Mol_PMB

Leslie, you can avoid running round by having a Hunslet at both ends…

Excellent ‘quick win’ and the quality decals and better wheels and roof really lift the appearance of these.

Nice postcard of a steam railmotor at Cashel on eBay this week: https://ebay.io/m/PXzKrn In the photo of the GSWR 0-4-4T at the top of the thread, there are some interesting features. The old loco tender, with what looks like a manual pump beside it. But it’s blocking the run-round loop. The loco seems to have two vacuum brake pipes on the front, which is rather unusual. I wonder why? And there’s evidence of busy goods traffic on the right-hand margin of the photo.

There’s a lot of interesting old Irish negatives appearing on eBay at the moment from this seller: https://ebay.io/m/cCWD1a The first couple of batches were mostly GNR and DNGR (not of so much interest to me), but there are some CIE shots now being added. I particularly like this one, presumably in the carriage shops at Inchicore: This is unfortunately cropped but a photo of a Queen I hadn’t seen before: https://ebay.io/m/VTu7sY Or if you’re into the ancient history there are several like this: https://ebay.io/m/HhNQYh

In 'Blue Peter' style, here's one I prepared earlier... This is an extract from one of the slides in my talk showing the evolution of wipers, headlights and buffers. The position of the number also changed, and later larger numerals were used. Not shown here, but in the early 1970s many of them gained an obstacle deflector 'skirt' below the bufferbeam (these were not all the same). When converted to push-pull, the driving trailers got a GM-style headlight on the roof dome. There were indeed several exhaust variants trialled, and I have some photos, but I'm not sure if there was ever a permanent solution to the fumes problem seen here. (photo by Bob Smallman in my collection) 2633 had an exhaust fitted on the front corner of the cab, while this excellent photo of 2602 in Ernie's collection shows a rather stylish exhaust straddling the gangway at the inner end: The heating boiler exhaust arrangements were also subject to modifications over the years. Tablet catchers were another modification fitted to the even-numbered cars. But they weren't so obvious - they were fitted behind a roller shutter door in the guards compartment. That's also nicely illustrated in the photo of 2602 above. I don't think it would be too hard for the modeller to implement most of these variants/options.

Very many thanks to @seagoebox for some scans of old documents from around 1950, which include a detailed technical description and some super photos and drawings of the major components and assemblies that made up the AEC railcars. The chassis drawing will be immensely helpful in getting the lower half of the model correct. Please bear with me as I have a lot on my plate at present, progress on the drawings will be slow.

Of course! Sorry I missed that one.

I believe the prototype list of liveries/variants would be: Crossley-engined Silver Brilliant green with waist line (NB some had black roofs, some green) Light green without waist line (NB some had black roofs, some green) Black and tan with deep tan band, no roundel or bodyside number Black without roundel, large bodyside number in centre (214, 219, 222 only) Black with roundel, 2x small numbers behind cabs Black without roundel, large bodyside number in centre, yellow end panels (219 only) Black with roundel, 2x small numbers behind cabs, yellow end panels (NB 203 also had yellow bufferbeams instead of red) Maybach-engined Black and tan with deep tan band, no roundel or bodyside number (233 only) Black with roundel, 2x small numbers behind cabs (both) Black with roundel, 2x small numbers behind cabs, yellow end panels (233 only) Black and tan with deep tan band with roundel, 2x small numbers behind cabs (both) Supertrain (NB did not have GM-style headlights) (both) GM-engined: Black and tan with deep tan band with roundel, 2x small numbers behind cabs (206 only) Black and tan with shallow tan band with roundel, 2x small numbers behind cabs Supertrain NIR Note that there are also some subtle variants of bogie details, train heating provision, multiple working cables etc. We can't expect IRM to do all of those, but hopefully a reasonable selection. My ideal livery shopping list would be: Silver Light green without waistline Black with roundel, 2x small numbers behind cabs Supertrain NIR (maybe)

That would please me greatly.

The roof (apart from the dome) could be either, and I’m considering options. An advantage is the very prominent gutter which allows the roof to be made a separate component without any worries about visible split lines. Also the roof is basically smooth apart from the vents and boiler exhaust, the seam lines are so fine it’s best not to try and model them.

We’re not going to make Glasgow. The badger has staggered to Warrington and failed. Can I make a warranty claim?

