Mol_PMB

Are you an IRRS member and registered to view their Flickr pages? Unfortunately they're not visible to the public. But the archive is so large and useful that we can't ignore it as a resource. Incidentally there are another two new albums uploaded today, some interesting stuff from the 1960s.

Has anyone got any photos of the 42' bogie flat wagons with steel floors built in 1972 - numbers 30091-30098? There's one image in Doyle&Hirsch but it's not very large or clear. They appear to have been based on the normal 42' container flat, with a floor added, but there are other detail differences such as stakes and perhaps some chain pockets. They may also have had fewer ISO spigots - the photo isn't clear enough to tell. I'm wondering about a conversion of a 42' container flat into one of these, but at present I don't have enough information.

The ones built in Derby had a base colour of petunia, with a blue panel each side. I'm glad you have raised the issue though because I had another look at the drawings and I realise there are a couple more white markings I need to put on the roof: This 1983 photo from John Law on Flickr shows a variety of roof colours: 4 x 40' with blue roof 1 x 40' with white roof 4 x 20' with petunia roof 1 x 20' with blue roof (just visible in foreground) 1 x 20' with white roof, but this is one of the ones with no blue at all, just petunia on the sides and ends, like the second one in this 1986 photo by Adrian Nicholls on Flickr: I agree that later on, white rooves predominated:

I can't find the postcard at the moment, it's probably in a 'safe place'... This is a lower-quality cropped version. I'll keep trying to find the original. Another old photo can be seen here: https://www.historicalpicturearchive.com/shop/pictures/kr-00380/ Also from a planning report here's a 1959 photo of CIE delivering some Liebherr crane parts - by road! The railway was still open at this time. https://consult.kerrycoco.ie/en/system/files/materials/116/Fenit Masterplan Final Report.pdf This is a 2002 photo showing the quay in use with a small coaster unloading loose timber: https://www.geograph.ie/photo/2307306 Another cargo that could go by rail in my imaginary world! Moving closer to the present day, here's the end of the line, from a fishing (not phishing) website: And from Pauric Ward on Flickr, a 2011 view of the pier showing the curving track still present, and a ship loading crane components: When using hand-built 21mm gauge track, an advantage here is that it's all buried in concrete!

That's good to know, many thanks. Don't spend any time on it on my behalf just yet, I'm still mulling over ideas. I've just bought a 1967 WTT (not yet arrived). I do have November 1975 and 1978 as well as some 1980s ones. However, even 1975 is a bit late for Fenit as there are no booked workings shown.

I have been doing a bit of modelling as well as planning! The custom transfers I designed at the weekend have now arrived, so I've been lettering some wagons and a container: The petunia-roofed Bell container and its roof lettering are based on the BREL Derby livery drawing for these. I've also printed another set of serial numbers so I can do a second one, once I've ordered it from Arran. The grain hopper wagon lettering is a bit different to that supplied in the kit, but based on a photo. The cattle wagon roof still isn't stuck down... because I've converted it to a fitted wagon I needed a different number and lettering from that supplied. My transfer sheet will also do my NIR ex-GNR brake van, but I haven't applied those yet. All of these now need weathering.

Wonderful - many thanks for the photos which are very inspiring. I'm currently trying to find my 1930's postcard of Fenit Harbour (reproduced in Alan O'Rourke's book) and when I do I will re-scan it and post here.

