Mayner

Hi Tony I had to do a double take when I saw the photo of diesel No21,I did not realise the IOMR had an American diesel . No 21 seems to be based on a standard General Electric (GE)design, GE built a number of 3' gauge end cab units of similar size in the 1950s an interesting might have been if CIE, the Donegal or IOMR had gone shopping for American 3' diesels in the 1950s. [video=youtube;Xuyi2N-v7RA]

The selection of Irish/Isle of Man 4mm (OOn3) loco and rolling stock kits is quite limited. Backwoods Miniatures dropped the Irish 3' range several years ago. Sales of Irish models was poor compared to OO9 & American narrow gauge kits and imported brass rtr models. The owner Pete McParlin had not got around to updating the OOn3 section of the web site and may have retired and sold the business. Branchlines P.O. Box 4293, WESTBURY, BA13 9AA, UK Tel./Fax: +44(0)1373 822231 Mon.-Thurs. 9.30-13.00, 14.00-18.00 prefer t do business by phone or post rather than electronic media Branchlines may still produce kits for Isle of Man locos and coaches. The loco kits should be reasonably straightforward to build combining whitemetal bodies with nickel silver chassis. The kits were originally manufactured by GEM in the 1960s, and updated by Branchines in the 1990s with a more up to date chassis and drive system. Branchlines also produced an etched kit for the Tralee and Dingle Hunslet 2-6-0T loco, the kit was challenging to construct in OOn3 due to very tight clearances between the driving wheel, coupling rods and valve gear. Rolling stock included some very nice and reasonably straight forward kits for Tralee and Dingle and Clogher Valley coaches (CVR). The CVR coaches were very popular and usually built in OO9. The wagon situation is somewhat better Parkside-Dundas produce a number high quality plastic kits for Tralee& Dingle van and open wagons. The OO9 Society commissioned Parkside to produce two separate designs of T&D cattle wagons. Foxrock Models (Simon deSuza) http://newirishlines.org/2009/06/20/news-and-views/ produces a number of resin and etched brass for C&L coal wagons and ex Passage brake vans.. Worsley Works produce a large range of scratchbuilders parts for Irish narrow gauge including parts for some locos and coaches for the majority of 3' lines, but are not really suited for the beginner. You could follow the example of the late the David Lloyd author of Modeling the Irish Narrow Gauge, David built a very nice collection of static steam locos in plasticard and used Bemo diesels to haul the trains on his Coolcalaghta West Cork narrow gauge layout.

Trying to model Irish broad and narrow gauge with 00 & 00n3 or even HOn3 on the one layout is going to be challenging, it might be simpler to follow Merv Smith's example and go complexly freelance and use Liliput or Minitrains locos and stock in an Irish setting. Merv Smith used HO9 to model a narrow gauge coal carrying line in a distinctly New Zealand South Island/West Coast setting in terms of scenery, vegetation, engineering and building practice. The last of the common carrier Irish narrow gauge lines closed more than 60 years ago. A system linking Ireland, the Isle of Man and the British mainland had it existed or survived would be radically different from the Irish or Isle of Man systems and might equally have followed European or American practice.

The Tegral factory in Athy manufactured asbestos cement and later fibre cement products including water mains, wall and roof cladding. http://www.tegral.com/index.php?page=about-us Rapid hardening Portland cement with a more finely ground clinker was likely to be used in the manufacturing process, hence the need for a dedicated rake of wagons for the Tegral traffic. Depending on whether you take 1960 or 64 as the starting point the CIE "Standard" 20' flat wagon chassis evolved over a period of between 8 & 12 years, there is likely to be considerable difference in chassis detail between individual batches of bulk cement wagons. The running gear in the photo of the MPD shunting at Derry is similar to the flat wagons introduced in the early 1960s. The wagon is fitted with 8 shoe clasp brake gear with a handwheel to operate the handbrake similar to fitted H Vans, Cattle Wagons and Flats all intended to run as tail traffic on passenger and mail trains. CIE may have retro-fitted the initial 1964 batch with lever brake gear to bring them into line with the rest of the wagon fleet and reduce maintenance costs. Still an interesting variation for someone who likes to customise their wagon feet.

