jhb171achill

Excellent list regarding what goes with what; I think that for any scale model (as opposed to “toy” train set) it will encourage both manufacturers Tierra and buyers to produce a model if (a) there is widespread knowledge of what ran with it, and (b) there are models available of suitable stock. The list above is very informative for the later liveries, from the late “black’n’tan” era onwards. For the “grey’n’green” era, we have the silver liveried “A” class examples, the green ones and the black ones. A suitable list for them would be as follows: SILVER A (& C & B101) All coaching stock green except any brand-new laminates and (briefly) Park Royals; mostly lighter shade but some older vehicles still darker shade. 1. Wooden bogies (almost all GSWR) by this stage 2. Bredins 3. 1951-3 CIE stock 4. Cork - Youghal excursions: old six-wheelers of GSWR & MGWR origin. 5. New (silver) “laminates”, especially for silver locos. As the silver locos were repainted green, so were the silver carriages. 6. Like the above, Park Royals. First ones silver when new and quickly repainted green, but later ones green (with silver bogies) when new. GREEN locos All of the above, but in the last few years of this livery, a minority of coaches now starting to appear in black’n’tan. Once the locos started appearing in black or black’n’tan (the two overlapped to an extent), green carriages are about 40/60 green/BnT. By c.1967/8, all green gone. Six-wheelers (apart from 3 or 4 full brakes) vanish in early 1963, just as the black’n’tan livery has started to spread. In the black or black’n’tan liveries of the 1960s, the “A” class are used mainly on goods trains, with AEC railcars and the 121 / 141 / 181 classes dealing with passengers. WAGONS In all of the above, all wagons are grey. All guards vans are grey, with extremely few exceptions; red Ranks grain wagons or black tank wagons being the only exceptions I can think of. There were no brown wagons or vans at all, until 1970.

It's time for your medicine, DJ!

Eh, wow....... enjoy them.....! Not sure where this little grey machine was pictured - found it in Senior's stuff, but no record of it. With several Wisht Caark, boy, and Midland fans on here, thought it might be of interest.

Saw this large green tube or pipe in Malahide station today. It was making bus noises and there were people in it. I’m old enough to remember seeing trains in the same place years ago.

Love the Dublin bunting in the street! Superb model.....

If there are no bits on them that a small animal could swallow, I will offer €5 for the lot for the dog to chew. He's chewed all four limbs off his toy rabbit.

Senior would have been involved in maintaining that track in the mid 1940s. It's a wonder he didn't end up in a padded cell in the Home for the Bewildered.............

I very sincerely hope that did not sell. I know that something is worth whatever someone wants to pay, but someone taking even a third of that amount for a crude, broken old toy like that is just plain obscene.

For reasons of security, the movements of this vehicle were never included in the weekly circulars; they were arranged ad hoc at the last minute. I am unaware of any "heists" ever having taken place! The bank counter - yes! And all those branches are shut now...........! And yes, staff walked up one side of the carriage end steps, got their money, and down the other side.

The W & L was made up of a multiplicity of different companies, so by the time it became the WL&WR it is probable that there were barely two vans alike. Personally I am unaware of the survival of details of any of them. If I was undertaking your project, I would probably use an early GSWR one, as these would been interchanged with their own after 1901 anyway. Sorry, that's the best I can do!

A neat looking thing, indeed, with a distinctly "Irish" look. While the grey is too light for GSR, it gives an idea of what a GSR derivative would look like. I am not sure of the dimensions, but a cursory look makes me wonder if, given a bit of jiggery-pokery and a "two-foot rule", it might be possible to make it resemble a WLWR D15, a GSWR D2 or D3, or a MGWR D5, D6, or D7? Apart from the splashers, actual length of loco would be the biggest of a number of issues with many of these.

Must be the colour scheme!!

In my far-off 009 days, there was a Japanese manufacturer of brass kits called Jo Works. I got a kit of a tank wagon which I was assured would run on 009 track. It did, but I suspect that the prototype was 3mm scale, as the Japs had some 3ft gauge lines. Looked too small among 4mm scale stuff running on 009 track, so I sold it......couldn't get the couplings to stay on it either.....

I'll pay more attention!

Interesting! They could do with them on many train services, and buses and the Luas (different company or not), and in stations, to deal with the scumbags that hang about certain railways stations and cause trouble on trains. And give them EXTENSIVE powers to make these people absolutely terrifed of the consequences of messing about.........

New one to me!

On another model website, when you open up "Irish" railway threads, subjects which have been updated but you have not yet read are in bold print, with ones that you're up to date with in ordinary print............ so it's easy to see where new posts or new updates to existing posts are..... I was interested in the map, too. I must persuade maah ole school buddy in Tennessee, y'all, to add himself (and start an Irish layout, instead of footering about with narrow gauge Mallards and Flying Scotsmen....) Yee-ha.... Come to think of it, I know a guy in Perth, WA, who may also have an interest....

