Mayner

Put me down for one pleeze Des. Always seemed to be one waiting at Island Bridge Junction, when I made the weekly Saturday morning pilgrimage on the 23 bus to Southern Model Railways and Monck Place in my early teens. Happy days!

I was thinking mainly in terms of braking power while working heavy loose coupled trains. The WR found that the Warships had insufficient braking power for loose coupled trains, the B101 and A Class were preferred to the Baby GMs which were considered too slippy for goods work. In Diesel Dawn Colm Flannigan speaks about 800-1000 hp locos capable of hauling a 600ton freight train at 30-35mph or a 180 ton passenger at 70-75mph with 40 for the GNR and 16 for the UTA Whether this would have allowed sufficient margin to double head Dublin-Belfast and Derry Road freights before the widespread closure of secondary lines is open to question. While the GNR relied on 4-4-0s & 0-6-0s there is little evidence of Midland style regular double heading of heavy goods and passenger trains. The classic photos are large 4-4-0s with 6-8 coaches on single headed on the climb to Father Murphy's Chappel or on Carrickmore Bank. Its possible some GNR traffic and engineering people may have been influenced enough by European practice to realise that modern fully fitted wagons would be needed as part of an ever expanding wish list to Stormont and Merrion Street.

One of the more ironical things about the closure of the Derry Road was that Stormont killed of a potentially profitable rail freight operation. Freight traffic under customs bond from Dundalk to Strabane for County Donegal was very heavy with two or more nightly trains up to closure. Strabane was in modern terms an inland port for Donegal with County Donegal Railway (CDRJC) road services operating passenger and freight services radiating from Strabane to most of Donegal. CIE only took over from the CDR in 1972. IThis could have opened up a scenario of the Derry Road staying open as far as Strabane for Donegal freight traffic with an IWT style operation, if the politicians were pragmatic enough or even passenger services through to Foyle Road cross-subsidised by freight access charges. Possibly Donegal freights operated by CIE or even the CDJR on running powers from Dundalk. The CDJR running leased 001, 071 or Hunslets in Donegal red and cream livery ;)just like the leased CIE busses in the 1960s JHB The German 1000hp diesel hydraulics just don't add up for working heavy loose coupled goods trains single headed over the more hilly sections of the main line or Derry Road. Building new loco maintenance works at Adelaide and buying tower cabbed English Electric A1A A1As would have been more politically acceptable in Northern Ireland than subsidising jobs in the Free State and possibly swayed the powers that be more in favour of keeping the railways.

The accountability that the information however trivial represents is the life blood of any democracy "Ministerial Servicing" is taken very seriously in most democracies. Depending on the quality of information there is a potential for both the Minister and Public Servant to be serviced. When a question is tabled for question time its basically a case of dropping whatever you are doing sometimes at very short notice and finding the answer for a ministerial question however seemingly trivial or forget about your career prospects as a public service. The Cardinal sin is supplying a minister with less accurate information than the opposition already have and probably result in a transfer to Antartica or the Blasket Islands. We tend to treat freedom of information more seriously than in Ireland all requests have to be processed free of charge within 20 days or face similar reprecussions.

Worsley Works produce sets of scratchbuilders parts for the Laminate 1449-1496 64 Seater Standard open and the 1908-1913 main line Brake Standards Worsley Works Laminate Brake on temporary bogies finished with Comet Castings SSM decals Hopefully Des is about to announce the correct 8' Irish lightweight Commonwealth Bogies

As you live in the States it would probably be a better option to use NMRA track and wheel standards and use Walthers or Atlas track rather than than Peco. Both systems and nearer to full size than Peco in terms of geometry & sleepers look less stubby than Peco. Murphy Models, Bachmann and modern Hornby wheel profiles are based on an NMRA standard and a gauge is readily available for checking back to backs and other critical dimensions. Full size point are specified in terms of switch length and crossing angle and the same principal applies regardless of gauge full size or model. A HO 1:4 point is similar in overall length to a Peco medium radius point a 1:6 to Peco large radius. I installed some full size point and crossing work on a narrow gauge line in the UK we found that 1:6 was the minimum for a 2-6-2T loco and bogie coaches 1:4 for 4 coupled locos and wagons.