Flange Lubricator Its possible the wagon in the photo is one of the original 1964 batch, the hand brake arrangement is similar to the Guinness container wagons and other vacuum fitted wagons built in the late 1950s early 60s. The 12t container wagons/flats were later converted to PWD use.

Nice work David The 6 wheel saloon with its peeling fading paintwork was always a favourite of mine. I remember reading some where that the SLNCR manager was embarrassed at the standard of coach paintwork in the mid-50s as the company had to rely on a wagon painter and no doubt did not have the money to pay for an experienced painter or the paint. I am thinking of trying the David Jenkinson method for some MGWR 6 wheelers, though I am not sure if Evergreen do a small enough half round strip for 4mm beading

For someone without the money/space Individual and short cuts of bubble wagons were sometime marshalled in loose coupled goods trains in the transition era from loose coupled to liner trains. This seems to have been common enough on cross border goods trains to Belfast and Derry and the Limerick-Claremorris goods. In individual wagon loads of bulk cement may have been transferred direct from rail to road bulk cement tanker in Ballina or Derry for major projects such as the Asahi plant in Killala.

There is evidence that AEC railcars hauled ex GSWR clerestory stock. There is an April 1953 photo of an newly introduced 2616 & 2617 with what looks like an ex GSWR clerestory roofed diner as intermediate coach on an up Waterford passenger at Portarlington in Anthony Burges "Chasing the Flying Snail" colour point books. The railcar set is also hauling a 6w van. The supply of engine and transmission parts for the AEC railcars became a major problem that eventually lead to their withdrawl. Leyland seems to have failed to understand railway asset life and the potential market for spares, New Zealand Railways had to re-engine a class of 52 heavy shunting locos with Cummins engines when Leyland ceased to supply engine parts after less than 10 years

I am sure if you ask nicely SSM may be able to supply the correct pattern ventilators or even a complete coach kit.

The term "Long Toms" was used by both Drew Donaldson and Jack O'Neill in a "Decade of Steam" to describe the inside cylinder 4-6-0s. The term was also used by Jeremy Clements and Michael McMahon in GSR Locomotives. Drew was likely to have met and Jack have worked with men that had fired or driven the 362 Class. The Long Toms rode like buckling broncos and crews with dentures removed them before a trip. They had all gone by 1931 but not before they had broken the hearts and a few bones of the unfortunate crews that had to man them. The K3s and K4s, which had piston valves and a long sloping firebox, were easy to fire and light on coal. They were very powerful and had a good turn of speed, being used occasionally on the Cork-Rosslare Boat Trains Jack O’Neill “A Decade of Steam While nicknames were probably rarer than the UK the NCC had it Whippets and Jeeps, CIE/IE Yanks and Yankee Engines individual GSWR/GSR/CIE Woolworth/Woolwich individual steam locos had nick names Waterford's Nelson & Three Little Ducks

Harry Funny enough how taste and perception changes, at one time I though the Inchacore styling of the GSR era was the bees-knees, but now I prefer the combination of power and elegance of the Coey-Maunsell era and big 4-4-0s with tapered round top boilers nothing like them in Ireland or the UK. Any to the Long Toms there were 6 supposedly nicknamed after a Boer artillery piece used in the Second Boer War, co-incidentally the GNR 0-8-0 of the same era built under Henry Ivatt, Robert Coey and Richard Maunsell's former boss at Inchacore were also nicknamed long Toms. The Coey locos seem to have had more in common appearance wise with Crew than Doncaster in design, though mechanically the Irish locos were totally different and in certain respects more modern 362-367 were designed for heavy goods work, the 4-6-0s appear to have shared common parts including wheels, motion and possibly firebox with the 355 & 368 Class inside cylinder 2-6-0s. The wheels were the same size as the J15 or 101 so not really suitable for mixed traffic work. Its to the Coey and Maunsells credit that they quickly rebuilt the 355 Class into an inside cylinder 2-6-0 and followed up with the 368 Class rather than inflict more 4-6-0s on the operating department. The GSWR & GNR (England) Long Toms seem to have been nicknamed after a Boers artillery piece in the Second Boer War. The Long Toms were built during an era when the majority of British engineers were struggling to design a 4-6-0 that would work, it says a lot about the calibre of management in the Coey-Maunsell era that they quickly developed the inside cylinder 2-6-0 rather than build more 362 Class 4-6-0s on the operating Department once the problems with poor tracking and rough riding were identified. 1948 CIE Running Dept assessment of the 355 & 368 inside cylinder 2-6-0s “Very useful heavy goods engine, powerful and with a low axleload enabling them to be worked over many lines. A type that should have been developed”. The 500 Class 4-6-0s Woolwich Moguls appear to have made the 362 Class 4-6-0s and some of the 355 & 368 Class 2-6-0s redundant. The GSR had a surplus of heavy goods locos, and it would have been difficult to justify re-building the 362s while scrapping similar locomotives.

