Mayner

I had an interesting get together with a group of 3D Modellers and kit designers on the weekend. The majority are either professional designers who produce 3D models or CAD work for a living, others have considerable design and drafting experience with access to professional design software such as Solidworks at around $17k a copy. While there is some satisfaction with seeing your models on other peoples layouts, I don't think any of us would be happy with a manufacturer producing a pirate copy of one of our designs. A lot of he interesting stuff is happening around using Shapeway models as patterns or lost-wax castings rather than traditional pattern making. The work involved little different from cleaning up or machining an iron casting.

The main visual difference is that the CIE wagons had sliding doors and the brake gear is simpler than BR. The sliding door and runners are easiest to sort out with some plasticard and micro-strip. Its worth while checking out Brian Flannigan's Fliker site there seems to have been a lot of variety in door and end detail between individual vans. The Pressed Steel Company may have been clearing out its stock of end pressings after BR finished building the last of its traditional vans. http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/entry.php/57-Simple-21mm-stock-conversions

The tendency for modellers to organise conventions rather than exhibitions is probably the greatest difference in the way the hobby is organised between the UK and Ireland on one hand and North America, Australasia. The local model railway clubs hosted this years National Convention over 180 delegates attended with American guest speaker Lance Mindheim http://www.shelflayouts.com/, together with workshops and clinics on various aspects of railway modelling including layout planning, operation, scenery, 3D design, and the old stalwarts of scratch and kit building in styrene and metal. Along with demonstration layouts, numerous trade stands the highlights of the convention included a modelling competition with a special section for the local fauna and bird life. . Curiously Irish railway modelling got a look in I volunteered my American-ish garden railway to represent large scale modelling, and with Keadue my Cavan & Leitrim layout moved out to the garage in case the weather broke. The forecast for the weekend was bad with a storm hitting on Wednesday evening finally clearing around dusk on Thursday followed by a frantic track clearing session removing a dustbin load of palm fronds and fallen branches. Friday turned out good with guest operators running steam and on board battery power while I acted as tour guide. Sunday was challenging running a combination of battery and DCC outside between the squalls and running a tour of the workshop and demonstrating Keadue. In all we had something like 150 people view the garden and workshop. Somehow or other I felt going back to work on Tuesday very relaxing

Nice work I particulary like the photo of 086SA dates the loco to the 80s Is the leading coach a standard MK1 or have you modified it to a van?

Don't forget that time is money even with CIE, the role of the Heritage Officer is mainly to allow IE to operate a modern railway without running foul of Councils and an Taisce for demolishing/modifying listed buildings historically significant infrastructure. I found writing to the Chief Mechanical Engineers Office and requesting specific drawings is the most effective. I couple of years ago I was surprised to receive an e-mail from Phil Vestry to say he had instructed the Drawing Office to do a search, they came up with some excellent drawings and photos of the Park Royals and Laminates. The Working Timetables in the 80s anyway had a list of wagon series and types, IRRS and the preservation groups may have copies of WTT for sale

The one advantage public roads have over rail is that they are classed as a common good useable by anyone who has a driving license and paid se form of vehicle license on the European mainland, while a railway is classed as a private good operated for the profit of the owner or operator. The Government uses its powers to set fees and duties to allow the road system to operate profitably and cover its social costs, its always been more expensive to run a car or truck in Ireland because of higher taxes, excise costs, duty ad insurance costs than Northern Ireland, the UK and most other countries. Its not shown as a profit as it goes into general taxation. To a degree a similar system applies to rail in the UK with Intercity services centrally funded and suburban and rural services funded through the local rates. I wonder how the Dublin region, Cork or Limerick ratepayers would react to having to fund their local rail services?

I found the CMEs Office at Inchacore pretty good in terms of drawings but not much help in terms of general information. The 3rd edition Doyle & Hirch Locomotives and Rolling Stock of CIE & NIR probably has the most accurate details as no new wagons were built after the introduction of the Shale Wagons in the early 80s

I hadn't noticed the concreted hard standing before nicely modelled with the expansion joints and dummies. There must be a large creamery Co-Op locally to justify the investment inbound fertiliser, possibly the Ratio gantry to handle outbound butter & cheese for the UK market in insulated FM or those new fangeled ISO containers. The station might even stay open under Railplan 80 Maybe it the signal box but to me the station has a look of the GN about it, but still plausible if the Cork & Waterford had been built by an independent company in the 1850-60.

