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Irish railways generally didn't go overboard with such niceties as starting signal control, i.e. can't pull the starter unless a line clear has been received. On single lines, while many locations had a lock on the starting signal lever, released by a key from the ETS machine, itself released by co-operation to release a staff, it wasn't universal. Double track sections with Harper's were far from universally equipped with the equivalent. Given the busy nature of the service, it was a surprise to find so many cabins on the GNRI main line from Malahide to Drogheda, right to the end of mechanical working, relied on the signalman to follow procedures, rather than providing any additional safeguards for him. To clarify, what order did you expect signals to be cleared in?

To be clear, the unusual thing about Claremorris is the lack of function description on the lever pull plates (e.g. "Down Advanced Starter to Westport", "No. 19 Points" and such like). The releases are, as expected, on the bottoms of (some) plates. As you say, 31 had no indication latterly of anything needing to be pulled before it, but all three routes from it needed a points lever reversed, otherwise the loco would end up on the ballast. So, I would have expected that to be indicated on the lever plate of 31, but it is not so. While it is common in Britain for each route from a shunt signal to be given a separate disc (stacked on top of one another, and disc reading top to bottom, route left to right), GSR/CIE tended to be cheaper, so the signalman and driver needed to be more on their toes. 31 would (I believe) have controlled a shunt movement to three routes (i.e. driver can proceed past the signal only as far as he can see the line to be clear or until he reaches the next stop signal in that direction). I agree with you that prior to removal, it would have been the appropriate signal to use for run-rounds - although the Homes 59/61 don't have a co-located disc. No. 27 crossover from the down line (No.2 platform road) - you may have been expected to proceed as far as 13 and 14 discs before getting a signal, or be handsignalled before that (as it was near the cabin). I suspect 38 was added to replace the previously hand signalled move from Platform 2 to the down sidings (via No. 26 crossover), probably more commonly used once diesel fuelling started down there.

Being fresh this morning, I suspect Junctionmad and myself have been having a nice discussion but have had a diffierent idea of what some of the topics have been... One item/time period at a time might be useful to avoid this. The disc signal? http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/4476-One-for-the-Signalling-Nerds On the diagram the disc in question is worked by lever 31, at the Dublin end of Platform 1. Claremorris was interesting in that the lever pull plates had no descriptions of the functions at all, which is the only example I've can remember seeing. There were just the releases shown, and 31 seems to have been misleading. You would expect three routes - towards Tuam (with 54 reverse), towards Ballyhaunis (56 reverse) or the siding (57 traps reverse). So you would have thought the pull plate would show "54 or 56 or 57" at the bottom, to cover shunt moves in the particular direction. http://catalogue.nli.ie/Collection/vtls000148612/Home?lookfor=claremorris&submit=Apply Is an O'Dea photo of the diagram from 1960, and the disc in question is 52 (later used as the Advanced Starter). Other O'Dea photos show the lack of descriptions seems to have been an original feature. Sadly, the pulls on 52 aren't visible. One hopes it was better labelled than 31.

But now the light engine is approaching rolling stock stabled on the track the loco is entering, so running signals would be inappropriate. Having looked at the 071 video, the siding formerly accessed by 56 crossover and the disc are gone. So there was little option but to pull the platform starter anyway! The pull plate on lever 31 (the disc) would tell us how it could have been used, if we ever see such a pic.

Perhaps a way to think about it, is to consider what function the Advanced Starting signals performed, if you couldn't clear the preceding Platform Starter? Why have them at all, if so? I think you answered your own question though - the signalman controls the speed of the train by bringing it to, or nearly to, a stand, before clearing the preceding stop signal, and the driver understands by that, that the stop signal ahead is against him. While I would agree that there would be limited value in letting an Athlone bound train get to the Advanced Starter without line clear (the logistics of getting the staff out would be a nuisance), I would suspect in the days of sizable Pilgrimage traffic, that parking a train out there might be useful, or the equivalent at other points of the station layout.