Years ago I motorised a MIR A Class using the trucks, motor and drive shafts from an Athearn SD9 mounted on a chassis built from KS brass section, I shortened the drive to fit in the A Class by removing one of the flywheels. The RSD 4-5 is shorter than an SD9 and the trucks unequal axle spacings similar to the A Class

The demand for Irish kits of this nature is very limited, the next stage is to establish if there is enough demand to release the loco as a complete kit or simply the etched parts with the builder sourcing wheels, castings etc. It should be feasible to build a few as rtr models, the main problem is finding the time to complete other unfinished projects.

The 362 Class 4-6-0s or Long Toms built in 1905 were an attempt to overcome the problem with excessive weight with the 355 Class 0-6-0s built two years earlier. The Long Toms were considered to be a failure, the bogie tended to derail and they had a reputation of rough riding. The GSWR settled on inside cylinder 2-6-0 wheel arrangement including the rebuilding of the 355 class as 2-6-0s until the building of the 500 Class outside cylinder 4-6-0s locos that were state of the art by the standards of the 1920s.

Come to think of it Tramore pretty much ticks most of the boxes for suburban rather than branch line or local service. Heavy traffic, short distance, frequent service, smarty timed trains. The AEC railcar set supplied did not have the seating capacity to handle the peak traffic carried by the steam hauled stock.

A J26 would be pretty much ideal for the DCDR or short heritage line, it just might be possible to kit-bash an Argadeen from a small Hunslet or Manning Warde 0-6-0 if you can get one, its possible a set of patterns may exist for a scratch build. The J26 have been described as the Irish equivalent of the Brighton Terrier tank loco, but were closer in size and power output to the LNER J67-69 family of tank locos (GER Buckjumper) and the LNER J72 class. Some of the GER locos were built to compete with the electric tramways on short distance suburban services out of Liverpool Street including Enfield , they were well suited to suburban work with their small wheels and the entire engine weight available for traction. The GSR may have been reluctant to try the J26 on suburban trains as both the DSER and GSWR both preferred 2-4-2T and 4-4-2T for passenger work and were unlikely to have considered a small 0-6-0.

Its hard to believe that its over two years since I started this thread and not so hard to believe I still haven't finished the locos:rolleyes: I am updating the artwork to include inside non-working valve gear, but haven't had a chance to look at the drawings since July. The gear is based on the Beyer Peacock GA of the earlier D Class 2-4-0 although the K Class cylinders are further forward of the leading axle and motion bracket than the earlier locos. I will have to have a close look at the valve gear on my large scale Mogul or a full size loco to position the eccentric rods even half right. I have used the same CAD programme for over 10 years and I am still learning and discovering new short cuts and features

Ranks & CIE grain wagons Sligo late 60s © David Malone David recalls that the Ranks wagon was in grey with white lettering. At this stage the wagons may have been in use for grain traffic from Ferns to the Mill at Ballysodare. This probably explains why the redundant wagons were stored at Wicklow Junction when CIE gave up on wagon load operation.

