jhb171achill

I particularly like the 071 in black’n’tan. If delivered just four years earlier, they’d have had it!

No, not full trains. I’m not sure what happened to their containers, though.

In the early 70s there were trains full of B + I, yes.

Superb!! I had seen some of his work years ago, very well done!

Pretty much all of those shown, so good news!

Years ago, we had a pedigree Persian cat called Louisa in my aunt’s house. Well, she disdainfully tolerated my aunt living there.......

Funny you say that, an IRM guy showed me the test sample today...

Puzzle for “SLNCR Heads”! The layout of the Collooney / Carrignagat / Ballysodare area is shown here. On OLD maps of the area, the unmistakable shape of a railway formation can be seen where I have marked it in red, as a DIRECT curve from the WLWR “Back siding” which ran under the Midland to connect the WLWR station with the SLNCR one. Sprinks’ book does not mention it, nor show it on the diagram, as seen in the illustration shown. This curve appears to be trackless by the 1920s at least. Anyone know if it was ever even completed? Google Earth shows traces of hedge today clearly following a little bit of it but the whole site is largely obliterated.

Interesting - must check that out!

Yes, I think 90 was painted black about 1958, also the “big” engine - I think it was the only one of those in black. Yes, the grey was indeed bland, more so when filthy. The numbers were a dark cream / pale yellow, rather than bright yellow as they appear in some colour slide renditions. Flying snails on tenders were pale green, never yellow - but with no tender locos in West Cork you don’t have to worry about that! I saw recently someone was 3D-printing a J30.... A RTR J18 would be a very useful yoke to have, so would a J26, the MGWR tank engine type seen as far away from the Midland as Fenit, Tramore......AND West Cork!

It’s not always easy, Tobin. Prior to mid-50s, all grey. 1956-ish to 1963, most were covered in layers of filth, coal dust and rust to the extent you could barely tell in real life, never mind a photo, never mind a black and white photo! Those repainted black soon acquired the same layer of dirt. In these times CIE had dispensed with many cleaners, as the steam railway was not seen by young lads as a viable career choice. I had a list (from Bob Clements) some years ago of what classes had at least some black members, but I’ve been unable to locate it. From memory, but not complete, some notable classes which included at least one black example were J18, C2, G2, 400 and “Woolwich”, though most of the latter two were green by the end.

Ah, a RTR Bandon Tank, “Merlin” or 800!! - now THAT would be nice. And you could have one in lined green - a nice change from the universal filthy plain grey used on everything else in West Cork after 1925! On the livery subject, youve the several unique unlined versions of the green livery for older coaches that were the result of “local” one-off jobs too. You mentioned wagons - many of the older types in west Cork were an older, darker shade, almost as dark as locomotives..... The railcars - one at least had stripes on the front part of the cab roof, although these were, of course, switched and swopped with the main line. You mention the roofs - darker than wagons or locos - either an extremely dark grey (almost black) or black in most cases. Then you’ve the famous tale about the stations, which I’m sure you’re well aware of - the old CIE trick of spending a fortune painting them to artificially rack up the cost of maintaining the line - in order to justify closing it! Some stations were subjected to this, getting a very bright MGWR-esque red and cream paint scheme not long before closure.... Anyway, whatever way you go, the very best of luck, and you know you’ve a good crowd on here to assist if you need it. As you say, you’ve loads of time. I’ve been at it - on and off - for decades and I hope I’m not done yet....

Indeed, though I was thinking of west Cork....

I must be going senile - I had forgotten about the suburban tanks! Yes, 1954 would indeed be grey. They got shiny, and darker looking in photographs, sometimes as a result of “cleaning” (in reality, re-arranging the dirt) with filthy oily rags... The first clear instances of black are around 1956/7. Most stayed increasingly filthy grey until the end.