A sketch of a potential model of Fenit pier in the mid-1980s: The main part is 1750mm long and 450mm wide, including a strip of water both front and back. A 600mm long sector plate with 3 tracks connects at one end. The trackplan is closely based on the real pier, with some longitudinal compression. Minimum curve radius is 900mm with 1:5 crossing angles on the turnouts, which I think is close to what they actually were. There's room for either 4 4-wheel wagons or 2 bogie wagons in both loops and both sidings, and on the sector plate tracks with a loco as well. Thinking it through there's actually quite a lot of operational flexibility. An operating sequence might be: Loco 1 and train A are on the sector plate with the loco at the LH end. Loco 2 and train B are on the sector plate with the loco at the RH end. Train C is in one of the visible sidings or loops on the layout. Train D is in the third road of the sector plate. Loco 1 and Train A leaves the sector plate and arrives on the pier with a train. It shunts that into the vacant siding, running round if necessary. Loco 1 then returns light to the sector plate, and collects Train B. It brings this onto the pier, and shunts around to swap it with Train C. It hauls Train C onto the sector plate, leaving Loco 1 trapped. However, Loco 2 is no longer trapped on the sector plate, because it was released in the previous move. It can now take over the shunting, swapping things around as desired, but make sure it releases Loco 1 before Loco 2 departs onto the sector plate hauling a train. In the 1980s, I'd envisage that the 4 trains might be: pair of bogie container flats 4x 4-wheel container flats mixed freight of a fuel oil tank, a a lowmac and a bogie flat wagon (with deck), loaded with oil drilling equipment bulk powder freight e.g. 4 cement bubbles Turning the clock back to 1970 or thereabouts, a more traditional mix of loose-coupled vans and wagons would predominate. I've been trying to find a copy of that book for months, without success. I don't suppose you have any spares stashed away? I have the other three of the series. I'd love to see some of those photos. I do have a copy of Alan O-Rourke's book on the North Kerry though.

In researching the history I found that the page on the Tralee-Fenit Greenway actually covers the history of the branch line pretty well, so I'll just link that here: http://www.traleefenitgreenway.com/history/ It doesn't say much about the harbour though, which is now the most westerly deep-water commercial port of Ireland and Europe, and still in use. Built in the 1880s around the same time that the railway arrived in Fenit, it served as the port for Tralee. Coal, grain and timber imports were significant, as well as a local fishing fleet. In the 1950s it became apparent that the original timber causeway and pier were in poor condition, and they were renewed in concrete. This was a substantial investment and I suspect the NLI aerial photos were taken to record the completion of the work. Business continued into the 1970s, and the arrival of a cargo ship could keep the railway busy for several days as the cargo was unloaded into wagons. A lot of fish was landed here in the 1970s too; Irish involvement in this declined under EU quotas but French fishing fleets used Fenit until 2006. There was also a bunkering (fuelling) facility for ships here. Rail traffic declined and the line to the pier closed in 1973 (5 years before the rest of the branch). However, shortly afterwards there was the prospect of drilling for oil off the West coast of Ireland, and Fenit was well-placed to support this. As described in this article, and others around the same time, there were great hopes: https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerry/lifestyle/archives-norwegian-ship-arrives-for-fenit-oil/27395865.html This 1980 photo on the pier at Fenit shows a Norwegian oil survey support vessel, and also shows a substantial gantry crane on the pier: Sadly the oil mania didn't last, but Fenit remains a commercial port catering for vessels up to 17,000 Dwt, 175m long. This is primarily for the export of container cranes manufactured by Liebherr's Irish subsidiary, based in Killarney, which are shipped all over the world. There are about 15 shipments per year. This 2012 photo from Francis Foley on Flickr shows a ship departing with crane components: In the photo above, note the double track curving round in the foreground and then running along the pier, with a couple of crossovers. The shed at the far end of the pier is old, visible in the photo of the G class in the previous post, and in Ernie's photo of the ship unloading coal. The pier has been widened in the foreground but the far end with the shed is the same width as it was in the 1950s. This IRRS archive photo dated 1960 is a similar view: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253250554 This 1950s NLI view in the opposite direction makes an interesting comparison: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000731645 In recent years, the harbour has also been developed along the causeway towards the mainland, with a large marina and an extra small pier for fishing boats, as seen in the 2024 Google Maps view below: In diesel days, a variety of locos could work to Fenit (mainland) including A and C class, and several excursions and steam specials also visited Fenit. But the harbour line had sharp curves and there was uncertainty over the weight limit for large locomotives. G class locos were most commonly used but at least one E class was trialled. There were serious proposals to use C class locos onto the pier in the mid-1960s but this doesn't seem to have actually happened, with G class locos remaining in charge until the line closed. The Tralee-Fenit line was not officially abandoned until 2014 and was divested by CIE in 2017; it had been retained for nearly 40 years post-closure, partly because it linked to a potentially strategic port. My idea for a 'what-if' is that the railway line remained open a few years longer, and the oil prospecting in the 1980s was more successful. The railway could have been useful in bringing in supplies for the oil prospecting ships, both bunkers (fuel oil) and other consumables and equipment. The gantry crane shown in the 1980s photos could have handled containers, and perhaps the fish traffic could have gone out by rail. Having proved its usefulness, the railway then remained open through the 1980s. Later it would have probably suffered the same fate as Foynes though. The curve radius onto the pier is about 75m and I reckon 141s and 201(C) class would have been fine with that. Given the constricted space, trains could have been split on the mainland and brought out onto the pier in smaller sections (exactly as happened in the old days with the G class). Maybe 4 4-wheel wagons or 2 bogie wagons at a time. There would have been a fair bit of shunting involved to position the wagons under the gantry or in front of the shed on the pier. Traffic inwards would be containers of supplies for the oil prospecting, and fuel oil for the ships. Traffic outwards could include insulated containers of fish, and imported ship cargoes. With a compacy VIGAN suction handling device, bulk powder cargoes such as grain and cement could be easily transferred between ship and train. Implausible, probably, but fun to think about!

