jhb171achill

Interesting. When I cleared out the papers of the late Marcus Bailie-Gage some years ago, there was much in the way of (sadly, damp-destroyed and rat-chewed) brochures from GM and also other diesel loco manufacturers in the 1950s, all relating to their proposed sales to the GNR in Dundalk, where MBG was the Works Manager. I didn't see one exactly like this, but I did see others not dissimilar. MBG told Senior at one stage that had the Northern government seen fit to cough up, they proposed ordering diesels to trial on Belfast - Cavan and Enniskillen. Imagine one of those things above with a string of old wooden GNR coaches - a bizarre thought......

Tony, if you mean those carriages as shown, no - they are standard British Rail Mk 1s in an approximate CIE livery.

Interesting - I was unaware of those.... "N" gauge is the "next big thing" for RTR Irish stuff......hopefully! Given availability of even a few basics, it is a route I would have chosen, simply to get more into less space. I looked at the Shapeways stuff in that scale, but it's far, far too crude - or was when I looked at it, anyway.

And the furry dice! IRM folks - when you do A39 as it is now, I take it you're aware that on the DCDR there has been a tradition for a long time that all locos have furry dice in them! It's true.........goes back to the days of the "E" class being the main power........

You'll need 00 scale models of the Wanderer, the IRRS programme organiser, and certain other Kodak-clad people! And headboards saying "ITG" and "IRRS"....

Just when we thought the bar could not be set any higher..........! Superb!

If it's 5'3", it's almost certainly Brazilian. I know someone who knows a bit about the railways there who might know. At 600hp, it would be a shunter. I wonder if it was built!

If it's liveries we want, beware of Alphagrafix. Many of their colour schemes look very well and are absolutely accurate, but others are either wrong (white lining on green CIE coaches, for example), and one with some sort of yellow line along the waist, whilea few are 100% fictitious! That blue Midland one, to be fair, is close enough.

..........as long as they were in the right livery..........!

Believe me, Midland Man, when you're on the footplate of an engine in motion, you barely notice it!

I'll take them tomorrow and post them. I'll be working in there at some stage during the day probably. He has one of the same set also in GSR maroon. For some reason, none of his MGWR models are in the standard MGWR coach brown. The blue and white looks a lot better of course, but it never reached the vast majority of the fleet at all, and was very short-lived on those which were painted thus. The MGWR maroon livery, used 1918-25, was a very dark shade, much darker than GSR.

Let them finish the “A”s first, Leslie... priorities!

Mighty mighty stuff........ might order that one too!

Modellers will notice that as in grey days, sometimes the cab interior was the same colour as all of the engine instead of some combination of light brown and cream, as used by most companies on most locos. here, the late CIE all-black includes an all-black cab interior!

Superb, Galteemore! Just right for SLNCR. It was one of the last 6-wheelers in regular use, getting a decent repaint as late as the early 50s, by which time paintbrushes had become foreign objects in all areas of the SLNCR, from signal posts to carriages! It seems to have been a very cheap-and-nasty job, though, possibly with no proper preparation of the surfaces, as by closure the coach was in an abominable state cosmetically.