Westcorkrailway, it is indeed greatly inspiring to see folks your age getting involved. You are absolutely right in all the points you make. When I was your age, dangerously close to fifty years ago, steam was only just gone (in the north, anyway; a little longer on CIE), but I was personally interested in stuff that would have been operating in the period just before I was born, and when I was too young to remember. I retain that interest today. My father, born in 1918, was fascinated with the railways of the 1900-25 period, and recalled the first time he saw carriages painted in the "new" GSR maroon, instead of a somewhat duller, older shade used by the DSER on the Harcourt St. line in Dublin, in which he travelled to school for a time. Your interest, being in the West Cork system, is commendable. Even I don't remember that, as it was closed before I started school, and there was the small issue of me never being in that neck'o'the woods anyway. However, there are some short cuts for you. Your long-term goal may be a couple of the brass kits of "Bandon Tanks" from Studio Scale Models (practice soldering etc., on something small and cheap first!), but there are several things you could look at to start with. LOCOMOTIVES Roderick Bruce of "00 Works" is about to do a Cork, Bandon & South Coast 0.6.0 saddle tank loco - now, there were only a few, and the last one expired about 1943 - but "poetic licence" will allow you to pretend that one lasted later. This will be a ready-to-run model and may well be available right now - I haven't checked for a while. It's pricey - but a word with Santa Claus might prove fruitful - that's what I ended up appealing to when I was 17! Silverfox Models (google him) will do a kit of a "C" class - the only type of diesel that ran all over the West Cork system, and monopolised most services - goods and passenger - by the time the line closed, bar the Bantry passenger train which was a railcar. A filthy silver one and a green one will do the job. Silverfox also do a railcar set. Who knows, maybe a ready-to-run AEC set will appear in the future, but this one might start you off. get a two-car one. Once you master brass building, or if you know anyone who can help, Studio Scale Models and Worsley Works also do several bogie coaches of the period - Laminates, Bredins and Park Royals. One or other of these is a good thing as a centre car for the railcar set; if there was a GAA special or something, the AEC railcar set could be 4 carriages. Older wooden coaches for Baltimore or Clonakilty tended to be GSWR types, with some old GSWR and MGWR six-wheelers used on excursions. Hattons will be bringing out six-wheelers - a repaint of one into CIE green might do? (I've no idea what livery they are). Studio Scale and Worsley also do KITS of GSWR six-wheelers. Then there were the Bachmann "CIE" green coaches out of train sets with "Woolwich" locos - while the loco is inappropriate for West Cork, the coach would do you for a Clonakilty branch train. All trains hauled by "C" class diesels will need a luggage / heating van. Silverfox do these in green (but as far as I am aware, not silver), make sure you tell them to paint the roof black instead of light grey! Now, wagons. The vast majority of freight in West Cork was in covered vans. Cement and fertiliser, both of which have to be kept dry, formed a major part of it, with sugar beet between Christmas and the end of February. Here you will need Provincial Wagons. Ping Leslie McAllister, who you will see has posted above, and he does kits of basically everything you'll need. - Cattle wagons - Open corrugated goods trucks - these would form about 50% of all the OPEN wagons - the rest normal wooden sides at that point. - Old GSWR goods brake van; each train must have a guard's van at the end - no fully braked wagons then. - Above all, the standard CIE goods van, or "H" van. John Mayne in Noo Zealand, or JM Design, is currently doing a very nice standard CIE wood-planked guard's van. One of these is a nice contrast with the old crates of things of ancient GSWR origin (Leslie's kit) which the "main line" appear to have dumped two or three of in West Cork, when old CBSCR ones fell to bits! Wagon liveries are easy - just take your whole fleet and swirl them in a sink full of grey paint (Do not try this at home; may contain nuts.....)! Nothing, not even roofs or couplings anything other than grey! Add to this the fact that there are several Hornby / Bachmann / Dapol types of wagon which once repainted are fairly reasonable approximations to some CIE wagons, and you've more than enough there to get a good West Cork layout going. I'm sure I've left out something...but that's a start. Good luck!

Wagon plate, still bearing GSR paint. Unfortunately, full records of the DSER wagon stock have not survived, so it may not be possibly to discern what sort of wagon it came off. Don't repaint it - things like this hold their value a GREAT deal better if they have original paint on them. The only other possibility might be a bridge plate but I doubt that. Just curiosity - in your researches, did you come across any DSER locos which were painted green after 1946? Black livery didn't appear until the mid-50s, so anything in 1948 would indeed have been grey.

Considerable delays in the post; I got six Christmas cards yesterday, and they’re a good bit smaller than a book! This book is well worth waiting for.

I am sure a Hattons Irish six-wheeler would indeed be a winner. That design is similar to several GSWR types, so would be appropriate for almost all the CIE system (a few Midland branches less likely but possible). They aren't like GNR, DNGR, NCC or BCDR types, though. Certainly, I'd buy a few! And yes, the "tin vans" WERE not just numerous, but absolutely essential. Silverfox have offered several types of these, including the 1965-built six-wheeled ones. The four wheeled ones are offered in green or black'n'tan, but as far as I am aware they haven't offered them in silver. You mention the liveries. 4-wheeled ones and 4-wheeled TPOS: First, all-silver (roofs, ends, chassis, buffers, couplings, EVERYTHING unpainted, thus "silver"). From roughly 1958 they started painting them the post-1955 green (none ever had "snails") with black roofs and ends, and any newly built ones had this livery from new. From 1963, they started painting them black'n'tan. However, these vans were last in the queue for TLC or repainting. Thus, some of the earlier ones retained their "silver" livery, in reality what they'd be like after a week submerged in a tin of weathering powders - the actual "livery" quite simply non-existent, like the corrugated wagons - just a nondescript dirt colour - through the green period and on into black'n'tan times. Equally, many green ones remained green, and increasingly shabby looking, into the black'n'tan era. So when we have our shiny grey 121s, or silver, plain black or green "A"s, the appropriate mix (this is 1961-5) will be roughly equal numbers of truly filthy "silver", green and black'n'tan vans. By 1967, almost all BnT. Needless to say, the six-wheeled heating vans were only ever black'n'tan - they never carried any other livery.