My 'Considering Ennis' thread seems to have been well-received and the feedback has certainly given me something to think about. Plus points are that it's a prototype that matches my preferred period and region, has a personal connection, could probably be made to fit my loft space, would have a variety of interesting operations. Negative points are that the amount of work to convert the loft space is very large, and the layout itself is quite large, so it would take a lot of work. The loft space is not an ideal working or playing environment for much of the year, and temperature fluctuations can cause problems. It's probably too ambitious for my first step in 21mm gauge. Several people have advised something smaller than would fit in the living space of the house. This alternative space for a small layout is 1750mm long and 450mm wide, and would be in the living room. A 600mm long sector plate with 2 or 3 tracks could be added to one end, but this is in a constricted space which does not favour other fiddle-yard options like traverser, turntable or cassettes. So I've been looking at another place for inspiration - Fenit Harbour. I thought this would sit better in a separate thread from the Ennis one. Here's a lovely photo on Flickr, uploaded by Andrew Lance but taken by the late John Powell, probably in the late 1960s: Back in the early 1990s when I first had a go at modelling Irish broad gauge (in EM) I built most of a layout representing Fenit (mainland). I never finished it, partly because I didn't really have the skills at that time, and life moved on. It would be too big for the space available to me now. But Fenit harbour is a much more compact place, and there's a fairly believable 'what-if' to consider. For those unfamiliar with the place, it's on the west coast of Ireland at the end of a branch off the North Kerry line just west of Tralee. This map from the national library of Scotland shows the basic arrangement with a station on the mainland, then a long causeway out to 'Samphire Island' and a sharp curve onto the pier (the photo above is on the pier): Here's one of Ernie's photos on Flickr with the mainland station in the foreground, and the causeway and pier in the background, dated 1960: Walking to the seafront, this view from Ernie shows the causeway a bit better: Crossing the causeway, here's another photo from Ernie, dated 1963, looking from the seaward end of the causeway towards the pier, with a ship unloading coal into open wagons. A couple of vans can also be seen in the background in front of a small warehouse: The NLI archive has some very nice aerial shots of the pier dating from 1955, here's a view from the south showing the pier across the bottom of the picture, Samphire Island on the left, and the causeway to the mainland which is just visible top right: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000733676 So that's the Geography lesson over; in the next post we'll look at the History.