I like the crossing keepers cottage, they were such a feature of the Waterford-Lismore line. All that's needed is herself looking after the gates a lineside vegetable garden and washing line

The MGWR and GNR amalgamating is an interesting one opening up the possibility of greater competition between Belfast and Dublin for cattle traffic from the Midlands and West to either Belfast or Dublin and competition with the GSWR for freight traffic to Limerick. Amalgamation of the two companies and take over the SLNCR would have opened up the prospect of through Belfast & Sligo passenger services, extending the Belfast-Cavan passenger trains to Mullingar. A bit like the LNER woks at Doncaster and Darlington it would have made sense to let Broadstone and Dundalk continue overhauling and re-building existing classes until larger more powerful locos were needed. Amalgamating with the MGWR would have probably strengthened the financial position of the GNR and put off the question of nationalisation for a few years. The GNR was in a worse financial position than the GSR in the 1930s, the MGWR lines from Dublin to Galway, Westport and Sligo were likely to have been more profitable, than the GNR Derry Road and Cross Country lines in Northern Ireland, operating in a monopoly position with heavy livestock traffic and a much longer line haul

The main issue is the limited demand for kits the majority of modellers appear to be prepared to pay a premium for a rtr Irish model regardless of quality of the finished article or whether a better model can be built from a kit. The market for kits is a very small sub-sector of the market for Irish models. Etched kits tend to have a lower break-even point than resin or cast metal kits, the market for kits is split roughly 60/40 between Ireland and the UK. The majority of customers in the UK model Irish railways tend to be builders rather than collectors a high proportion work to EM or S4 standards and prefer to select their own running gear, buffers, wheels, couplings. Worsley Works business model producing etched parts only has a much lower break even point than a kit manufacturer and can produce a set of parts for a coach or Loco where there may not be enough demand to produce a kit or rtr model.

JHB any idea when goods trains stopped running to Abbeyfeale? The last services to Newcastle West, Ardee, Loughrea and over the Burma Road are all well documented, but nothing on when the Tralee-Abbefeale goods was cut back to Listowel. The daily Limerick-Tralee goods train was replaced by Limerick-Newcastle & Tralee-Abbeyfeale goods trains in the early 70s and the line over Barnagh closed to regular services, but was open for specials and as a diversionary route

Do, did operating staff refer to a train by it number or by time-direction and destination? The Weekly Notices and the Appendix to the Working Timetable were a real mine of information, for special and engineers trains, temporary speed limits and other information. One included operating instuctions for loading and unloading Pallet Cement wagons including an isometric drawing

I don't think anyone at the time on CIE or NIR could see the need for considerably more powerful locomotives. Like the Midland Railway in the early 1900s CIEs plans in the early 70s were based on a fast frequent train service with a small number of uprated 001 Class uprated for Dublin-Tralee trains. This policy unravelled following the 1st oil crisis double heading and more powerful locos required to keep time with less frequent, heavier trains as traffic increased with fewer people emigrating. The Hunslets make sense against the loadings at the time, the locos were similar in H.P.and tractive effort to the rebuilt A Class. The idea of Top & Tail working may have been based on the Edinburgh-Glasgow services of the same era where MK2 coaches topped and tailed by Class 27 locos replaced railcar services. The NIR management did well to convince their political masters of the need for the new train and that rail had a future. The introduction of the Enterprise and re-opening of the Belfast Central Line was a real turning point in the history of the railways in Northern Ireland.

It looks like the brickworks had a siding at one stage http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,679660,795462,11,9. Loading wagons on the running line may have started after the ending of passenger services in the late 1940s. John O'Meara wrote papers on the Meath Line that were published in the IRRS Journal one in the 1950s and a second more recently. Brick traffic seems to have been carried in standard open wagons, the railway would have gone by the 1970s when bricks were delivered direct from the works to construction sites using trucks with mechanical grabs. Gypsum (in opens and hoppers)seems to have been the only traffic handled when I travelled over the line in an IRRS special in 75 or 76, though it looked like the goods shed had been recently used for bagged cement traffic. Navan (GNR) looked very busy at the time with bagged cement (in H Vans) and Guinness traffic.

Skip to the ran sequence around 2:07 The Great Train Robbery was filmed in 77 or 78 with 184 & 186. 184 had a staring role disguised as a English South Eastern Railway 2-2-2 complete with dummy double frames. Most of the movie was filmed around Castletown on the Mullingar-Athlone line, with Moate as Ashford and Heuston temporarily re-named London Bridge. 184 was overhauled in Mullingar for the movie, both locos worked for several years in South Eastern livery and The American loco looks like something that slipped in during editing.

Reminds me of the Irish Rovers song which almost made me cry as a kit it was so so sad These days our house is crammed full of Unicorns, Alicorns and Peguases thanks to a little person and My Little Pony

The Belfast Central scheme was mentioned in E M Patterson's "Ballymena Lines" The BCR obtained an Act to build a 3' gauge line to Ardoyne, a separate company the Ballyclare, Ligoneil and Belfast Junction obtained an Act to extend the line from Ardoyne to Doagh possibly linking up with the Ballymena & Larne narrow gauge. Not to be outdone the Londonderry and Larne Railway had plans for a line from Ballymena through Portglenone across the Sperrin Mountains through Dungiven and Claudy to Derry City. This could have opened up the prospect of Fish Trains from Burtonport to Larne