Nice looking job of a difficult prototype, Smallbrook Studios do some interesting stuff http://www.smallbrookstudio.co.uk/. I remember reading a piece in Irish Railfans News that a number of spoil wagons were trialled as ballast wagons on CIE. I understand that the spoil wagons belonged to the NI Department of Transport rather than NIR. After the contract the Department was anxious for a buyer as NIR did not have a need or have the means to pay for the wagons.

The Ratio OO 9'wb wagon chassis & LNWR open and p.w. wagon kits include the option of RCH and the old style single shoe brake gear similar to that used in Ireland http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3340,3344&CAT_ID=3350&P_ID=17872 The LNWR wagons are good value a bit short but look reasonably close to ex GSWR wagons that lasted into the 1960s & 70s. 51L Models produce a number of Scottish wagons with single lever brake gear http://www.51l.co.uk/crwcom.htm#brake levers and lever guides

As we have looked at most of the main line stations on the North Kerry, I thought we might as well look at the North Kerry Yard in Tralee and the Fenit branch, both were important in terms of beet traffic and the North Kerry yard continued to handle keg and container traffic after the main line closed. The GSWR and the North Kerry originally had separate stations on either side of Edward Street the connecting line and level crossing was a late addition, the North Kerry station closed several years after the GSWR absorbed the WLWR. Apart from the ESSO sidings and the private siding into the mill there seems to have been little change since WLWR days. The WLWR engine shed and turntable appears to have been on the north side of the line on the western side of Edward Street. There appears to have been a large goods shed on the loading bank that was later used for loading sugar beet traffic a 16t gantry was installed for container traffic in the 1960s. I griced the year with my brand new Instamatic camera in 77or 78. Rock Street cabin was still manned although traffic to Fenit and Listowel had ceased. A couple of flat wagons with keg containers and a CIE Insulated container were positioned on the gantry road, a large number of H wagons were placed on the sidings on either side of the running road and loop. Interestingly a couple of wagons were on the mill siding. I checked out Fenit, Ardfert and Abbeydorney the following day, when got back the yard was largely clear of wagons. Heuston-Tralee was the last freight service to go over to Liner Train operation in 79 or 80. A coupling broke on the last loose coupled goods out of Heuston with most of the train running away down the Gullet into the passenger station. [attachment=:name] The Fenit branch was sponsored and built by Tralee interests as an alternative to the Ship Canal, before the opening of the Leibherr crane factory the port was never very successful depending on coal and timber traffic for local merchants. The port struggled to raise capital to maintain or renew infrastructure, the port closed to commercial traffic due to structural problems with the pier causeway and was famous in the 60s for using steam cranes to load Leibherr Tower Cranes for export. The line was originally worked by the W&L using a contractors tank loco that was re-gauged from standard gauge, the Harbour Commissioners later bought a standard Hunslet industrial 0-6-0ST which became GSWR 299 which was later used on the Cork Harbour sidings and the Timoleague & Courtmacsharry in West Cork. CIE looked at using 299 or No90 or 100 but used an ex MGWR 0-6-0T 560 surplus from the Waterford & Tramore. 560 was used up to 1963 after which a G611 or E401 was used from Tralee. The G appears to have been used to move cuts of wagons between the pier and station for collection by a C Class or other loco sent from Tralee. Rail traffic from the pier seems to have got sparse the last train is said to have been for a ship load of starch diverted from another port in the early 70s. The line seems to have been busiest for beet with most of the traffic from Spa the wagons would have had to be brought to Fenit to run round. The buildings at Fenit appear to have been similar to Ardfert and other smaller North Kerry Stations, the station building appears to have been demolished following the end of regular passenger services, the goods shed later demolished to extend the beet loading bank. The loco shed and turntable had gone by the 1970s, but the footbridge with very attractive stonework and the base of the water tank survives. Fenit was famous for its self propelled steam cranes which were used into the mid 1960s, I am not sure if they were capable of moving wagons, but one of the photos in A J O'Rourkes North Kerry book shows a crane parked at the end of the platform road by the buffer stops with a number positioned on the pier. The pier would make an interesting tabeau especially with a small tank loco or a G and a couple of self propelled cranes scuttling about. Perhaps the Jordan Steam Shovel (rigged as a crane) on a Black Beetle motor bogie.