This photo dated 1963 and recently uploaded to the IRRS Flickr archive shows a fitted H van which appears to have the extended buffers typical of a green one. It is quite newly painted and appears to be the same colour all over (and therefore different from the green ones with black ends). https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252986321

Try this, they should all be in there although there are some other Limerick railway images in this search result too: Search Results - limerick A few examples, but there are many more: Holdings: Works 583, Limerick City, Co. Limerick. Holdings: Fitting shop, Limerick City, Co. Limerick. Holdings: Erecting shop, Limerick City, Co. Limerick. Holdings: Locomotive Shop entrance, Limerick City, Co. Limerick.

Nothing wrong with buying two things that look the same. I bet the wife has a pair of matching shoes...

Many thanks, yes, absolutely, just one station further north from Ennis. I'm familiar with his very impressive layout on RMweb. I'm just mulling over an alternative idea for the Fenit harbour line surviving into the 1980s to serve the oil prospecting activities (assuming that they found more oil than they actually did). It seems there was even a modern crane installed, though the railway had closed by then: ARCHIVES: Norwegian ship arrives for Fenit oil | Irish Independent

David, you're right and a smaller layout is definitely more likely to get finished (or even to get started!) It could also be made portable, though I confess I've never really been tempted to show my models at an exhibition. Patrick's layout looks superb, very inspirational. What I'm struggling with at present is that in my preferred 1980-ish period for Irish modelling, it's hard to imagine a plausible prototype for a small layout with good operating potential. Freight traffic was either containerised (so the shunting is with a crane not a loco) or in block trains usually of one or two commodities. Passenger trains tended to be long and infrequent. I still think that my earlier idea of modelling part of Limerick wagon works is a good one, quite compact and an excuse for any type of wagon or loco to turn up. But ultimately it would be just shuffling wagons around rather than with having sort of purpose to the operations. I am also somewhat nervous of the reliability of visually acceptable autocouplings and shunting through handbuilt 21mm gauge pointwork. My alternative space for a small layout is 1750mm long and 450mm wide, and would be in the living room. Potentially a 600mm long sector plate with 2 or 3 tracks could be added to one end, but this is in a constricted space which does not favour other fiddle-yard options like traverser, turntable or cassettes. I'll mull over some ideas. Maybe a harbour scene with facilities for containers and bulk cement exports?

For those who enjoy historic photos of Irish Railways, the IRRS have recently added about 2,400 photos to their Flickr archive, particularly these two albums: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/albums/72177720323015565 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/albums/72177720323050353 They're mostly 1950s with a lot of narrow gauge content, but there are plenty of broad gauge images too from both north and south of the border, and some 1960s photos.

I use a surface coating mix of artex plaster, PVA and brown poster paint, and then on the final layer I sprinkle on the finest grade of brown ballast to add texture. That gives a great basis for the vegetation.

Let's look at some photos from the late 1970s and early 1980s period. Firstly, from John Law on Flickr, we're standing on the road bridge looking south towards Limerick. Passenger station on the right, note the footbridge and station building. The buses mark the position of the former narrow gauge platform. Freight yard on the left. A fertiliser train is on the outer siding, and some container flats on the inner siding under the gantry crane. Also from John Law, now standing on the footbridge looking north towards the road bridge. A southbound bulk cement train is passing through. Note the buffer stop just in front of the bridge, where the goods yard tracks converge and terminate: Stepping down from the footbridge and looking south again (thanks to Loose Grip on Flickr), we can see the line towards Limerick and the various sidings converging on it just beyond the signal box: Walking down the platform and thanks to Ernie on Flickr, here a short liner train arrives at Ennis, with the container gantry crane visible in the yard behind. The old goods store siding is still connected with the points visible just behind the brake van: Now doing a little light trespassing down to the station throat, here's a view of the same area looking north, thanks to Andrew Pullar on Flickr. The loco stands by the signalbox, the former loco shed is on the left with a big steam crane stabled on the former turntable road. Note the disconnected track to the old goods store on the right: Walking a little further south along the tracks, this photo linked from Jonathan Allen on Flickr gives a better view of the throat, former engine shed on the left and the goods facilities on the right: Again from Jonathan Allen on Flickr, we have stepped across into the yard with a nice view of the container handling facilities as well as the modern goods store on the right: And stepping across a bit further into the shadow of the modern goods store, we can see the outer siding (not under the gantry) which was used for palletised freight such as fertiliser and cement: Hopefully that gives a feel for the place!