The Crossley engine in the WAGR locos were supposed to have been an earlier version to that fitted to the A Class and Co Bos . Interestingly the Australians de-rated the engines which seem to have solved most of the problems and the relatively long life of the locos. http://www.railpage.com.au/locos/x-class-diesel-wa Apart from the Metrovicks Western Australia seem to buy locos in small batches from different manufacturers including Alco, English Electric & GM. Not sure why they went for the 2-Do-2 wheel arrangement, possibly difficulty fitting the traction motors between the wheels on the narrow gauge, as far away as possible from dust on Outback lines or possibly track better on very light rails on branch lines. All later classes were conventional Australian double bogie designs

I like the photo of Drew Donaldson's locos with an 800 Class lurking inside the shed while the MGWR 2-4-0 with flyaway cab tries to look inconspicuous between the ex-WLWR & GSWR 4-4-0s. There is a story that museum staff thought Blanche's boiler and dome were black when the loco 1st arrived but found red paint under the soot and muck. In most colour photos from the 50s the red cladding can be seen grinning through the muck though the domes seem to have an almost satin back finish just like the preserved loco!

For an idea of what the CIE A Class originally sounded like a series of videos of Western Australian Metrovicks on suburban passenger duties a late as 1986. [video=youtube;c3L-XaV66Ds] Perhaps maintenance was better, but the most striking thing is the lack of the smoke screen seen in photos and videos of the Irish Metrovicks. The State Government would have been reluctant to invest in re-building or replacing the Metrovicks as lines were closed or converted to standard gauge

The upper section of the Ratio 500 & 503 may be based on a standard Railway Signal Company rather than a GWR design and is close in general appearance to cabins used by the GSWR, MGWR & WLWR. Gort, Killucan, Mallow South and Roscrea come to mind. http://www.ehattons.com/40599/Ratio_500_GWR_Signal_Box/StockDetail.aspx It might even be possible to combine several kits to model larger cabins such as Athlone West or Galway http://www.signalbox.org/overseas/ireland/athlonewestjcn.htm The Irish boxes tended to have brick bases with relatively small windows in the locking room. Lamp oil would usually be stored in a separate lamp room http://www.ehattons.com/40386/Wills_Kits_SS22_Lamp_huts_with_2_oil_drums/StockDetail.aspx. The railway company did not want a stray fag end or ember from the fire causing an explosion in the locking room.

Well done the rivet detail and plasticard overlays really capture the angular look of these locomotives.

The detailing always seems to be the slowest part of any modelling project. Great step by step on what's involved in scratch building a loco.

You might of hit the jackpot Minister the horizontal tie-bar through the framing seems to be a common feature on CBSCR covered goods wagons. I have seen grounded bodies of GSWR, GNR & GSR vans with aluminium sheeting sandwiched between the framing and planking. This may have been an economy measure to use a lower grade of timber for body planking.

Rich You have really captured the atmosphere of the station buildings. I spent a very enjoyable day about 20 years ago taking photos of the buildings at Kingscourt and Athboy. Kingscourt could make a very attractive model as a terminus or as a through station, there were even plans at one stage to extend the line to Carrickmacross and Armagh. I have drawn a sketch of the track layout before it was rationalised in the 80s. Gypsum was unloaded directly from tipper trucks into railway wagons from a raised concrete ramp and turntable arrangement, wagons seem to have been positioned by a winch arrangement rather than loco. The gypsum loading ramp and turntable seems to have been on the site of the cattle bank or possibly cattle shed road, which was slewed over and the loco shed demolished There are some nice photos of this end of the station in GSR days complete with ex MGWR Standard Goods & 6 wheel coaches in Donal Murrays "Great Southern Railways" pictorial Iain Allen 2006 The slip points on the crossover to the goods yard is almost a MGWR trademark Edenderry & Athboy had a similar arrangement, the slips may have been replaced by turnouts in CIE days. Although the loco shed was demolished the turnout from the loop to the loco yard is probably still in place. The loading of wagons on the running line at the brickworks loading bank was the biggest oddity at Kingscourt. Brick traffic was important into CIE days and the crane on the loading bank was locked by the Kingscourt-Nobber later Wilkinstown section staff. Passenger trains ran to and from Broadstone and later Amiens St with a 650 Class or a Midland Standard Goods and a few 6 wheelers. Services were fairly sparse usually morning and evening and the occasional mid day train. The Kingscourt goods was scheduled for steam operation into the late 1950s with large Midland (j5) or GSWR (J4 or possibly J9) working the 3 trice weekly goods. Traffic from Kingscourt was diverted to run over the GNR line and Clonsilla-Junction Navan closed to regular traffic apart from cattle specials from LIffey Junction to Drumree & Kilmessan before complete closure in 1963

Fair play to Pat, Stephen, Fran and Richie for their initiative and being prepared to take the risk with commissioning a rtr wagon. The ballast hopper is an excellent choice and hopefully generate the critical mass in terms of sales to finance the development of the cement bubble. A bit modern for my taste but very difficult to resist.