The levers associated with the advanced starters at the Westport/Sligo end, 16 and 17, were originally associated with the Ballinrobe branch and show up in O'Dea's photo of the diagram taken in 1960 (on the NLI site). So, post 1960 and a nice trawl through the weekly circulars in the IRRS library should deliver a date! It was perfectly in order to clear the platform starting signal, without the advanced starter being clear (the latter being the section signal). At Claremorris, this would allow a train bound for the Athlone direction (for example) to clear Platform 1, so allowing another train to enter the platform, even if line clear hadn't been obtained from Ballyhaunis/Castlerea. The disc was to control access to the siding (56 crossover normal, 57 traps reversed). For the shunt move being discussed, the loco could have been routed to either the Athlone or Tuam lines via the main arms on the end-of-platform bracket signal to run round, the advanced starters preventing the driver from rambling too far. Given there was a level crossing at the Tuam end of the station (with the advanced starter slotted with the gates), I would think there were never Limit of Shunt boards that end, as there was the Advanced Starter instead.

Coal containers were emptied by grab I believe (but I could be wrong). I think you are confusing diagrams from different periods. The photo you put up of the diagram in latter days (in another thread) shows no limit of shunt boards. This is because there were latterly advanced starters on all routes, so the limit of shunts weren't required.

The pair could have been going for juice? Are you sure there are LOS signs at Claremorris? The coal was in open top containers. The train was formerly coal and oil for Asahi, latterly only coal. Asahi closed in 1997. The 071 worked in on a liner, spent the day on the Ballina branch passenger and worked back to Dublin next night with the up liner. In the days when there were liners.

I think CIE just followed the "standard" length for the first batch of compos in 1951. The change to 61' 6" was to allow the compos from then on to have four 1st and three 3rd class compartments, rather than three and four respectively.

2128 was a 60' coach, and so was shorter than the other conversions, which were 61' 6". Is there anything indicating this difference in drawings or lists?

I believe sanders operating in conjunction with emergency braking is fitted on current IE and NIR railcars and electric units. The A class was fitted with sanding originally, but the equipment was generally removed within a couple of years, if gauged by photos. To judge by some of Dan Renehan's writings, CIE management were dubious of the benefits of sanding on diesels, a view not necessarily shared by drivers.

Two of them still have the delivery notices in the windows, so I would say they are as they came from the factory. CIE's painters are applying the numbers, and the chalk is to keep the lines straight. Hardly applying numbers to undercoat and it seems too shiny anyway? Seeing all seven together, helps explain why the works numbers and CIE numbers don't keep in sequence.

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I must say that I too was somewhat surprised when I read the IRN snippet the first time. Having been on the lookout since for the green roof, I can't say that I think I've seen too many in photos. Mind, I can't say I've seen too many black ones either! Mid to dark grey, depending on the wear, seems more common. A typical example: https://www.facebook.com/IrishTractionGroup#!/photo.php?fbid=852344341443770&set=gm.370422766444421&type=1&theater Note the second vehicle appears to be one of 2172-5 of 1961, a type which otherwise seem to be rarely photographed, possibly because first class was abolished on the Dublin Suburban not too many years later, and the carriages were later rebuilt as brake standards. But to my eyes it has a grey roof, as has the heating van.

What about green roofed CIE stock in the 1950's? A quote from January 1959 Irish Railfans News: "A number of diesel railcars which have recently been repainted have been noted with roofs painted black instead of the former shade of dark green which conformed with their side panelling. This trend has also appeared in repainted coaching stock as Buffet car 2420 and Compo 2145 are in traffic with black roofs". One of the two Tom Ferris colour books has a railcar which clearly has a green roof, but other stock is elusive enough to identify, especially in black and white photos!

1097 is 52' over headstocks, not 50', so I'd be looking at 1098/1099 more. The diagram of 1096 is very recognisably 1097 today, allowing for modifications since build. 1097 was converted for Knock use in 1959. It didn't receive an "AM" number until the 1960's, when special series were introduced for these and Radio Studio coaches. The GSR 1928 list of carriages (held at IRRS archives) shows 1096 and 1097 as build date "1924R". Given 1097 is a 52' vehicle, the last others of which were built in 1911/1912, and given its number in the old numbering scheme, the "R" on the build date indicates to me that 1097 was not entirely new in 1924. Given it was just post civil war, 1096 and 1097 could have been victims of actions. Could have been just a fire (oil gas can be nasty). Could be just the underframes that remained and a new top fitted. Could be a rebuild of bodywork. Alas, no "Irish Railfans News" or IRRS Journal from those days to shed light!