Here are some diagrams I've drawn to show the evolution of the track layout at Ennis in the 20th century. They are not to scale, but I think they are topologically correct. I have deliberately excluded the narrow gauge lines, and what occurs north of the road overbridge, as that would be the scenic break on my proposed model. The 1904 layout is taken from signalling diagrams for the South Cabin and part of the North Cabin's area too. The North Cabin also controlled the convergence to the single line in the Athenry direction (beyond the bridge) as well as some more sidings in that area. The main passing loop has a platform on each side. Behind the main platform is the loco shed and turntable, while on the other side is the goods store and various other sidings. This layout remained largely unchanged until the 1960s, although there were some minor rearrangements of the goods sidings. The narrow gauge side (not shown) was removed in 1961. In the mid-1970s the layout was substantially altered. The North Cabin was abolished along with the sidings beyond the road bridge; this end of the layout just became a simple convergence of the two loop tracks into the single running line, and was altered to be controlled from the South Cabin. There was no longer any connection to the goods yard at the north end of the station. The goods facilities were modernised with two long sidings, connected at the end to form a run-round loop. A new container gantry crane ran over one of the sidings, while the other served a large new goods store for palletised produce. Initially the old goods store was reconnected (in a different way to previously) and remained in use for traditional goods wagons for a couple of years. This layout remained much the same through the 1980s and 1990s, except that the old goods store was disconnected, and the sidings by the engine shed (now acting as the bus garage) were simplified. The remaining sidings on this side were now used by the PW department, and for the occasional tank of diesel for the bus depot alongside. This is roughly how I would plan to model it, although some compression would be needed. This official IE plan, posted by Fred Dean on Flickr, is dated early 2000s and shows the same basic layout (albeit presented the other way up, and properly to scale):

There are styling differences, and the Cravens is shorter, but the main features and layout are pretty similar. Change a few details and repaint it, and I reckon you would get away with it!

Not perfect by any means, but the Bachmann 'Cravens' DMU has the right sort of 'face'.

Many thanks for your kind words! I think there are lots of interesting stations in Ireland and a personal connection with somewhere is certainly a strong influence. My intention is that it would be 21mm gauge. By using a traverser fiddle yard I can avoid a lot of points, and perhaps would only need 5 or 6 points on the scenic part of the layout. Of course, the trackplan at Ennis evolved over time, and as you say there was once the narrow gauge side too. That disappeared pretty quickly in the early 1960s. Ennis had a significant rebuild in the mid-1970s which involved closing the north signal cabin and simplifying the remaining layout, while adding a new container gantry and goods store to suit large quantities of palletised traffic. Affter that it didn't change much until the 'Western Rail Corridor' rebuilds in the early 2000s. So the infrastructure could represent a range of periods from the end of the loose-coupled freight era in the mid 1970s up to the 1990s. Later I'll collate some photos and plans to show the basic layout at that time. To add to my previous analysis of the Working Timetables in my collection, today I found this interesting description of the gradual re-introduction of passenger services at Ennis in the 1980s: https://branchline.uk/rail_chronology/Ennis.html As well as giving details of dates and workings, this confirms that some of the trains ran direct through to Dublin, others to/from Limerick Junction or Ballybrophy. Some of the direct Ennis-Dublin services comprised lengthy Mk2 AC stock sets, although the one I travelled on was a Cravens set. From looking at photos, there was another occasional freight traffic throughout the 1970s-1990s period - individual fuel oil tankers to the Ennis bus depot in the old loco shed. These could be added to the Ennis liner or other suitable freight. Also, in the mid 1970s the fertiliser trains could be formed of 'back-to-back' swapbodies on 4-wheel flat wagons, rather than the more familiar bogie fertiliser wagons. Thanks! You're right, I do really enjoy the research as well as the modelmaking. It's fascinating to learn about what really happened, as well as about what nearly happened, and sometimes the 'might-have-beens' are more appealing than a model based on a real station which will inevitably have compromises. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

Many thanks - it's good to hear about your experiences as these were some of my concerns about the use of the loft space. I do have one friend who has built a large and complex model railway in his loft, but he put a lot of work into insulating and fitting it out, including a velux window for summer ventilation. It's set fairly low down, ideal to operate and view from a seated position, which partly overcomes the headroom issue, and I would probably do the same. It's a lot of work before even starting to build the model railway! But it doesn't stop me planning...

