jhb171achill

I'll take the No. 30. Bush is indeed best, though so is Jameson's. Don't want to go to Crumlin, if all they have there is Club Lemon instead of Bush, and the bus is named after an Oik.

Looking at that aerial view to confirm any doubts I had, yes, definitely New Ross.

And then you’d 727, still with GNR upholstery, used as a railcar intermediate just into the 80s - the last GNR coach in service, looking well in the modern NIR blue and maroon!

Pity their website is so woefully awful - I’ve never been able to open it on any one of FOUR devices....

As you say, a small layout for “0” is very adequate. I was literally just sitting doodling a potential small layout based on Fintona - all that would be needed is one steam locomotive and half a dozen trucks. Add a small turntable and a small railbus replaces the horse....

The Hattons ones advertised so far are very like several GSWR designs, and would fit in well on an Irish layout based anywhere south of the Dublin - Galway line, plus, of course, the Limerick-Sligo route. Can't see Hornby's offerings, as their website is so slow to open as to be useless!

Ah! A breath of steam air! Me too....... Some of the young'uns here will be appalled at the likes of you and I seeing an 071 or an 80 class as "too modern to be of interest"!

Top one could be anywhere, really - possibly Broadstone or Athlone? It's a MGWR 0.6.0 in GSR days (1925-45). Second one is on the DSER somewhere - could it be New Ross? Third one - I SHOULD know that, given so many clues in the pic - but I've no idea. I think the third wagon is a DSER one. The high fencing behind looks pretty new. Wagons suggest date about 1930.

TRAMS!!!! (Maybe an old Howth tram?) Buses - the single deckers used by the UTA and CIE in the 1950s and 60s, of several types, would be a winner, I feel.

A train set - steam locomotive + wooden bogie + laminate + 6-wheel third + tin van, now there’s a thought! I do realise, before the IRM guys are imbibing their smelling salts, that we’ve a very long way to go before such a thing is commercially viable, but who can say never?

.........we'd have steam-powered Luas's, and the beautiful smell of turf smoke hanging over the salubrious settings of D4, D6 and D18!

Ye have me drooling uncontrollably now......... wouldn't be without precedent though (the smoke OR the drooling!). This time last year I was in the midst of sorting out the Fry models for the Malahide Museum (20 mins walk from where I'm sitting now), and your comment prompts me to recall that Cyril Fry invented the idea of dropping a drip of oil into the chimney of a model loco, with smoke drifting out as a result. he sold the idea to Hornby and got a decent little sum for it, and the rest is history...... Very true indeed - but it makes me think of one final point - even NOW there is virtually nothing available to authentically run behind "A" class locos in silver or green or 121s in grey! When these were bumbling about the network in those liveries, there was nothing at all in black'n'tan, and almost all trains had at least some older wooden coaches including six-wheelers. Without exception, ALL passenger trains in those times needed a tin van for a passenger train, unless it was to be run run without either heat or light. Yet, these are commercially successful. The moral of THIS story may well be that once people have these on their layouts, a commercially viable market for tin vans, laminates and Park Royals will manifest itself. Let's hope so. We do, of course, in the meantime, have the Silverfox models to fill the gaps with, some of which are available in green.

Fair enough - makes sense!

The strict commercial aspect must, of course, be the final - if not ONLY - arbiter. I think we all here appreciate the efforts of IRM to develop the Irish model market in general. And clearly it's working. Your comments on re-gauging models to 21mm gauge are interesting - I hadn't thought about that. One question, though - suppose you DID decide to try the market - let's say, with something like a C2 or a J26 - both inside cylindered. Would it be feasible, practical or economically helpful to provide as an option a body only, with the customary high detail, to assist those who might wish to make their own "broad gauge" chassis? This, of course, in addition to the full RTR 00 gauge model.

Two other points: Firstly, some of us have RPSI Cravens with nothing authentic to haul them other than diesels B141 and B134. Any steam model could be operated as “preserved” even if there isn’t one of the class in real life. Secondly, there was a time when an Irish diesel model might not have sold that well, now they sell out. There was a time when the only viable Irish model would have been something orange and black. Yet now we have a HUGE interest in thd black’n’tan era of 1963-76. There is much evidence also of a rapidly growing interest in the grey’n’green era now, too; and this required “A” class locos and steam (as well as the B101 and “C”, but that’s another story. The “Woolwich” was introduced as part of a “train set”, at a time when there was absolutely nothing to run with it, bar non-authentic LMS coaches in a CIE-ish livery, and before many modellers even had the knowledge levels prevalent now. Now, there are Worsley & SSM kits for carriages. The market is crying out for high-end RTR laminates, Bredins or Park Royals, and most obviously of all, tin vans - a run of which by JM design having sold out despite their inclusion in virtually EVERY passenger train over a fifteen year period from about 1957 to ‘72. Then we’ve the wagons. Provincial Leslie has spoiled us, and talk is of several manufacturers offering more. All told, I do think we’re certainly ready for RTR steam.

