BSGSV

Oh dear. I'm going to sound a smartass again. The 37 members of the 141 class arrived in a two week period from 22nd November 1962 and started trials almost immediately, with service entry as early as 10th December 1962. So the locos could have been seen on specials on the Derry Road in 1963 or 1964.

Don't wish to be smart, but only the 141's were around in 1963. 181's only arrived after the Derry Road closed.

Apologies for the delay in coming back with the IRRS Journal info. Messrs. Carse and Gray did their survey on Friday 9th May 1980. Noted that Gen Van 5611 had been destroyed by fire in August 1979, otherwise all vehicles intact. 5406 was the current State Coach, but 5408 was being converted to same. Aside from these, 5214 was idle at Connolly, curious as no AC stock was rostered at that time to use the station. Not seen were 5153, 5155, 5208, 5215, 5217, 5227, 5231, 5233, 5402, 5405, some of which would have been under overhaul or getting attention in Inchicore. Just six sets were out: EGV + 8 on the link including the 07:40 Cork - Heuston, EGV + 9 on the link including 17:30 Heuston - Cork, EGV + 8 on the link including the 18:25 Heuston - Tralee, EGV + 8 on the link including the 17:50 Heuston - Limerick, EGV + 7 on the link including the 18:10 Heuston - Waterford, EGV + 9 on the link including the 18:35 Heuston - Galway. Despite the six sets being out above, in their notes they say that usually just five sets would be in daily use, with a sixth perhaps appearing ay busy periods and composed of some of several of the surplus compos and buffets. They cite the 10:30 Heuston - Tralee of 9th August as an example, 160 + 181 + EGV + 6, the six including three buffets and one compo and having over 350 passengers!

Regarding early working, it appeared that rakes were intoduced as they got stock available. As the carriages were fitted out and painted, so they came into the usuable pool. One early set was as small as an EGV, Compo, Buffet and two standards on the evening Heuston-Tralee. The original intention seems to have been altered, given the modification of 5 Compos to Standards very quickly. The 1973 timetable, which was notable for more trains than ever, with two trains from Dublin to provincial destinations in the evenings, and two up the morning, one of the pair being fast by omitting smaller station stops. For the commencement of that timetable, 10 sets appear to have been made up, EGV, First or Compo, Buffet and 4 Standards. 8 sets were in use, four on links Dublin-Cork, which had firsts, and the other four did links which included the "best" train from Waterford, Tralee, Limerick and Galway to Dublin in the morning and down in the evening. Subsequent timetables saw retrenchment on the number of trains, but there was also growing passenger numbers so by the end of the 1970's, bigger sets were needed, which reduced the number of sets in use. Clearly there's a chunk of the 70's rather hazily covered there, which someone else might have better knowledge of. Messrs Carse and Gray did a carriage survey about 1980 for the IRRS Journal, and I'll see what was there later.

I dug out the book on the Loughrea and Ballinrobe branches, which has the 1918 diagram and also a 1961 diagram, which looks rather the same! I hope that TRA don't mind reproducing the diagram, but I think it is some time since the book has been available. The outer home is clearer in the second diagram, and is really there for the level crossing. The discs are point indicators, worked off the adjacent turnout. The last one I can remember was at the traps from the goods yard at Gort.

I would not disagree with Snapper's suggestion, except that it seems over-signalled. It is more like what a UK heritage railway would apply now under current regs, rather than what historically would be put in, which would probably be a home, starter and a few discs, with hand signals for a lot of things, given there would be few locos moving at any one time - generally one. JHB, I would suggest your layout looks rather like Loughrea in part. Perhaps if you have the Transport Research Associates Baronial Lines book, it may have a diagram that might offer some help? As a comment, I'm not convinced about the three-way point (too expensive for a poor Irish branch line?), a trap would be needed exiting the goods/run-round to the main line, and the crossover to the goods/loco would be operated as such to ensure there was a trap from the goods. However, as is said many times, it's your layout and do what you like...

Looks like they are trying to keep the birds out of the Goods Shed, aside from possible loose slates at the edges, but given the amount of other holes that seem to be visible...

I thought the beets were 12' wheelbase Mk.1 flats and the timbers were 14' wheelbase Mk.2 flats, but someone could well correct me.

Fuelling in Inchicore is done on Roads 1 and 2 of the Running Shed (those nearest the running lines), just inside the Dublin end of the Shed. Oil and water is available there too. Windscreen washing was at the far end of the same roads, again inside.

Not sure if you can access this thread from Irish Railways Past and Present Facebook Group, but there is a bit in this about Cabra that may be of interest: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2023219001234153&set=gm.886205991532760&type=3&theater&ifg=1 If the cabin being referred to is the old hip roof GSWR one, that wasn't a cabin from the 1930's but I would guess was used by the local staff as accommodation. One of the huts nearer Glasnevin was the 1930's "cabin" which housed the equipment relating to the then new colour lights.

I know this is a "fun" thread, but just for information, there's a good photo in Keith Pirt's first volume, showing the Turf Burner in geen, with a green carriage parked on the adjacent road. The stripe on the carriage is eau-de-nil, and the handrails, ladder and end stripes on the Turf Burner aren't.