My childhood memories of Ennis in the mid 80s to early 90s, not all the same year but don't ask me exacly when!

My newest Working Timetable commences July 1990. By this time, there was a twice-weekly passenger service as far as Ennis, in addition to the freights. There are clearly some freight paths which wouldn’t work on Tuesdays and Thursdays when the passenger train runs, although in most cases this isn’t explicitly stated in the WTT. There are few, if any, occasions when more than one train is at Ennis. On weekdays, the trains at Ennis in 1990 can be summarised as follows: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco Limerick – Mayo bagged cement path 06:27 06:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis empty passenger 07:10 NB Tues, Thurs 141 Ennis – Limerick passenger 07:45 SB Tues, Thurs 141 Limerick – Athenry bulk cement path 07:27 07:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis Liner 08:30 NB Mon Wed Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick light engine 08:45 SB Mon Wed Fri 141 Limerick – Ennis Liner 09:30 NB Tues, Thurs 141 Ennis – Limerick light engine 09:45 SB Tues, Thurs 141 Limerick – Mayo fertiliser path 09:57 09:57 NB As req’d 001 Athenry – Limerick empty cement path 12:49 12:49 SB As req’d 001 Galway – Ennis bagged cement path 14:01 SB As req’d 001 Foynes – Ballina coal and oil 14:42 14:42 NB Mon 001 Limerick – Ennis light engine 15:50 NB Mon-Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick Liner 16:00 SB Mon-Fri 141 Galway – Limerick empty cement path 16:17 17:00 SB As req’d 001 Ballina – Limerick empty coal and oil 18:05 18:05 SB Fri 001 Mayo – Limerick empty fertiliser/cement path 19:17 19:17 SB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis passenger 20:30 NB Tues, Thurs 141 Ennis – Limerick empty passenger 20:40 SB Tues, Thurs 141 Westport/Tuam – Limerick bagged cement path 20:52 20:52 SB MWF As req’d 001 The evening passenger train may be an extension of the 17:40 Dublin-Limerick, or a connecting train out of that service. A decade later, the Dublin train definitely ran through to Ennis, often with a pair of 141s hauling the long rake of Mk3 coaches. The morning passenger train would connect with the 08:30 Limerick-Dublin and might be formed of the same set, or just be a connecting train. On Sundays, three paths for Knock Specials are provided; no traction is specified but I think these were usually a pair of baby GMs: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco South – Claremorris special passenger 09:40 09:40 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 10:35 10:35 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 11:35 11:35 NB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 19:28 19:28 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 20:23 20:23 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 21:15 21:15 SB As req’d Overall, in the period that interests me there is some good variety of freight and passenger workings at Ennis. The ‘best’ years are probably the two extremes of the dates I’ve looked at – 1975 and 1990, because they include some regular (if infrequent) passenger trains, as well as a good variety of freight with a mix of 001 and 141 haulage. Over the years I've looked at, freight traffic to or through Ennis included: Traditional loose-coupled freight Beet specials (loose coupled) Fertiliser in bogie wagons Pallet cement in 4-wheel wagons Bulk cement in 4-wheel wagons Liner trains with a variety of containers Containerised coal and oil trains 1978 was definitely the worst year for modellable operations as there were very few trains, all block freight paths booked for 001 haulage, and mostly operating in darkness. In more recent times (well still over 20 years ago to be honest) I have also seen log trains and ballast trains at Ennis. But now, I think there's just the passenger services which have become vastly better than they were before.