Indeed - you and I will recall them well. You could have more than three on a mail train especially, often a few at the front and a few at the back. One of Barry Carse's pics shows the daily Limerick train about to leave Ballina. The consist, as far as I remember, is two different laminates, a tin van in the middle of the train, a bogie brake standard (converted laminate) and another tin van. You'd get them in the middle too, once in blue moon, especially if an extra coach was added on at the last minute. In the grey-121-era, standard practice was usually a four wheeled heating van ("hot water bottle") at one end of the train, and a "LV" (luggage van) type at the other. In reality, for us modellers, the thing is that some sort of "tin vans" are needed on every train, otherwise it has no heat or light! AEC cars had their own heating boilers in the power car - one at least on each set - but even STILL often trailed a tin van to carry parcels. In this guise, "tin vans" covered the whole West Cork system, and invaded the UTA where they were commonplace the whole way to Belfast, and were also to be seen on the Derry Road; photos show them in Foyle Road, Strabane and Omagh. I woild imagine they may have reached Warrenpoint. Needless to say, long gone lines within the CIE network saw them EVERYWHERE: Tralee - Valencia Harbour and Kenmare, Tralee - Limerick - Sligo, Mallow - Waterford, the North Kerry line, Kilkenny - Port Laoise and so on. I've never seen a picture of one on the Cavan branch, and if they did get to there it would have been only just after the very first ones were built, and on a goods train. There is even an OUTSIDE possibility (David Holman & Galteemore Alert!) that an early one MIGHT have got to Enniskillen over the SLNCR, as the very earliest ones were setting out and about then - though to be fair its unlikely, and could only have been within a goods train. CIE goods stock was often to be seen, for obvious reasons, along the SLNCR, and many pics show newish "H" vans as quite a contrast to the SLNCR's run-down, runcible and crumpled antiques still carrying goods! Tin vans in GOODS trains? Not really - but there's an exception to every rule, isn't there? I saw one in a goods train between Dundalk and Belfast one time about 1970. I've no idea why - it may have been carrying parcels, or it may just have been worked back to Dundalk, maybe having been a "cripple" off the "Enterprise". On NIR, they were regularly to be seen on early morning Portadown - Belfast railcars, their smart black'n'tan quite a contrast with by-now-tired NIR maroon and grey AEC railcars. I would be interested to know if a CIE "tin van" ever got near the Larne or Derry lines. I very much doubt it, and have never heard of it, but the Larne line in the 1960s had very considerable mail and parcels traffic, and you could get the UTA equivalent, the NCC brown vans - up to maybe SIX of them, tagged onto the back of Belfast - Larne railcars. Very much CDRJC operations- stick a few wagons at the back of a railcar set!

I suppose I've mentioned it before, but I tend to prefer the practical, in the sense of what is currently missing in RTR and kit form, and would be absolutely essential for authenticity in a given period. With growing interest in the "grey'n'green" era, me being one of 'em, practicality absolutely dictates a RTR CIE 20T or 30T guard's van, several types of laminates, Park Royals and above all - tin vans in all three liveries, and of all types. With a tiny few exceptions (e.g. the Loughrea coach), quite simply ALL passenger trains in the sixties and seventies had a generator van. Four and six wheeled ones up to 1969, exclusively, with the Dutch added in 1969 and BR in '72, and of course after that the Mk 2 and eventually Mk 3 ones. But we're talking here aboyt the sixties, so the 4 and 6 wheeld ones are an absolute necessity. The OTHER absolute necessity for main line passenger in the 1950-65 period is the AEC railcars, as ubiquitous and commonplace then as ICRs are now on main lines. These things are a must. There was scarcely a line which didn't have them, in many cases as much a "staple diet" as ICRs on the Midland today.

Those would be good too, indeed. And obviously a WCR / CDR Walker railcar.

If EVER a narrow gauge prototype was done, something which ran on several lines would be the most viable. This indeed, or T & D stuff which ran on the T & D, WCR and C & L. While only one home, a Donegal 2.6.4T also....

Just one locomotive for sale and nothing else? Does he still make models or advertise any range of rolling stock?

Tigers?

As long as the partridge is in the correct livery.............