jhb171achill

I can’t be certain on this, but the black ends start appearing about the same time as the white lines - maybe one a bit before or after. In reply to the question about the width of the white lines, about 3 inches.

The ends were black, yes, but the day-glo squares were a later addition. Yes, adding white lining would be suitable. You’d need the “intercity” writing too, though initially many had got the white stripes but not yet this writing. I think Railtec do the writing. Somebody does....

The "Tippex" livery came into being along with the "set of points" IE logo in late 1987. it was the same, exactly, as the "Supertrain" livery, with the following exceptions: 1. Replacement of CIE "roundel", which was ONLY a On the ends of locomotives, with the new "set of points" logo on ends AND sides of locos. 2. White lines, hence the "tippex" nickname for the livery - as if they'd just gone along the side of a train with a "tippex" pen. NIR would soon copy this; in 1988 white lines would start appearing on the light blue and light grey NIR "Enterprise" carriage livery. 3. On carriages, the words "inter city" in a sort of "joined writing" style would start appearing in hitherto blank carriage sides. Many coaches still sported the older livery over the next two or three years, but as Hexagon suggests, they seemed to add the white lines fairly quickly.

Very many thanks, gentlemen. I have just emailed him. I mentioned the "flying snails" above; I have also enquired about alternative numbers for Murphy B141s in the original livery, as I have six.

For some time, the Railtec website has been saying that email contact is currently unavailable. How do we contact Steve with a query about producing a new transfer? Anyone know? I want to see if he can do some wagon "flying snails" of the "stencilled" version seen from the late 50s to the time the "Roundel" replaced them. Indeed, if anyo else is interested, a combined order might be do-able.

You're doing it in silver? That will look amazing!

Ulster Railway, 1865 Engineer’s minute books. I like the way these old volumes are bound.... Many of those who wrote these book up had, as others have mentioned, a very neat and stylish type of writing. As you can see here, there were certainly some exceptions of barely legible scrawl (see last pic!)...

Thought so. John's stuff is magnificent in itself.

From the 1985 Working Timetable (which I didn't think I still had!), this might be of interest to modellers who wish to have authentic numbers on wagon stock. If this is of interest, I have some from earlier years too - PM me if you want me to look something up.

Had a look at their website - interesting. They show a truly superb model of a Donegal tank in original lined black livery. Wonder what gauge it is or who has it!

....................and "Maedb"!

I suppose we all have to start somewhere! The too one, No. 7, was one of a pair which as far as can be ascertained were the first DIESEL-powered passenger carrying rail vehicles in the world..... Indeed, odd they looked, and even odder to the people of Donegal in 1931! But they are arguably the ancestors of every diesel railcar (or DMU, as our cross-channel neighbours would have it) in the world. Meanwhile, the Tara passed Malahide today, and a Mk 4 set likewise (again, he’s got lost and is asking the Enterprise driver for directions to Limerick Junction, where the once-annually Limerick Junction to Waterford train awaits.....)

Donegal “Phoenix” and railcars repose in retirement as the “Enterprise” passes through Malahide this afternoon.

We have morons interfering with the railway today, and 126 years ago their grandparents were at it.....

Might as well post a bit more, then!

We’re in Co Tyrone and it’s 1892....

Indeed - it was make do and mend a long time ago, a bit like the current policy on providing a "service" on Limerick - Waterford red the Nenagh branch. One only has to look at the clapped out rolling stock that ran in West Cork from even mid-GSR days until the railcar set arrived, and then it was only on the Bantry line, and ran but twice a day. I misread the original post, which referred to a "3" on the loco, not the door of the coach. You can just about make it out - it's got worn off.

I would very much hope so. Minister - anything that a "great deal of thought went into", and ended up like that, wouldn't say a lot about the imaginations of whoever did the "thinking"! I never liked the livery that much, personally - I think it's very drab - but of course I am very interested in it from a historical perspective, plus the fact that if I want a 121 to operate within the timescale I prefer on my layout, then it's the only show in town!

I have not come across that story, however, what i might add is as follows. Firstly, the initial experiment with "black'n'tan" was experimental. Had it not worn well (it did!) or had there been some other issue it is likely they'd have "gone back to the drawing board". So, there was a concerted effort back then to completely try to re-invent the railway system in the public eye as something dynamic, modern clean and speedy, once steam was finally eliminated at around the same time. Secondly, the grey and yellow livery was almost certainly another experimental livery, as the 121s were NOT the only things to carry it! The tour buses for CIE tours also wore it. Notwithstanding earlier discussions, once in use for a while, the grey became scruffy, as had the "silver" of the late 1950s (though even more so!), and at first repaint they became black'n'tan. Thus, it is doubtful - though certainly possible - that it originated in the USA. After all, the one-off "brown" 071 livery when new, and that with non-standard CIE emblem, was indeed an American "interpretation" of the CORRECT livery details that they had been given. Again, first repaint was into "proper" CIE livery.

The West Cork branchlines did indeed seem weedy even then. Low speeds co tributes to its closure, as the track was for many years not as well kept as one might expect even on the main line. I’ve seen a picture taken near Skibbereen of a train in late GSR days even, out on the line, and the track looks like the Loughrea branch in 1975. Senior’s opinion of the track on the whole West Cork system was that not much of it was fit for much more than 45 / 50 mph - and that’s before were talking about axle-loading. No less than seven miles of the CLIFDEN line’s track was used in West Cork, second hand, after it was lifted in 1938. That doesn’t say much for what was there before. Acetylene contraptions which looked a bit like that were used on some of the northern narrow gauge stock. The missing “3” on the door - that was an old Bandon carriage, with (County Donegal style) just one compartment at each end. The door without a “3” is one of the central double doors into the van part.

Indeed - the all-time record for filth must be the A & C classes, “silver” tin vans, and a few of the last steam engines!

I was thinking not so much of them as brand new, folks, but more like you’ll see in pics of them in 1965/7 on the Malliw-Waterford line. l agree, of course, they looked gleaming when new - especially compared to most of what surrounded them! You’re both totally right on that score.

The "Milo" livery!

Sadly, though, they didn't stay that way long! I will have one pristine and one weathered - I hope!

My dilemma will be getting one of these silver beauties and getting it professionally weathered within an inch of its life to a state of absolute filth!