Mayner

To get back to Tony's original post came across a colour photo of a Jacobs container in a photo of Phoenix shunting at Strabane in 1959 in Irish Railways in Colour a Second Glance Midland Publishing 1995. . Phoenix is shunting a cut of wagons that includes an open wagon loaded with a Jacobs Container, a CDR or S&LR van and a dropside wagon loaded with what looks like a BR Type A container. Former GNR U Class Lough Melvin has been re-numbered as UTA 65

Apparently the CVR General Manager and some of the Aughnacloy Works staff built a scale model of a Caledonian 4-4-0 in the evenings after work

They would have mainly come on the BR Irish Sea sailings though Belfast Dublin, Rosslare & Waterford Ports. Most traffic from points in Northern Ireland to the South would have been carried in conventional wagon loads, the Donegal was they exception containers were used to overcome the transhipment problem with the break of gauge and to allow Donegal traffic to travel under bond from Dundalk to destinations in Donegal. A lot of the Irish Sea container traffic would have been meat from plants in Munster and the West to the London market and would have had to have been handled smartly by both CIE & BR. Oliver Doyle wrote about weekend specials of meat in containers from the Clover Meats factory in Waterford to Rosslare. Normally the traffic was carried on BR Waterford-Milford Haven service which did not run on Sundays.

It would take a highly skilled pattern maker or 3D modeller to design a pattern or tooling for a large complex loco like a WT. Its possible to produce a wax master for investment casting in metal or a mould for resin casting using 3D printing techniques. http://marksmodelworks.weebly.com/scratchbuilding-aids.html

I look the little touches like the beet loading ramp and small container gantry typical of the era and each an individual wagon load. Looks like things could get a bit hectic during the beet season crossing trains with short loops and no lay-by or headshunt to shunt a train clear of the main line or running loop typical of most secondary main lines!

You could always pretend CIE re-bogied 233 with a spare set of 141 bogies, there is a parallel with the Chicago Rock Island and Pacific which re-built some of its Alco FA units with power units and trucks (bogies) salvaged from scrapped wartime General Motors FT locomotives

A rtr model of a WT is more likely to be a commercial success than an etched brass or composite brass and whitemetal kit. In my experience the proportion of modellers prepared to tackle a metal kit is a small subset of the Irish modelling community. The majority of modellers based in Ireland appear to have a preference for RTR or body line kits suitable for a rtr chassis as the tendency is to model the railways with which they are familiar while overseas (incl modellers based on the British Mainland) modellers of an Irish prototype have a preference for kit and scratchbuilding in order to model the more obscure and unusual incl the steam era and the narrow gauge. A one piece resin body in NCC, UTA or NIR livery designed to fit the Hornby 2-6-4T chassis would be a low risk option and would probably sell well. While fewer people are likely to tackle a more accurate model of a WT based on a set of Worsley Works scratchbuilders parts I would not dismiss the option. Alan Doherty is on record that he is prepared to produce a "kit" if there is demand for 4 or more sets of parts, the WT is essentially an LMS design the majority of the castings may be available from the UK avoiding the need for expensive pattern making and custom casting for boiler fittings and the majority of detail casings.

I was thinking more of the traditional B type furniture or meat containers which CIE tended to load into open wagons rather than the more modern ISO containers. Perhaps Leslie might commission a Lyons Tea or GNR Furniture container

Tim Cramer built an O Gauge model of superheated D14 No 61 in lined green CIE livery and published an article on the "Irish Greyhounds" incl scale drawings in an Irish Modelling special published with British Railway Modelling April 2014. The special included articles with coloured photos on Tony Raggs O Gauge Knockmore Junction & Noel Dodd's Greystones layout a staple of the Irish exhibition circuit during the late 1980s

Of course they did! a weeks supply of fig rolls and cream crackers arriving at Ballinamore on the C&L. Presumably the containers were loaded at the Bishop Street factory and distributed by rail and road throughout the country. Another Irish staple Lyons Tea was shipped by rail for many years in Type B containers in open wagons and later ISO containers http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/5-unit/unitload1.htm

Oil firing tends to work best in locos designed for oil firing, not sure its cleaner than coal from an environmental perspective. Like the GWR CIE converted many locos to oil firing during the 1947 coal shortage, but abandoned oil firing once coal became readily available. One of the problems was excessive boiler/firebox wear on old locos due to a combination of deferred maintenance during the Emergency and the greater stresses from oil firing. The Festiniog fired their locos for many years on waste oil, and more recently diesel before returning to coal firing

The timber wagons were converted from 30501 -30540 bogie container flats during the mid 1990s