Introduced in 1966 as a general purpose flat wagon these were the 1st of the CIE family of 20T flats. The wagons were intended mainly for palletised and container traffic and fitted with swing down stanchions and tie downs for securing a load and were retro-fitted with cuplocks when ISO container standards were finalised in 1969. The wagons were used for palletised keg, fertiliser and container traffic until the widespread introduction of bogie flats and purpose built fertiliser wagons and keg flats in the mid-late 70s. 256436 series flats formed the basis of the bagged cement and beet doubles, others ended up in departmental use on the cable train, sleeper wagons, one was fitted with a Hiab for use with the S&E department on the DART electrification and signalling. The original intention was a detailing fret for the Prestwin with floor, bufferbeams, brake gear and solebar detail, in the end a complete kit turned out to be simpler and more effective. Test Build 25436 Series Flat The test assembly went together very well all of the critical components are self locating with slots and tabs. I need to look at the decking chequer plate ended up as polka dots and re-jig the buffer beams. I am looking at detail castings for this and the 22'6" flat I have the masters for the spring and dampers somewhere, MJT do reasonably close roller bearing axlebox and buffers. At this stage I am not sure on cost possible release date Autumn (Northern) 2014

I bought a couple of Base Toys Leyland Comets from Hatton's after Christmas I thought I had to do something when I saw the photo of the CIE Leyland Comet tipper, but chickened out on the 3 way tipping mechanism. The assembly is fold up no need for solder about 30 minutes work. If anyone is interested let me know and I will look at costs

Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation the railways only survived because the Government gave CIE a virtual monopoly on land transport and neither of the two main political parties could afford to discommode the public sector unions. Most of the many reports found that it would cost less to let the railways to run down gradually rather than improving services or complete closure. The more passengers IE carries the greater the loss as none of the services come cover their operating costs. The Irish people have to decide whether they are prepared to pay higher taxes to subsidise rail travellers or breakup CIE open public transport up to competition.

Killala seems an odd spot for a power station unless imported biomass is just a stop gap, or perhaps there are good tax breaks for setting up a "renewable" energy plant. A 50MW the proposed plant is less than half the size of Edenderry and 1/8 the size of Drax so is unlikely to need long trains of covered hopper wagons or a rebuild of the line to Killala. Funnily enough locally produced industrial Ethanol was once an important traffic on the Ballina Branch, typically the plant was built alongside the line near Lough Conn, typically both CIE & Chemicals Teo. were allergic to a private siding serving the plant. Some how or other the DNGR had no problem providing a siding to the Cooley Pant

I had one of the original whitemetal flats and a bubble from around 1982-3?. Don't forget low sales volumes was one of the main reasons MIR closed up. Most of the kits were upgraded, re-tooled from whitemetal to resin with improved detail and simplified assembly. A rtr model needs to sell in 1000s, resin 50, whitemetal and etched brass about half that amount

Are Coca Cola planning to convert the Ballina Beverages plant to burn biomass or has someone built a power station? Presumably the "biomass" is sawmill waste from the US & Canada compressed into pellets and export 5000-6000 miles. Hardly likely to reduce the carbon footprint compared to electricity produced from coal or natural gas. Funnily enough ESB converted some of its sod peat stations such as Cahirciveen to run on biomass (willow and other quick growing trees) more than 30 years ago.

The long brake levers are a standard Irish Railway (IRCH) design used on most wagons about 1910 up to the md-1950, the van with the short brake lever is on a Bulleid Triangulated underframe standard for wagons and vans built by CIE in the mid 1950s. Both vans have independent either side brakes acting on one shoe per axle. The main difference between the two gears was that CIE went for a round rather than a flat section pushrod.

