, given it is in the Carriage Gallery at Downpatrick, scraping away paint is not encouraged! The narrow panels at the inset doors are still original, although only one offered any flaking paint. A flake from the inner edge of the panel had green paint closest to the metal, but could be just paint creeping through a crack, as a flake from the middle of the same panel got down to bare metal with no sign of green beneath the golden brown. DCDR's own 2978 offered more scope for samples, and no evidence of green beneath either black or brown. The first coat of B&T seems to have directly on top of the aluminium, with no primer, which would make sense given the aluminium had weathered. I also noted that as 2978 was next to 1918, that the official width of 10' 5" clearly related to the vehicle with nets. I measured the end of 2978 at 9 ' wide. The four-wheel TPO at DCDR was also measured at 9' wide.

I would agree. The contemporary IRRS and IRN journals, and Kennedy's paper to the IRRS in 1965, all say 61' 6" long. The triangulated underframe was produced by John Thompson Pressings of Wolverhampton, and it seems unlikely a special batch of ten made 60' long would have been produced, just for these vans. As to the width, the TPO's were 9', so 10' wide for the luggage vans seems odd. http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305576 doesn't seem to show much width difference. Doyle & Hirsch (which presumably quotes official records), also says that 2548 was 10' wide, which also seems strange given the other carriages of 1935 were all 9'.

Volume 6, Number 2, April 1960. Also says the max. load is 6 tons. Given what the official records show though...

Irish Railfans' News, on introduction, has 2549 - 58 as 61' 6" long and 9' wide.

You're right, not a Cravens with Commonwealth bogies. A laminate in the 1429 to 1448 range, that would have been "silver" when new and looks freshly enough repainted into B&T.

Something along the same line in this link, for those who are group members of Irish Railways Past & Present on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=938113889924658&set=gm.1574808962672456&type=3&theater&ifg=1

Meh. Straffan. Strabane. Just down the road from each other. As JHB says, we all make mistakes, and I am very grateful for James O'Dea for taking the photographs and NLI for getting them visible to the rest of us.

A rare one to see, many thanks. 2559 to 61 converted from 2115, 2120, 2121 corridor compos in early 1971. 2115 was 1935, the other pair 1937, so a change in width between the first and the other pair, the bulge at the waist is easy to see. All 60' long. The later conversions, 2562 etc., were CIE 1950's composite conversions, some of the composites having been downgraded to all third in the interim, starting in mid-1973. The four wheel tin vans were going fast in the early 70's.

Another great spot. Another of the same type behind 2554 as well. They were new then, and still with the Guard's ducket. James O'Dea did write on the back of his prints, but sometimes the translation to the NLI title can go a bit astray.

Thank you for clarifying which photo. As you have surmised, the issue is that the second coach is in green, but is a 2549 series luggage van, not a TPO. I will be following up on JHB's comments re the preserved examples in due course.

Can you clarify if this is the photo you mean, please? http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305576 I'm seeing a dirty aluminium TPO in that.

A narrow side fixed window too, and footsteps on the bogie. Great spot.

None of the photos above shows a CIE built TPO in green in CIE service. Has anyone any evidence that such existed?

I suspect none of the CIE bogie TPO's were green. The O'Dea photos look like they are still in the original silver, and would have gone to black/tan/white next, while the 1968 conversions would have been painted in that from the start.

Mechanical exchange of mails ceased in 1968, and 2979-81 appeared in Nov. 1968, so didn't get nets. They were converted from 2114 (of 1935), 2116/9 (of 1936) so originated under Arthur Harty's time as CME. I suspect some of the sorting frames of 4-wheel TPO's 2962-7 may have been used in the bogie conversions, as 2962-71 were stored out of use at that repository for redundant stock, Sallins, by 1968. 1297 at DCDR today still has one of those GSR bogies with Hoffmann roller bearings.

The cooling systems in the Crossleys had separate engine water and engine oil cooling sections. When rebuilt, an EMD oil cooler was put in (heat exchanger between engine oil and water), so the radiators became all water. With the increase in engine size, the number of radiator elements on the C class was increased. The C class retained its load regulator, but got EMD motor field shunt contactors, and various EMD electrical relays, pressure switches and air brake valves. The A got an EMD load regulator.

I would understand a comment about a lack of power regarding the original C class, but anything I've seen suggests the Crossley A's were able to shift a good load. If they were working! That said, I have no personal experience of the original A's.

A nice job, indeed. I believe the cabin had a fire, sometime in the mid-1960's to early 1970's, and the roof was changed from the normal curved one.

The short answer is I don't have measurements of the signals - the cabin was still there when I was rambling about, long after the signals themselves had gone. The platform bracket signal seems to possibly be an older one, with new arms, given the "parachute" finials. A photo I have seen indicates that the top of an 80-class passing the signal is about level with the bottom of the shunt signal posts bracketed out lower than the two main signals. You could estimate from that, perhaps?

Sorry, I missed this enquiry earlier. Notes I have say the length of the cabin is 17 feet 9 inches long, by 10 feet 5 inches wide. The extension at the station end under the stairs was 3 feet 9 inches. The operating floor was 8 feet approximately above ground level and 6 feet 6 inches high. Timber front to the operating floor and most of each sides, with brick rear wall. No windows in the base. The odd diagonal "hole" accommodates the end of the girder on which the lever frame is mounted, the girder being supported by the end walls. The lever frame was a Westinghouse A2, 32 levers, 4 inches lever centre to lever centre, mounted at the rear of the cabin. The cabin probably dates from 1932 when the station was resignalled with LMS upper quadrant semaphores, becoming the only location on the island of Ireland with a large number of upper quadrant signals. In latter years, the cabin worked short section to Magheramorne with No.6 Tyer's Tablet and long section to Whitehead with Railway Signal Company key token.

Courtney & Stephens (Courtney, Stephens & Bailey) made signals, interlocking frames and cabins on their own account, probably the only Irish contractor to do so. They seem to have later become agents for the Gloucester Wagon Co. (who expanded into signalling to supplement rolling stock construction income) in Ireland. The Railway Signal Co. was a later creation of George Edwards who left the GWCo., along with his patents, and set up on his own account, leading RSCo. material and GWCo. material to have a similar appearance.

The GNR(I) converted all distants to yellow on a line by line basis (in the early 1940's if memory serves), including those south of the border. CIE repainted some back to red! NCC and BCDR also used yellow distants.

It depends on the time period of the model. Timber square post signals would have been very common, all over, 100 years ago. There was a fair amount of lattice post signals, particularly on the DSE. The GNR seem to have used the telegraph pole in their later years, as an economy measure, as they don't seem to feature in earlier photos (but someone's bound to prove me wrong on that now). There was a small number of concrete post signals. The GSR introduced tubular metal signals and CIE continued, so with renewals, these became most common on CIE lines.

Glover, I'm not old enough to remember seeing them in the flesh, I'm afraid. I rely on old photos and documents. Mr. McQuail's photo was in colour, which was handy, and 779N had a black end, the golden brown and white were just on the sides. I had another look at the photo of 786N, and the white definitely isn't taken across the end anyway. What I didn't spot first time around was the bloke in the background. What was he standing on?