Railways have always been a political issue especially when it comes to the taxpayer picking up the tab for a loss making service whether its was in Tyrone or West Cork. It could be argued that Stormont was more responsible in forcing the Irish North West Closure in 1957, than Merrion St wasting public money dieselising lines like Harcourt Street & the West Cork which only to close them 2-3 years later. The Northern government was also quicker in facing up to the underling problems with the organisation of surface transport splitting UTA operations into separate companies 20 years before CIE. The GNR suffered from a poor route structure apart from Dublin-Belfast and Belfast-Cavan most destinations in the border counties could be reached quicker from Belfast or Dublin by road. The GSR & CIE had the advantage of more direct routes and a longer line haul from the South & West to Dublin and Waterford ports which gave rail an advantage over road until the recent construction of Motorways which was not present in Northern Ireland. The Free State quickly established customs barriers diverting trade away from Belfast & Derry ports to Dublin. The GNR eventually took advantage of this transporting freight traffic from Dublin and the East across Northern Ireland under customs bond to Donegal and Sligo. CIEs losses on freight services increased substantially in 1966 after taking responsibility for freight services to Belfast and the Derry Vacuum, which indicates that Stormont had effectively subsidised cross border rail traffic, something that would not have been popular with a large proportion of the electorate. Its all pretty irrelevant from a modelling perspective though like Charlie Haugheys vision of an All-Ireland Police Force and the RUC patrolling in the Republic, the GNR continuing to operate the INW subsidised by Merrion St would have been more palatable to both communities than closure or a CIE take over. Would the lines have continued to function to the present day if political and economic conditions were different is anyone's guess.

Leslie seems to have kept quiet about this one, but shares a similar chassis to the beet doubles Nice looking wagon which fills a large gap in 'modernish" Irish freight stock as the chassis is similar to those used under the Burma and CIE Stores Oil Tank Wagons. The flats seem to have been mainly used for carrying oil and bitumen containers following the widespread introduction of bogie container flats and fertiliser wagons. The Irish Tar & Bitumen containers were similar in design to http://www.meeberg.com/stock-for-sale/stock/6http://www.meeberg.com/stock-for-sale/stock/6 with a steel billboard fixed across the bracing bay at one end with advertising for Irish Tar and Bitumen. Perhaps Weshty might release the container from Ammonia barrier wagon kit as a separate item & with Irish Tar and Bitumen billboards and decal sets.

The Derry Road & the Irish continuing in operation opens up all kinds of scenarios including the GNR continuing in operation and Merrion St quietly underwriting the losses on cross-border freight and passenger traffic maintaining employment in Dundalk Works and reducing the cost of maintaining the Dublin-Derry Road through Monaghan, Louth and Meath. The GNR planned to dieselise freight and heavy passenger trains with German diesel hydraulics, while the 701 BUT railcars were designed to combine and divide en-route which opens up the possibility of combined Belfast-Derry-Enniskllen passenger trains dividing at Omagh or the Enterprise splitting at Portadown with a portions continuing to Belfast and Derry. Its likely that the Derry Road and Omagh-Enniskillen would have continued in operation to the present day had they survived the cuts of 50s or 60s as few lines with a reasonable level of passenger traffic have closed since the late 60s Both CIE & NIR turned to BREL in the 70s and more recently overseas builders, so todays Derry Road trains are unlikely to be radically than anything that ran in recent years on IE or NIR Passenger trains on the Derry Road might have more in common with stock used on the Enterprise than internally in Northern Ireland with the possibility of through trains of coaches from Dublin due to the more direct route than via Belfast and Antrim. Freight traffic is likely to the railhead at Strabane is likely to have remained heavy rather than divided between Sligo and Donegal and require loco haulage rather than being tagged on to an MPD or 80 Class Railcar. An NIR111 Class Co Co with 5-6 MK2 coaches in Enterprise livery connecting with a 2-3 car 80 Class in NIR livery or on lease to IE would be an achievable 1990s scenarios, with IE 071s and Dapol pocket wagons on the Strabane Liner with traffic from an IDA chemical or textile manufacturing plant in Donegal

I think the majority of modellers tend to model the railways they grew up with fewer people remember the steam era, judging by posts on this forum and available and planned RTR models demand is pretty much restricted to locos and stock that ran on CIE/IE between 20-40 years ago. Its telling that the black & tan small GMs did not sell as well as the IE versions and the OO Works UG was only available in UTA colours and did not sell as well as the U although it was a more generally useful loco. The availability of the Murphy Models diesels has probably lead to a greater interest in model railways in Ireland than ever before. The GNR(I) is better provided in terms of good quality kits and scratch builders parts and than the GSR or steam era CIE

I built an E Class using a Shapways body and also had some parts printed to my own design. The E had a lot of added detail including etched overlays, sprung buffers etc but I still haven't got round to finishing the model Each material has its advantages and disadvanages Most 3d printed models need some form of surface preparation the WSF (nylon) used in most 4mm models has no noticeable layers, good surface resolution, downside is a surface texture like smooth sand and cement render or mill scale on steel plate and is best filled with a car spray primer-filler rather than sanding. White Frosted Detail (plastic) mainly used for N has a smooth surface texture, finer resolution for modelling fine detail like beading, and is sandable. Main disadvantage is layers are noticeable and cost.