The biggest "missing link" is something Midland, so I'd go for a large MGWR 4.4.0. I am sure that all of us here could also add to a list of wishes regarding a "new build", just as it is all too easy to generate a list on this forum of what new RTR model or kit we would all like - certainly, I have many preferences. However, in all such things, practicalities must come first. Even if there were still unrestored steam engines lying about, there would be at least one of which it could be said that only a madman would think of resurrecting it. This might be due to the weight of it, the absolute impracticality of it being of the slightest use - for example, too small for the main line, too big for Downpatrick, and no room in Cultra! certainly, if all of the 33 engines mentioned initially were all still in existence, there is not even the slightest likelihood that all but low single numbers of them would EVER be restored - and even now, it is likely that at least some would be scrapped. The reality, as I learned well in 25 years of looking after preservation bodies' finances, is that we can't preserve everything, and only a fool would try. Model makers may well (yes, you know who you are!) have their own personal, private lists of what they would like to make available commercially, but the thing has to sell in numbers sufficient to recoup the very significant five-figure sum which has to be coughed up IN ADVANCE of even one being made. But, for new builds and models - even for restoration of scrapheaps on wheels lying in hopefulness at ALL of our preservation sites - we may have our preferences, and there's nothing wrong with dreaming, but best to keep feet on ground at the same time! My idea, as above, for a MGWR 4.4.0 would be ideal in utopia, but of no more use than 171 restored. Thus, the effort is better going into 171. And here we come to the crunch. In steam days, turntables and steam servicing facilities were in every station and junction. Now they are almost non-existent, and anywhere a steam loco goes, great efforts have to be made to deal with it. Turntables - just think - there are but half a dozen left, most no longer operable. Dublin begins and ends the list in the south; Coleraine and Whitehead in the north. NIR would have none - but the RPSI owns the latter two. Then we've a couple of triangles - Limerick Jct. and Gt. Victoria Street - timetable paths permitting. What the RPSI needs is not the romance of more 4.4.0s, much as I hate to say it, but the cold, hard practicalities of tank engines. Most Irish railways used tender engines for main line trains. We have not only got few tank engines left, but even among the world of "new builds" there is little suitable. No. 4, even though for me personally, it was always my least favourite engine, is the most practical - it does not NEED a turntable! THAT is the future! The Sligo tank, "Lough Erne", is useless for longer distance main line trips, even if rebuilt (which it would need in entirety). A new-build BCDR 4.6.4T would be useless for today's conditions. A "Bandon Tank" would be useless for today's conditions. None of the GSWR types would do either. Not one. Thus, a second "Jeep" is by far the most practical option for any new build. A "Mogul" will still be a tender engine, but while it might add a bit of glamour, it won't put one euro more into the coffers than another Jeep would have done. However, with added "X" factor, it also has very many parts, even the boiler, which are interchangeable with No. 4; thus it's a good option for a new-build. Our dreams are best kept that way; mine, of a train of gas-lit non-corridor MGWR & GSWR six-wheelers on the main line, is about as useful as a chocolate teapot!

I wouldn't be surprised if there's something preserved in England from the LNWR which would assist, comparison-wise, with a "new build"!

Yes, that's correct. Hard to know which are in the photo, as the plates have been taken off.

The NRM in York has a full set of Click's pictures of it being built. Very detailed and very technical, but essential for anyone who really wants absolute chapter and verse on it. You have to visit the place and get a researcher to help you - it's not online.

Yes, there was indeed talk of preserving one. I believe No. 6 was considered for some reason now unknown, but it ended up being No. 1. This was too early for the Belfast Transport Museum, so I assume that it was the GNR who planned to preserve it. Shame it didn't happen; an ideal beast to operate at Downpatrick! I think I remember hearing that it was broken up in error.

Technically, they weren't put aside for preservation. They were a "strategic reserve" intend to deal with a possible major breakdown in the new dieselisation programme. They were always intended for scrap once officialdom was 100% happy with all aspects of the new diesel programme, thus the advent of the 121s and 141s sealed their fate. They only scheduled a very few for actual preservation: J15 184 & 186 (Now RPSI) K2 461 (Now RPSI) GNR 131 (Now RPSI) J30 90 (Now DCDR) GSWR 36 (IE, Cork station) GSR 800 (UFTM, Cultra) The latter, 800, was initially scheduled for scrap, but was reprieved following representations by those who had a bit of wit! The MGWR is missing from the above. CIE consider saving a G2 as well, but no particular one was picked, and before any arrangements could be made they were all broken up. I have also heard it suggested that 464, the last "Brandon Tank" was under consideration as well, but this may be wishful thinking on the part of Cork area railway management at the time, and enthusiasts subsequently, as no evidence of such a plan exists. All the other locos were never meant to kept long term, and while the very last of them turned its last wheel in traffic in March 1963, a few (by this time long derelict) were technically only written off in 1965.

The Great Southern green was a different shade entirely CIE green - and was only applied to the three 800s, which only wore it for five or six years before getting CIE green after 1945. Due to the fuel shortage, they weren't even seen out and about much WITHIN that five or six years. Everything else the GSR had was always grey in pre-CIE times. The only example surviving of the actual green paint is on two of Cyril Fry's models in Malahide. Ironically, though, the actual GSR paint is on two models of DIFFERENT classes of loco, which were grey! And his model of 800 is in CIE green.... At some stage I will try to colour-match this paint on these engines so that a RAL number can be ascertained.

I’ve just had half a packet of choccy bikkies, the effect it’s having on me.

For me, a silver one, a green and a plain black. I am preparing a submission for funding to the Dept. of Domestic Expenditure, Matching Curtains and Household Matters for a black-with-yellow and a black’n’tan as well..... The really BIG issue is weathering. In all reality, anything with a Crossley engine in it was inevitably filthy! Genuinely, I’d be looking for a highly professional weathering job on the silver one, but it would have to be to a very high standard to do the model justice.

In all seriousness, has any other manufacturer EVER gone to this much trouble inside cabs?