David. I never cease to be amazed by the speed and quality of your work. Having two Leitrim class on the layout really helps to transform it from a model to a working railway. Brilliant stuff

I could have said it differently my question to Richie about taking on Dapol as to bring a bit of reality to the discussion, rather than take a pop at Richie, his modelling ability or creatitivity. While the plasticard chassis really looked the part and is an ideal material fo scratchbuiding, I don't see hand or possibly profile cut plasticard chassis kit as a realistic option for batch or mass production. The group has more or less established that unless someone is prepared to put up 40-50K a massed produced rtr model of an Irish wagon is unlikely, commissioning someone like Parkside Dundas to produce a plastic wagon kit is also likely to be expensive. So this leaves up with the Dapol Prestwin and the small range of be-spoke Irish RTR wagons and kits which given the size of the market are never going to be cheap. The low cost and the huge variety of RTR available in the UK is mainly as a result of a battle for market share between Bachmann & Hornby, commissioners like Dapol, Heljan and Murphy Models have carved out niche markets where people are prepared a premium for what are mainly collectors items mainly unsuccessful early BR Modernisation Scheme and Irish diesels. The best we can hope for is that the 50 plus year old Prestwin toolings hold up, Parkside have produced custom wagon and chassis kits for other suppliers, but a premium would apply to a smallish run of say bagged cement or a beet doubles. I don’t see a plastic chassis as a viable option for a 4 wheel skeletal flat there is no place to hide a weight. A 25654 steel floored flat is with the engravers, these were the first modern CIE container flats quite complex wagons with steel floors fold down stanchions and various tied down straps as they were built shortly before the twistlock was invented. I am finalising the 22’6” flat I first prepared in 2012. Both wagons are fold up and slot and tab assembly so soldering will not be necessary. Both wagons will have the correct width frame and are suitable for 21mm or OO I would expect to release both wagon kits later in the year, to keep the cost down I will probably sell these without castings most of which are currently available from MJT in the UK. 22'6" Flat test build Garfield's point about it being no more expensive to get right as wrong is only partially true, while there are a few horrors out there, producing an accurate model or a buildable kit takes a lot of additional time and money. I will probably get through on these wagons with one maybe two design revisions, but even with all the information in the world we tend to miss the blindingly obvious

I am not sure how I missed that one, the yard would have been very difficult to shunt without the second crossover.

There was an article on the layout in the Railway Modeller 72 or 73. Although there were a couple of scratch built locos by Harry Connaugton including a GNR compound, a number of locos ran on Triang-Hornby L1 & Jinty chassis, The layout was converted to automatic operation displayed at Shannon Airport for a year or so and ran for about 6 months in the Kilkenny shop durinng he late 70s

Modelling Irish railways is either a matter of ignoring the gauge issue like many modellers in order to get something running, or deciding whether to run with an established scale and vary the gauge, or use an established gauge and vary the scale. Unless you are absolutely determined to scratchbuild everything including rolling your own rails and casting and machining wheels its probably easiest to stick with an established scale. Having a 45mm gauge garden railway and seeing Ian Ramseys U Tube videos 15mm scale Irish narrow gauge with some of John Amstrongs live steam Irish locos and stock would be tempting or even an 8.6mm scale B141 or C Class, but I would probably need to take out a second mortgage and what do I do with all my small scale stuff. While the OO/EM/S4 thing in the UK is complicated enough Large Scale American G Scale is a real can of worms with 3' gauge narrow gauge stock modelled in three different scales 1:20.5, 1:22.5 & 1:24 all running on 45mm Gauge 1 track, not helped with Aristo Craft doing a Henry Greenly and producing a large scale OO with American standard gauge models produced over size to "make them look more impressive" and other manufacturers following suit. Somewhere or other I have a presentable Schull & Skibereen Erin bought second hand from the UK modelled in plasticard on a Toymobile chassis, built like a battleship boiler fittings formed from bits of tube, bolts, washers etc John

Very convincing I especially like the Simplex and the bus coach. I don't know about the present day even in the Mid 90s there was little in the way of Hi-Vis safety or work wear in Ireland, like most workers BNM staff (often farmers) wore their old clothes to work sometimes eve the old Sunday Suit. Depending the County the crew might break the monotony of the day with a kick about with a football or practice a ""puc fada" in hurling.

I am not sure if any wagons fitted with the Morton handbrake in Ireland most of the unfitted wagons had a single brake shoe on each side operated by a long lever, a small number mainly CIE Pallet Vans, GNR Bagged Cement and Private Owner Tank wagons had independent either side brakes similar to the RCH type Most of the more modern fitted wagons had a parallel motion arrangement for transmitting the motion from the brake lever to the cross shaft similar to BR wagons of the same era.