The Mainline J72 was the nearest thing to an "Official" RTR conversion for the small Midland E Class 0-6-0 tanks or CIE J26 Class. The late Alec Phillips a very talented modeller pioneered the conversion of the J72 into an E Class after struggling to get the early TMD E Class to run. Alec built excellent scratch built models of a DART & a cement bubble in OO & B121 & B141 Class in O Gauge. The J10s or MGWR P Class were built for heavy shunting at the North Wall & banking trains to Liffey Junction , basically a tank version of the Midland Standard Goods. The J11 was a GSWR design and tank engine version of the J15 or 101 Class did similar work on the GSWR system and around Cork. The J11s had slightly rounded edges to the tank tops and an archaic looking cab roof seemingly folded from one piece of iron, nice modelling challenge.

Great to see you taking the initiative to build these locos rather than waiting for a rtr model to arrive. As you modelled B233 its only fitting that you fit it with a Maybach Sound unit same as used in the Western Region Warships and some DB 200 Class locos:)

I will confirm costs once I am in a position to confirm quantities with the supplier. Coach sides were originally priced at $31.00 NZ with the exception of the BSGV at $53.00 NZ when introduced in 2015 and may be subject to currency variation between Stirling & the NZ$ as the engraver is in the UK. Prices do not include Irish or UK Vat or US State sales taxes as exports are exempt. I have cleared out the in box.

There is an undated photo of a light green H Van hiding behind Sambo at Inchacore Works in Irish Railways in Colour a Second Glance" Tom Ferris 1995. Standard un-fitted H Vans 19358 & 19613 are clearly visible in the background in all over mid grey scheme. As far as I recall the 1st batch of fitted H Vans were painted green to run in passenger trains. Apart from P&T some vans were allocated to specific traffic flows including Lamb Bros fruit traffic from Donabate to Amiens Street.

My TPOs are nearly as scarce as the prototype. I should be able to sort you out with one once I have re-jigged the castings in brass

Studio Scale Models may be able to help dzsullivan@eircom.net . They produced an etch for the single lever brake gear used by the GNR, and most Irish railways

Nice job Noel, you seem to be taking to painting and lining like a duck to water. The "dipped orange" scheme was a classic as the As & Cs were re-motored while the Crossley enginned locos soldiered on in a mainly black scheme with white chevrons above the cabs and sometimes a small yellow warning panel.

More large scale stuff, working in the larger scales seems to take almost as long as working on a 12" -1' railway or maybe I am slowing down. Despite the garden railway operating reliably for nearly 10 years some major issues cropped up as I converted from LGB/Bachmann Big-Haulier to more accurate 1:20.3 American 3' gauge locos and rolling stock. This arose mainly as a result of a combination of longer larger freight cars and locos with body mounted couplers and finer profile wheels on some older Accucraft freight cars bought on e-bay. Basically freight cars and loco tenders turning over & de-railed while running through crossovers laid with LGB 3rd radius points in the storage yard in the garden shed, while the finer profile wheels tended to split the points if the blade was not tight up against the stock rails. Luckily stock ran smoothly through the Sunset Valley No4 and No6 points and crossovers used on the main line. Once I understood the problem I replaced part of the point ladder in the storage yard with No4 points while leaving a pair of LGB points in place as a temporary connection to a loco spur pending the arrival of more points from the States. Before LGB points used in crossover between No 3 & 4 Roads temporary infilling piece between No 2 & 3 Road. Trains could run through this at low speed, but tended to de-rail on the frogs and split the points. After crossover re-laid with Sunset Valley No 4 points The yard is laid with heavier rail than the points transition clamps are used to join the tow rail profiles. The spur on the right leads to a function turntable and loco yard at right angles to the main yard. I may convert these points to remote pneumatic operation at some stage. The problem with locos and cars splitting the points on the main line was due to the older Sunset Valley switch-stands having insufficient throw to ensure that the point blades were pushed tight up against the switch stands. More recent switch stands are fitted with a grub screw to adjust the throw. I modified 8 switch stands over a weekend using a Unimat SL set up as a milling and boring machine. Before fitting the adjusting screw it was necessary to mill the end off the switch stand throw bar, then bore out and tap the remaining stub. Sunset valley supplied an imperial tap and enough adjusting screws to complete the converstion. Before mixture of unmodified and modified switch stands Switch stand set up in milling machine Converted switch stand with adjusting screw I installed and tested the modified switch-stands over the Easter Weekend so hopefully this should open up more time to concentrate on Irish small scale stuff. We had a damp humid summer followed by the tail end of two cyclones in recent weeks and a breeding ground for mosquitos, the insect repellent just about made it bearable.