Er, what does that mean? As to 1097. Its number does not suggest a 1920's build date, given the new numbering system introduced in 1915, after 1131 had been built. One possibility is that it was rebuilt in the 1920's. A carriage list in the IRRS archives could be taken as supporting that to some degree, or not, depending on your viewpoint. If it was rebuilt, question is why. Haven't seen anything on that. It was also very seriously "got at" in 1959 to convert it for Knock pilgrimage traffic, (later numbered AM12). A small kitchen was fitted in one of the compartments, and an open area fitted with railcar seats (presumably to accommodate stretchers). It also acquired the Commonwealth bogies at that time. Had a spell as 605A in Departmental use. RPSI also refurbed it. Quite a career!

Bear in mind that eight vehicles (drawn from Ambulance, Snack car and "ordinary" carriages) were converted to brake standards in the 1980's, replacing CIE built stock being withdrawn at the time. These were numbered in the 194x series and one of the photos you are asking about shows one. These had a small guard's compartment at one vestible end, basically just containing a brake valve, while a toilet was re/fitted at the other end. The refit seems to have been done (if the one at Downpatrick is representative) without leaving a gap between toilet compartment and passenger area bulkhead, and what look suspiciously like CIE stock windows added (panels stripped from scrap carriages?) as per the above photo.

Been posted before, but perhaps worth another viewing. Would the "real" golden brown / orange please stand up...

25M and 27M were both allocated to the Dublin -Sligo Day Mail in 1954, so likely that they were still on that in 1956. I'm guessing they had exchange apparatus one side only? Do the two in the picture seem to be the same way around? The Amiens St picture is dated 1961 and seems very late for dark green on the last carriages. Possibly shadow from the station buildings or cloud making them seem dark?

Both pictures are scans from the Keith Pirt book. The Sligo one is dated as 1956. So pre-C class acting as pilot.

First photo: MGWR 6-wheel TPO (?), two of 1372 to 1378 series CIE timber framed compartment seconds, followed by 2405 series buffet car.

I finally located the one and only photo I appear to have taken of one of these carriages - 1908 seen on an IRRS visit to Inchicore on 17th September 1988. I then had trouble finding a scanner that worked. Anyhow, I'm not sure if the attached is any use, but there we are. I haven't found much of a description about the van, just: "The remaining space of the coach is taken up by the luggage and brake van; this is walled-off, but a corridor at one side gives a through passage...Double doors and a separate guard's door are provided at each side of the coach". Unfortunately, it doesn't say which side the corridor was on. With regard to duckets, as Mayner pointed out, the photos of such vehicles on the Loughrea branch show they (it?) still had duckets. 1908 has clearly lost its by the end. 1906/7 were converted to run with railcars "a driver's seat and controls were fitted in the guard's van, with a lookout window in the end". Given the thread on 1408 and the absence of comment from Mayner and josefstadt on the driver being on the "wrong" side in 1906/7, compared to 1408, this would suggest to me that the van on 1904-8 was therefore on the right (as I look at the photo of 1908). I would suggest the driver's side, at least, would have had the ducket replaced by a droplight - in order for him to communicate with platform staff without leaving his seat. 1906/7 were refitted with Commonwealth bogies, which dates the conversion to 1954 onwards. It would appear that the two were not used much and the controls "were removed in 1960; but two years afterwards they were again installed to work the Westport section of the Cu na Mara, providing access to the buffet car in the Galway section of the train; but in the summer of 1963 this express became again locomotive-hauled, and the "mules" are now redundant". The comments in parantheses are from D. Kennedy's paper to the IRRS as printed in Journal 37, June 1965.

Apologies. I was getting the ones with electric storage heaters mixed up. 1904 and 1442 both had them for the Ballina branch set.

I think the Loughrea coach was 1910, from the batch of 5 laminate brakes. Went on to the Ballina branch after closure of the Loughrea branch? I believe the two driving trailers (which didn't see a great deal of use as such) were put back on main line work and were to be seen on the Dublin Suburban in the 70's.