jhb171achill

It’s worth remembering that when the 121s entered traffic, and for almost two years afterwards, ALL coaches were green, and in the Cork area there were still 6-wheelers in traffic. Tin vans are essential for that period too.

In the current grand scheme of things, they would probably be unwise to offer a date. Too many variables are disrupting things right now- the Covidpox, backlogs in Chinese factories, transport delays, possible customs issues if travelling via Brexitland......

Its carrying the then-current "Enterprise" headboard.... That train actually shows perfectly the necessity to have model "tin vans" to top and tail trains like this - one luggage van (rear in this case) and one heating van (behind the loco in the above).

Yes, even when the Dungarvan - Mallow line closed in 1967, there would still have been a few green coaches about, especially "tin vans" and full brake / mail coaches. Indeed - this is six years after closure. This train is thus a special of some sort, which is what I suspected. Could it be a GAA special?

Leading coach is a GSWR bogie of 1910-20 period. By 1969, few wooden steam-era coaches were left on CIE, though NIR's coaching stock was composed entirely of such types. It is interesting to see one in main line use, as they were normally kept in the greater Dublin area. By 1974, the last wooden stock was gone. One to remember for buyers of grey or black'n'tan 121s; there's more scope for a realistic variety of carriages in a train than simply a rake of Cravens! On another note, the length of this train, plus the wooden carriage at this end suggest it's been added on to strengthen the normal set, probably as a result of some special event. In the early to mid 1960s, ex-GSWR carriages of this type were common in all types of passenger trains. Mostly green, obviously, until maybe 1965 or so, then all black'n'tan. I recently contacted Worsley Works to enquire as to whether they might do an etch of one of these (plus a Midland six-wheeler). Allen replied that he has a serious backlog of requests right now but will look into it. He requested drawings - I have some, but my stuff is all in storage at the moment as a result of a house move. I'll dig them out in due course.

They did indeed appear on the "Enterprise" - though not often. The "A" class were more regular. My own observations of them concur with yours, of course - I travelled in the cab of 121 "pairs" on the Sligo line twice in the late '70s. Anyone here who ever travelled in the cab of a 141 at speed - the 121s were even bumpier! My recollections of Westport in the early to late 70s was more usually "A" class, though I am aware that pairs operated here also. (We used to go to the "Wisht" for our holidays every summer). For models, it's a reasonable rule of thumb that grey examples operate singly, and black'n'tan ones either singly or in tandem with another, or with a 141 or 181 if you are modelling 1972 (Mk 2 era) onwards. Unless there was ever a test run, I doubt if grey 121s were ever paired - certainly never in regular traffic. In the 1970s, any mix of the three classes (for a pair) of black'n'tan or supertrain liveries. By 1980, 121s working singly were as good as unknown, with but two exceptions: (a) The Dundalk Barrack St branch, and (b) later on, a few 121s with the Mk 3 push-pulls. By the very late 80s / early 90s, you've a mix of CIE supertrain livery and "tippex" with "set of points" logo. Black'n'tan is long gone by now, so this and "tippex" never mixed. Later still, mixes in pairs with this and the "three-pin-plug" logo. I have a very vague memory of seeing a photo somewhere one time of a new (grey) 121 rescuing a failed steam loco on a service train (or maybe it was the other way round!), so you had a unique "pair" there - a brand new 121 and a steam engine!

Phew!

Is one of those Donald Trump?

That would be an ecumenical matter..... -------------- All of the 121s had no handrails once repainted from grey to black'n'tan, but during the currency of that livery gained them. While the livery officially changed to "Supertrain" in 1972, black'n'tan ones would still remain in traffic for a few years more - with handrails. I am unaware of any being repainted into "Supertrain" livery still without full handrails. The first time I saw repainted ones, they had them - and the pair (on the front of a Cork train of Mk 2s about to leave Heuston) were both straight out of the paint shop. And I had just used up all my film on an "E" class, and two "H" vans in the goods yard.............

Saw that. Nice little video.

Almost inevitably singly in the 1960s (grey / yellow and black'n'tan versions), but usually, and laterally inevitably "paired" either with other 121s, 141s or 181s after 1972 (black'n'tan and all later liveries).

Indeed

Must have looked amazing especially with every single loco bar the three 800s in plain grey for over twenty years! Thirty years in the case of this type.....

VERY nice. Well done.

It is - "tippex" livery with "set-of-points" logo instead of the "3-pin plug". Thus, 1987-mid 1990s.

Pre 1914, I'd say. During the first world war, there would have been newspaper posters all over the place with the latest developments. If I could make out what lettering style and garter logo are on the side of the tram, I could pin it down better. I can't see properly, but I think that the trams are bogie - though not covered upstairs. That might suggest late 1910s, maybe within the 1909-1912 period at a wild guess. Tram livery appears to be dark blue & white, so that would fit that period. The grey with yellow lining was, I think, earlier, and the green obviously later. Clothing of people suggests early 1910s. Clearly it is well after 1900, as not only are the repairs to the station evident after the accident, but the (new) brickwork looks weathered by this stage. If it looked brand new I'd say 1902 or 3, but it has to be later.

It’s preserved in working order at Downpatrick.

WOW! I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing THIS one develop!

Look superb, David - and I love your attention to detail! The little Timoleague locomotive is a superb job too!

Yes, I've been on to them too. They only have to worry about two Irish liveries, unless you also go back to GSR, and if it was me, I would not be sure of a market for that. CIE's 1945-55 lined green, and 1955-63 lighter green would be all they'd need. Here's hoping!

Well, that would work as the “Quiet Man” loco is exactly that - a GSWR 4.4.0! As for others, there was such little in the way of standardisation that a generic 4.4.0 chassis would be unlikely to be possible. The Hattons “Genesis” project 6-wheelers (not the 4-wheelers, though) are coincidentally not unlike several GSWR types, so if they can be persuaded to do some in CIE livery, we have suitable carriages!

"Whiteheaven" - I like that! It's been said before, of course, but a "WT" class 2.6.4T is probably the best idea for a commercially viable Irish steam loco, or maybe one of the GSWR 4.4.0 classes.

Confession time; a Murphy or IRM-standard 80 class would be welcome in my house, even though in real life I saw them as too modern, dull BR design and NOISY and rattly to travel in the power cars! I could be persuaded to take a two-car 2700 too, quality permitting, and fertiliser wagons I thought long and hard about. Each to their own, of course. We always have “steam-deniers” in our midst!

Can we split it?

I'm not one bit ashamed to say that in the late 1960s and onwards I often applied my creative juices to finding ways not to bother the people at the border with the nice white hats, with extra paperwork. As the generation before me had done; and I will happily pass cultural traditional skills onwards, if it becomes necessary!