Agreed!

Yes, exactly. They would have operated alongside the A, C and B101. All green stock, or silver. Blackntan appeared almost two years after the last K1 was scrapped.

Personally, as many here would know, I would have a list of steam engines I'd like that would almost fit around trump's waist - but practicalities must hold sway. The ideal locomotive to do is one that was - (a) long lived, and can thus be possibly provided in several liveries, although some GSR types entered traffic in grey and were still that way when withdrawn! Included in the "long-lived" category would be engines which even if not that OLD, wereto be seen at the very end of steam, such as a J15 on CIE, but also an NCC "Jeep" for NIR. (b) operated over as wide an area as possible, e.g. a J15 or J18 (c) was used on as many types of traffic as possible - e.g. a mixed traffic type. (d) was reasonably well-known, like a "Bandon Tank". (e) "celebrity" status, such as an 800 or apreserved engine - the latter being usable in a modern setting too, e.g. any RPSI loco I stand to be corrected, but I understand that a variety of liveries assists in selling models, or in some way makes production more economically worthwhile, so I've suggested a few below. A manufacturer will never get it all right, but strictly adhering to as many as possible of the above criteria, it would seem that a reasonable selection of potential projects would be: - Yes, "Maedb". Limited run? GSR green, CIE green, and for 802, the experimental lighter shade of 1952. - A Midland J26 tank. Seen in Tramore (box cab add-on?), "Wisht Caaark" and Kerry, Tralee and environs as well as the MGWR. Shunting and branch line. MGWR lined green, MGWR lined black GSR / CIE grey. - Some sort of GSWR 4.4.0. GSWR lined black, GSR / CIE grey. Also the solitary green one, of a 60 class (I think?) - NCC "Jeep" with LMS lining and NCC lettering; UTA rounded, UTA crest and NIR logo - A J15's been done, otherwise it would be top of the list. Since it as good as sold out, surely that amplifies the case for RTR steam? Also the RPSI's 171, 85 or 461.

The late Marcus Bailie-Gage of Dundalk Works was familiar with this project. He told me that Bullied's designs in Brexitland were received critically with very mixed reviews, as was CC1. Crews complained of very intense heat in the cab, and firing the thing correctly was a bit of a knack, though to be fair to Oliver Bullied, familarity with the best technique would have come with experience, had they been mass-produced. Marcus recounted a tale in which during a trial run, Bullied was becoming increasingly frustrated with the genuine concerns of certain Inchicore "suits" and the loco crew; eventually, when asked about a new issue that tests were showing up as lacking, he "lost the head" and told them, "WELL, FIX IT!!!" before stamping off...! I love these old railwaymen's stories - they all just show up that we're all human throughout the ages! Given these plus other issues referred to in other posts above, it's probable it would have remained a one-off. While the dieselisation process was going on, there were still some in Inchicore who believed that steam could be satisfactorily continued in front-line use until the 1970s. The idea was to eliminate all the old and non-standard engines and standardise as much as possible what was left. It is likely that the three 800s would have been retained, plus the Woolwiches and enough J15s for lighter duties...... So, in "00"; a black 800 with a CIE "roundel" on its tender, anyone? No, I wouldn't dare either.

And a few without preservation with sufficient drawings! One may now officially drool! In a last gasp, as the youngest of the IRM guys retires in 70 years time, the final Irish loco class will be produced RTR...........?? But first, gawd knows - there's so much choice, they could do any one of the six D16 "Achill Bogies"............!