I think demand is small, but supply is smaller still. And there can’t be many willing to pay that much. Having come late to the Murphy/IRM party, over the space of a couple of years I’ve been able to buy almost all the models I wanted at reasonably sensible prices. Patience and vigilance were needed. I think a re-release of 071s would only sell well if accompanied by something new for them to haul - proper Irish Mk3s being the obvious option.

I think etched brass has many advantages for the main construction of the chassis and bodyshell - strength, thin so that glazing isn't recessed, less likely to suffer from distortion or build lines. But 3D printing has a major part to play no doubt, much as Rob R says above. I'd add cosmetic bogie sideframes to that list, probably overlaid on etched brass structural frames. Etched brass is also the technology I am familiar with - if people want it 100% 3DP then someone else would need to take the lead. There's a lot of work to do before we can start detailing up any parts, so please be patient.

Welcome to the team!

The drawing with the most comprehensive dimensions is a photo of a rather rumpled original. It is pleasing that drawing up cross-sections and plans based on the quoted dimensions gives something that can be overlaid over other drawings that are flat, but less well dimensioned. This starts to give some confidence in what I'm drawing (in red). A long way to go yet - the proof of the pudding will be when we can produce a 3D 'face' that looks right.

Hi Leslie, I do have Richard's scans, but there aren't many good ones featuring the railcars - mostly livery diagrams of the front ends. Unless I'm missing something? If my work makes IRM produce a model, then great! I think it's unlikely in the present climate, but we'll see.

Sounds like we're doing it in 2 scales... until @DJ Dangerous weighs in with his 7mm scale dreams... I've created a dedicated thread here so it all stays in one place:

I have a long-term plan to develop a model of an AEC Railcar, primarily etched brass with 3D printed components. Others have expressed interest in contributing, including @Rob R and @lucas, so I thought I'd start a thread for the project rather than have it scattered around other threads. As part of my research for my talk on AEC Railcars this autumn, I have been gathering photos of them and I now have an index of about 640 images. Once I've tidied that up a bit, I'll post it here. I've also been gathering drawings from various sources, none are perfect but I think that between them I can develop a reasonably accurate shape. Here I've just pasted them all onto a drawing board. They're not even all to the same scale yet, bear with me (and sadly I don't have the originals to smooth out those folds). If only we had the bodywork jigs and tools that Park Royal offered to Bulleid in September 1954... This is a long-term project, I'll potter away on it from time to time. The first thing I want to do is create an accurate 4mm scale drawing, which is quite a task in itself.

Great, looks like we might have a team coming together. I agree, you haven't quite nailed the shape yet. I only work in 2D but will try and draw some cross-sections that can perhaps be a guide to the 3D model development.

Hi Rob, many thanks, that's great! I was hoping you would be interested. No rush though, I'm at the very early stages of working it out.

Best to ask @Mayner - they are not in regular production but I think they can be etched to order and sent to you? John did a batch last year which is when I got mine.

Here’s a Bachmann 60’ brake first in comparison with the JM etched sides for one like 1906: Volkswagen orange isn’t far off - a bit bright but close.

The older ones can sometimes be got for a tenner. Newer, more detailed versions can be £40 or thereabouts. Here's one I'm hacking at present, with the replacement sides from JM Design. This is a Bachmann one, and not a brake coach, but the principles can be applied to the older stock too. https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/17455-voiding-the-warranty-mols-experiments-in-21mm-gauge/page/23/#findComment-283620 CIE coaches were mostly 61'6" long whereas the LMS coaches were 57' or 60' long depending on type. I'm using the 60' variants.

Stanier period 3 LMS coaches are a good start, and have been made at various price points and levels of detail by Airfix / Mainline / Dapol, Hornby and Bachmann. CIE had quite a variety of brake seconds, some built like that and others converted from composites and all-seconds. None of the LMS types are identical to any of the CIE types, but they're the most promising route for an RTR-butchering approach. To get a better match to CIE vehicles, JM Design did make some etched brass overlays for the sides.

The model design is in very early stages at present - I haven't actually started drawing anything. I'm just thinking about what the main assemblies will be, where the joints and splits will occur and how the parts will be folded, curved and fixed together. In due course I'll need someone to help me with the 3D model of the cab front, but I can provide plenty of cross-sections to form the basis of it. I've been looking at power bogie options too - with various possibilities including diesel power bogies, black beetle, or a custom etch using High Level parts. I have several drawings of the GNR and CIE variants, none of them perfect, but with an index of over 600 photos I'm sure I can develop something that's close enough.