Interesting - wasn’t sure about No.1.

Yes, I think I mentioned that somewhere - I wonder if Harold H had a hand in that too.... Regarding Mayner’s comments, agree entirely.

I remember that. There were RUCTIONS over it in England!

They did. The late, great Harold Houston had a part in ensuring that BOTH 30 and 74 were preserved. jhbSenior and he were great friends, from when Senior worked on the NCC in the 1940s. Upon asking Harold one time, when he visited him after retirement in Whitehead, why 30 was that colour instead of the extremely dark green (the "green" equivalent of "navy" blue, I suppose), Harold's honest answer was "I don't know!" The GNR tank in there is also correct, and some CDR items are in actual CDR paint. The Dargan Saloon has been repainted; the colour is more than close enough though. I think it had been grey in its later CIE ownership, but I'd have to check. The C & L locomotive is OK - the company had engines in two shades of green and also one in black when the GSR took over and dropped them all into a pint glass filled with grey paint! The Derry shunter, No. 1, is still in its original paintwork, and I think the DNGR coach may also be. The GNR railbus was repainted, as it was fully rebuilt; the paint scheme appears to be accurate enough - AND - it's in FULL working order! An interesting thing about this is that when it was restored in the mid 1990s, the then RPSI policy was to have accurate liveries on everything, and coaches 9 (K15) and 114 were painted also in GNR blue and cream. As treasurer, it fell to me to pay the bills; the supplier we used was Jamison & Green in Belfast. Long before things like RAL codes were ever heard of, this company had a man who was about to retire, and had mixed paints for the company all his life. This company hed previously supplied dark blue and cream paint to the GNR itself, and this oul boy had the mix in his head, and written down somewhere; both colours, plus UTA green, were STILL on their books. I passed this info on to UFTM, one of whose leading lights was also on the RPSI Council at the time, so we could be sure that this railbus got the right colour. If anyone in the preservation world is reading this, it might be worth investigating (for future reference) if this company still hold these records. I believe the man who knew was called George something, but I digress.... The CDR "Phoenix" is repainted, and accurate apart from the lettering which should be pale yellow, not white. The Donegal tank engine is a mess. What may well be original cab and side tank paint, but the boiler and dome painted black. While many looked like this in use, they were actually painted red! Sadly, this has been perpetrated with another restored CDR tank up in Donegal - black dome is wrong. Looks like a pimple on its face...... Mind you, red is a most impractical colour for a working steam loco - GNR blue locos also ended up with black-looking domes, which were blue! Enough - time for my tea. Relax, everyone; that's tonight's boring post done with........! Just to show I'm not totally fixated, I actually like BOTH of those - even the blue tank engine. But I am also almost the only person on the planet who actually liked the 1980s "Desert Sand" Dublin bus livery, which has been described as the "vomit" livery by some..... (so what would I know, with taste like that!).

To go back to the original topic, about RTR steam engines. As others mentioned, this conversation has sprung up here and there over the years, often morphing into "wish lists". From a commercial point of view, doing a model of a diesel or a CIE coach means (usually) a model which could have been seen anywhere from Cork to Dundalk, Rosslare to Sligo; and even Cavan, Monaghan and Dundalk, as well as the main line to Belfast - and all of this over a period of maybe 40 years. 141s and laminates even made it to Omagh and Derry. Fertiliser bogies were regulars in the NCC (Waterside) station, so would fit a layout based on the NCC main line. Killagan, 1980, anyone? Nice! But steam engines.... Many were only to be seen in one area. You can't do an accurate west of Ireland layout with GNR 4.4.0s or Bandon tanks. You can't do ANYWHERE but the main Cork line with 400s, 500s or 800s. The only diesel equivalent here is B101s, which rarely strayed off the GSWR lines. Even the most common steam loco, the J15, was absent from West Cork, as were all tender engines. The northern equivalent, the "WT" class "2.6.4T "Jeep", was rare away from the NCC, apart from residencies of a few of the class on the GNR in the late 60s; they even managed appearances on the "Derry Road", but only right at the end. Apart from RPSI outings, they were not known anywhere on the rest of the CIE system, and J15s never worked on the GNR, let alone the NCC, bar a bit of York Road shunting with RPSI-owned 186 about 1968! Just about any steam engine suffers from several things, in terms of its application to layouts: 1. In terms or realistic operation, lack of geographical variety. 2. Cost. With such small runs, very pricey per item and way beyond the means of some modellers. 3. Less interest, especially amongst modellers too young to remember steam working. Even an oul fossil like me has more memories of steam in Indonesia, Austria, the Czech Republic, Germany, Luxembourg, South Africa and India - than Ireland. 4. In commercial terms, as the IRM Brigade will, I am sure, agree - a very tiny proportion of an already tiny market. In an ideal world, a Donegal Class 5A 2.6.4T would win hands-down as a RTR model for 12mm gauge - but how many would pay perhaps €300 / €350 a pop, and buy three? Nothing remotely close to any sort of viable market. We are all aware of the two steam lists - (a) our personal "wish lists", and (b) what we know would be the most popular, whether they were our own favourites or not. From a commercial point of view, that translates to "least unpopular". I think that the 00 Works model, with small batches of RTR, is the best way; a few collectors items like, say, a RTR "800" class, should become highly sought-after collector's items, if such a thing appeared - maybe a GN "S" class too, who knows. A UTA "Jeep" would be a winner, without doubt, in the north - if that place was a great deal bigger (or more densely populated with railway enthusiasts - but who in Cork or Limerick might buy one? I am certain that a well-chosen, limited edition run of RTR steam is a good idea, and I don't want to yet again open a vast debate aboput which it should be, but manufacturers will tread warily and sensibly, i am sure.