Both 1518 and 1520 were converted c1986, with what were probably minimal buffet facilities, but don't seem to have lasted very long. I've never seen a photo of either in that state. Does anyone have any?

I would agree that a hint more yellow is needed. As regards the glossy finish, I've seen a freshly painted coach look lovely and glossy, and it is now, several years later, rather less so, due to being out in the weather. I've also seen paint from the same tin applied to another coach, and it looked (and looks) darker, compared to the one done some years previously.

The loco was 124. No coaches were done. Michael McMahon's book "Irish Railway Rambler" has a pic of it, which is the second I have seen of this short lived (and not very pretty) livery. Edit: Apologies. I just see from the caption to Michael's photo of 124, that he says one push-pull coach DID get a green stripe, and it was even shorter-lived than the loco. No details as to which coach, which I've never seen a photo of.

CIE had a few ambulance coaches, created at various dates from at least 1950, or possibly before. They carried their original numbers for a long period, but were renumbered into a special series in the Autumn of 1965. AM10 to 13 were formerly 94M, 163M, 1097 and 1900. They were joined in early 1966 by AM14 and AM15, converted from Park Royals 1380 and 1408. The latter was the driving trailer from the Waterford & Tramore and had been in store since returned to Inchicore, following closure of that line. The extra two were probably there to allow withdrawal of some or all of the earlier coaches. Edit: I see from notes that 1097 replaced 346 about 1957, so perhaps there were other "Invalid" coaches that didn't get re-numbered as "AM".

Beside the cinema was built one of Dublin's first automatic telephone exchanges, opened on the first day of 1936. The orientation of that building (on my only visit some 30-odd years ago) appeared to me to be towards the Templeogue Road, so I would imagine it was built on the tramway yard. Edit: Having just checked Maps, the exchange was just to the north of the Tramway yard. The cinema is now an Enterprise Centre.

Not occasional that one! Every weekday for several years. Down Day Mail at 11:10 (or so) from Heuston carried the TPO and Van down, and the 15:10 (or so) from Galway brought it back up. The Mk2AC set did the 05:20 Up from Cork and the 20:35 Down to Cork, before and after the round trip to Galway.

Here's a link to get to photos showing the G611's when newly delivered to Inchicore: http://catalogue.nli.ie/Collection/vtls000148612/Home?lookfor=inchicore&type=AllFields&page=4&view=list and then type "Dutch" in the search field. G611 was similarly painted in preservation to provide some variety from the otherwise black or black and tan options, as G617 has carried both those liveries. The green looks well, even though the locomotives don't appear to have carried it in traffic.

AEC sets certainly did feature interesting compositions as you say JHB. Railcar sets could even turn up as part of loco-hauled trains as the following shows: Irish Railfan's News, August 1970: "With the advent of the summer timetable the last railcar working outside Dublin finished. This was the set which worked the Wexford/Rosslare locals. When it was necessary to change the set on these workings the replacement used to be hauled down attached to the 09:00 Pearse Station to Rosslare, the “old” set coming back on the return 15:10". The last day of the Thurles-Clonmel line also had an "A" hauling a two-piece railcar set, that acquired an additional ordinary passenger coach during the day - presumably to cope with the crowds. In the 1950's, before CIE had built the 24xx series buffets, an interesting selection of older catering vehicles was wired for railcar use, including a clerestory one.

The Cravens wired for AEC railcars were 1514, 1515, 1517, 1519, 1520, 1522.

Irish Railfans' News, October 1965. "Goolds Cross Crash.....At times of heavy traffic, especially during Horse Show week, the evening mainline departure for Kerry at 18:45 is divided into two portions, one for Limerick only at 18:45 and the second for Tralee at 19:00. On August 5 the latter, an eight coach railcar set comprising railcar 2634, second 1361, Diner 268N, Seconds 1515, 1514, P.Is 2661, 2660 & railcar 2637 struck a herd of cattle being driven across the line...". A few Cravens were wired as AEC railcar intermediates and do seem to have worked as such. Sorry JHB!

Does the sound not also depend on the exhaust arrangement? Or the body around the engine? Where do you stop? Very different sound from a C compared to a 181, despite both having an 8-645.

I think there were distinct variations of the 4-wheel flats? The original Mk.1's had a steel floor and oil axleboxes (some refitted with roller bearing in the 1980's) but (or so it was by the 1980's) rode too high for containers, as they had springs and spring links under the solebar but could be used for kegs and such. The same chassis was used as the basis for hoppers, tanks, barytes, pallet cement, and some acquired a couple of Bulleid opens and became the double-decker beet wagons. The Mk.11 flats had springs and spring links beside the solebar and were used for containers as they rode lower. I think these had roller bearing axleboxes from the start, but no steel floor, and they seem to have come in 12' and 14' wheelbase versions. All the 4-wheel flats were vacuum braked.

The 121's didn't get 645 engines until the 1980's, when they were available from withdrawn C class. Both 567 and 645 equipped locos were fitted for Mk.111 push-pull operation, and (as far as I know, but could be wrong) all 15 were made able to work the AEC push-pull sets, when they were fitted with MU equipment in the 1970's.

There's a picture in Nigel Mundy's collection of 385 (ex-184) taken at Antrim 28/10/67. UTA green, opposite side to the one in Des Coakham's book. No horizontal stripe apparent, just numbers and symbol.