Achill, Athboy, Ballinrobe, Balldaghdreen, Clifden, Courtmacsharry, Edenderry, Fenit, Killeshandra, Loughrea, Shillelagh, Tramore to start with. Unlikely to have been used on ex-GSWR branch lines with the possible exception of Banagher which became a-defacto branch in GSR days with Mullingar or Athlone supplying the branch loco

In the day job I spend a fair amount of time inspecting car body shops for health and safety and dangerous goods compliance. The majority still use solvent (xylene or toluene) rather than water based paint systems. Acute solvent exposure can lead to brain damage, some car painters have literally lost their marbles The really dangerous ingredients tend to be in the two pack clears or laquers and the primer fillers or bogs. The 2 pack clears contain isocyanates which are completely different from cyanide, the principal health risk is occupational asthma. Some of the bogs or primer fillers and lead based pigments (some yellows, blacks and reds) which can cause cancer. Bake ovens are used with both solvent and water based systems, the purpose of the oven is to speed the drying and harden the paint finish. The insurance companies largely dictate the rates for body repair work forcing out the smaller shops, the few that survive tend to depend on restoration and often tend to be run more as a hobby than a business, with more unfinished projects than the average modeller. The European based manufacturers have been gradually phasing out the most harmful ingredients, but I have had some interesting surprises reading the SDS from some Dutch and German based manufacturers.

Funnily enough reliable operation during leaf fall was supposed to be one of the major advantages of the 121 hauled MK3 push-pull stock over railcars on the Drogheda suburban trains. Oliver Doyle wrote about placing the loco at the North end of the train and propelling towards Dublin was to reduce wheel slip on up morning suburban trains. The coaches of a 5 or 6 coach set was supposed to crush and fragment the leaves/ice, and the loco theoretically running in idea rail conditions.

Just to confuse things further some of the GSR built grain hoppers were company wagons and appeared iin GSR ad later CIE livery. The Ranks wagons were private owner and were lettered Ranks Ireland Limited I have seen a colour photo of one of these wagons in red oxide with broken wheel logo on the scrap line at Mullingar in the late70s Ranks used these wagons between the elevators at Alexandra Road, Limerick Careys Road and Clara Mill, the wagons also appeared to run in CIE days to grain elevators in Ardee.

The small rectangles beside the rear spectacle plate appear to be the Waterford and Tramore bunker sides. More in the way off a set of scratchbuilders parts than a complete kit. The safety valve and smoke box door castings are suitable for the period from building up to re-boilering immediately prior to WW1, when the locos appear to have been fitted with more conventional smokebox doors, ejector pipework and ross pop safety valves, but retained their long cast Iron funnels and smoke box wrapper flush with boiler cladding. The later GSR style riveted smokeboxes and built up chimneys appear to have been fitted during the Emergency. Great Southern Railways by Donal Murray (Ian Allen) has several photos of these locos on branch line workings in GSR days.

I have two of these locos the 1st built nearly 30 years ago with the original brass chassis which actually works, the 2nd with the revised n/s chassis awaiting a new set of coupling rods. Assembling these kits is probably nearer to scratchbuilding without having to cut out the metal than a modern kit with pre-formed parts, slot and tab construction and multi layer detail. Both the original and revised frames are unusual in that they were designed to be assembled with the axle bearing for a rocking or sprung axle running in a slot or circular hole in the main frame, rather than separate etched or cast hornblocks commonly used in 4mm scale modelling practice. The original chassis may be a better starting point for a sprung chassis than the later n/s version The original brass chassis appears to have been designed with slots for a standard 1/8" top hat or compensated bearing. I used Sharman Flexichassis Brushes for a compensated chassis. The loco is a reasonably good runner despite a 30 year old DS10 motor and a slight waddle, which indicates that the original drafting of the artwork was accurate. The later n/s chassis was designed for compensated assembly using top hat brushes and equalising beams. I found that the axle holes for the rocking axles were etched oversized for the collar of a 1/8" top hat bearing. The coupling rods appear to be different centres and more fragile than the original brass version, I managed to destroy one of the rods during the final stage of assembly of the second loco I will probably get around to finishing it some day. If you fancy a day at the races as far as I recall parts for the extended W&T cab roof and sides are in the fret, and I may have a suitable riveted smokebox somewhere.