1. All grey until 1945/6, then most lined green. Some remained grey till their demise mid-50s. One lasted to 1960 and that was the end - it was black, as several others were after 1956. 2. Last in 1960. 3. The good news is - everything. These engines were ordered by the MGWR initially, though later ones were really GSR locos, not MGWR. The history of the class is complex and well covered in McMahon & Clements "Big Green Bible". They were originally intended for the Galway and Sligo mail trains, and did run on these and other trains on these lines. I saw some pics recently (very poor ones in a private collection!) of one approaching Sligo in the 1940s with a goods train, though one would have expected them to more often be on passenger trains. Before they were even all delivered, it seems that Cork and Waterford sheds had taken a liking to them, as they spent much of their lives bumbling up and down the main line to Dublin on all sorts of traffic - goods and passenger. They also displaced earlier engines on the scenic Mallow - Waterford line, en route with the "Rosslare Express" between Cork and Rosslare. Again, they could be found on goods trains on this line too, and regularly. No. 388 was specially repainted in its own unique black livery in 1956 for the Rosslare Express; this would be short-lived, with B101 class diesels taking this over very shortly. The stopping passenger train over the Cork - Rosslare route was also "Woolwich" haulage before diesels took over. They could also be seen regularly on beet between Waterford and Limerick Junction, and from there to Thurles. I'm sure I've come across some record of one on a ballast somewhere, but I don't remember the details. This is not exhaustive; the late Billy Lohan regularly had one on the up Galway Day Mail in the late 1940s / early 50s before the AEC sets took over. He reported them as being excellent engines - and Billy didn't dish out such compliments unless well deserved! Given that this is a family forum, I will refrain from quoting him on a number of ex-MGWR types, though other drivers were happy enough with these beasts! They never went north (GNR area), and I have no record of them appearing on the DSER. With a grey, green and black one, you're well set up for a 1956-60 period. Mind you, all still then in traffic were so filthy that they could have been bright purple, lime green, day-glo fluorescent pink and tartan underneath, for all anyone could see! So what type of carriages? ANYTHING then in use. Six-wheelers, wooden bogies (given their operational area, almost entirely of ex-GSW types), Bredins, Laminates, 1952/3 CIE stock, and Park Royals at the end, and in later years tin vans were inevitably present too. No Cravens, obviously, as the first of these entered service almost three years after the last "Woolwich" was withdrawn. That's all i have on that for the moment; hope its helpful. Now; me drinking choc beckons. No pints these days......

Livery note re CIE engines: Three main points: 1. Bar the trio of 800 class, EVERYTHING grey until late 1945. "Flying snails" started appearing on most tenders (not all) from the late 40s, but by the end of steam in '63, many of the still-grey majority of engines had plain tenders. During the early fifties, cast number plates (grey with pale yellow number) had been replaced by light yellow painted numbers. Snails always light green, not yellow. 2. From late 1945, but mostly 1946, main line passenger express engines, Dublin suburban tank engines, and but a VERY few other locos were repainted lined green. Most kept this; but given the number of "Woolwiches" noted in grey or black in the fifties, some were possibly repainted from green - though more likely were never painted green at all. 3. Black - After approximately 1955/6 - exact date not known - many of the locos which were lucky enough to see a paintbrush became black, with or without snails and always with painted numbers. A SOLITARY "Woolwich", 388, gained red lining to0, for use on the "Rosslare Express". The only narrow gauge locos ever painted black appear to be 6T - but only after it went to Ballinamore - and one of the Passage tanks there - I think 12L but I'd need to check. No tank engines of any sort ever carried a "flying snail", bar one CHALKED on a Tralee engine on the C & L by enthusiasts participating in an enthusiast's tour just before the line closed! This green isn't anything like anything CIE used, unfortunately.....! However - in traffic these engines were DISGRACEFULLY dirty all the time, for some reason - certainly never getting the TLC that the 800 class got. Thus, if you were to SERIOUSLY weather the thing - as prototypically - it might look passable! It's your railway, of course, so your rules. But strictly technically, it's the wrong colour.

Some were grey; if you want a grey one, unlined - eau-de-nil "snail", and pale yellow cabside number. Let's see your grey model so we can tell what shade it is...... In Britain, "N" class. Here, they were K1 class!

OK, essay time, having completed siesta! Once upon a time..... That green on the model looks just right, as do the “snail” and number in terms of size and shape etc. The “snail” is indeed the right way round; with extremely few exceptions they were always that way round, with upper bit left, and lower bit right. One of the few exceptions was the OTHER side of tenders, where the upper but was to the right, i.e. pointing forward; the other such exception was the driver’s side of buses and trucks. I can’t tell from the photo above whether the logo on the tender is a yellowy or light green colour. It should be light green; it's worth pointing out here that some model K1 class 2.6.0s (the black ones) and an old Lima 0.6.0 were made with yellow or white flying snails; these are ENTIRELY wrong in all instances. The "snail" logos were a transfer, same as used on buses, and were applied to tenders of green, grey or black variety - thus the flying snail should always be light green, as in this case the number also. Numbers were the same light green on GREEN engines, but pale yellow on grey or black engines!

Indeed - especially in Africa and Asia, and at the behest of a tiny minority of irresponsible British, American and German enthusiast tour leaders! Some crews would accept a little “consideration” in cash, while others refused point blank!