Well.... OK, first, as a one-time preservationist, I am well aware of the outrage when anyone dares to even comment on colours of things, so I do not want to stoke that; I've been there, got the T shirt, having once painted a coach at Whitehead in a gaudy purply red, as the paint supplier made a mess of the order......... so, for any active preservationists, please take my comments as factual. In Cultra, everything is correct except: 1. Maedb. She's in CIE Inchicore-painted green, not GSR green as sometimes mistakenly assumed, but has GSR markings which were not put there until she arrived in Cultra. As a GS loco, she'd a have a different green, and yellow and black lining, not white and black, which was pure CIE. 2. BCDR No. 30. The green is light years too light, makes her look like an Isle of Man engine. BCDR green was very dark indeed, and if this wretched covid thing EVER ends, can be seen in the Malahide museum on two models. 3. CDRJC open wagon. This is in actual original Donegal paint, but seems to have acquired black strapping in preservation. That's not accurate. I can't fathom why the preservation movement is obsessed with painting ironwork and corner strapping on wagons black, as it never was on almost all wagon types. 4. CIE Goods Brake Van. Black and white stripes on the lookout ducket. Should be yellow and black. The CIE "roundel" and numerals aren't quite right either, but to fair, that latter is serious nit-picking! 5. Cavan & Leitrim and Castlederg coaches. The lettering on these is completely wrong. Self-adhesive "Arial" plastic lettering? The maroon appears to be correct, or certainly close enough, but the lettering would have been shaded yellow or gold leaf. Again, just for the record, but nit-picking! 6. Hunslet diesel 102. Again, very minor detail - there should be white lining around the ends yellow patches. It's been given a truly superb paint finish, it has to be said. I suspect that it's the way it is simply due to short time - it hasn't got its numbers and NIR logos last time I saw it. These were gold with white lining. 7. GSWR Explosives van. I'm not 100% on this, but last time I saw it, it occurred to me that the lettering wasn't quite right - not sure why! That's all I can remember... but again, I state the above as a matter of record for those interested. Many won't be! There was certainly a trial run to Limerick with one, though I do not recall the full details. lndeed it would - even though they didn't even run as a rake behind 800! Senior recalled them at one stage having "Great Southern Pullman" in gold letters above window level, but I've never seen a pic showing that - propably only on one, and short-lived.

The lower picture is the correct livery; upper one not, by the way. (Just in case anyone is modelling a BNCR or MR (NCC) locomotive. While "Midland red" was the way of things in Brexitland, the ex-BNCR retained the dark green, until LMS NCC days. Correct. There was never a full train of them. One each on the up and won day mails to / from Cork and Galway. They were never used elsewhere, expect perhaps as a one-off of some sort long after they were no longer pullmans. And yes, they ended their days in the dark green, but with lining as above.

You're stretching it there! In immediate pre-steam days, most of what ran in Wisht Caark was actually not of CBSCR parentage, anyway, so 90 is as good as it gets, indeed. My understanding is that the DCDR will in time return it to working on public trains there. Towards the end of the CBCS system, about the only thing which REGULARLY ran on it which owed its origin to anything other than the MGWR, CIE or GSWR, was the old brake van off the Courtmac branch, T&CR No. 5 (GSR / CIE 5J)........... ........which makes one wonder why on earth the RPSI is building a new-build tender engine instead of a second "Jeep"! Soon, the nearest turntable to Waterford, Cork, Tralee, Galway, Westport, Ballina and Sligo will be in Dublin!