jhb171achill

That's actually true!

Ah! OK

Is warehouse collection possible? Or mail order better?

No, no four wheelers. For modellers of the pre-1960 period, and indeed the pre-1950 or 1940 period, it’s important to remember one very fundamental difference between Irish and British coach design. The long-wheelbase 24ft to 30ft four-wheelers which ran on MANY British lines, and advertised both above AND by Hattons, were ENTIRELY absent in Ireland. Also, WE may have kept six-wheelers in traffic longer than Britain, but we disposed of OUR four-wheelers, which were of a very much shorter wheelbase (about 20ft), LONG before Britain. Never plentiful in number anyway, the vast majority disappeared by the 1890s, though the MGWR appear to have been using one, and possibly two, as late as the mid 1920s. So none of either the above, nor Hattons FOUR wheelers are remotely suitable for anything Irish. But the 6-wheelers of both have more than an acceptable resemblance to several GSWR types. Not GNR, not NCC, not MGWR, not BCDR, though. The good news is that some stock of this type lasted on CIE until 1963, and a small few of the full brake types only (not passenger carrying ones) made it into black’n’tan livery, largely on Galway mail trains, until 1966/8.

There was a third livery too, with pale yellow lining! Next book will have pics....

Yes, and with model 071s, soon joined by A class locos - and Leslie’s corrugated open wagons, SSM or JM design guards vans, a whole model of a beet factory is now possible! Now THERE’S a shunting layout!!!

Now THAT would be a find.....

No, that’s a well wagon. Different beast entirely. Very important to make the distinction between a WELL wagon, as shown above with equipment on it; and BOLSTER wagons, which were flat wagons. Neither were common and neither were used much. In particular a well wagon would almost never be in any sort of routine traffic; such vehicles were mostly used in maintenance.

That's EXACTLY what I mean! Disgraceful "stewardship" of railway "heritage" by IE. There's a thing called "bunchlo". Seems closest to me. There appears to be nothing that truly is VERY close to it.

It would seem around the time it was actually taken out of "trial" "service"....! It also appears to have been repainted in a dullish shade of green instead of what originally looked like a greeny-grey colour. Possibly they were preparing it for service but the traffic department had other ideas. It worked a trial goods train as well, I believe, but I can't place the details.

No, that’s a well wagon. Different beast entirely.

Whew! Thought it might have been "preserved" in - a bar in Manhattan or Chicago..............

Here we go: Nice TYPICAL rural Irish 1970s train too. Two laminates - of different types - (three on some lines e.g. Limerick - Waterford) and a hot water bottle. GSR enamel bilingual sign (on BOTH platforms) too. Wonder what happened them - could they have ended up in a bar in Noo Yawk?

Re. the GSWR bolster: Check out (online) the Father Browne collection - there's a pic of it at 11.90.25, though how to isolate that one out of 75000 images is beyond me!

What size is it? Hard to tell from original photo in which it looked too small to be a level crossing lamp. With the red lenses, which weren't visible in the first pic, that definitely tends to tie it to some sort of "open / shut" access idea - a level crossing being obvious if it IS railway related. Is it big enough, though?

Had a yarn with Barry - those pics shown above that we had in the book are actually his best ones of that shed, he says - actually, I think they're adequate for the model?

Wonder where that large pic of a 111 went to! Very "officey" looking - reminds me of my former employment life.......good riddance!

These wagons were indeed uncommon in Ireland, as were all bogie wagons of any sort prior to the 1970s. The few bogie flats we DID have - I have seen a pic of a MGWR one somewhere, though it could be a relic of the Bretland train. I don't know what the Midland used it for, and I don't know if there were more than one. The GSWR had some sort of bogie flat too - again, I'm unaware of any details but I saw a pic of a bogie once! The GNR had the bogie Guinness vans - again, very few in number and confined to one specific traffic. There were at least two cariations of the design. The closest I can see to anything that ran here is this, but it's VERY much a "two-foot-rule" job. Paint it grey and put "G N" or "G S" on it, or a tiny "flying snail", and you're good to go: https://www.dapol.co.uk/shop/oo-gauge/wagons-OO-Gauge/OO-Gauge-Bogie-Bolster-E This Bachmann one is NOT even remotely close to anything Irish: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1157802238?iid=203210768422 Now, there's a difference between wagons WITH bolsters and those without! The Dapol one above has them attached, but something tells me they look entirely wrong for Ireland. Without any clear knowledge of any regular sort of use for a beast like this, it's impossible to know whether the few bogie flats had them at all, or were even suitable to fit them to. If we look at the GNR grain bogie currently under restoration at Whitehead, we can see the short-wheelbase bogies which were similar to what I saw under the Midland one which lurks in my past memory. Also, they were short body length - something between 30ft and 40ft, I guess. Among Cyril Fry's models there is a bogie flat also, I think of GNR origin. The bolsters are very much smaller than in the Dapol model. With the museum closed at the moment, I'm not sure when I'll next be in. I do have a few bits of work to do there, but they are not urgent nor in the public eye, so I don't know when that will be, but I will post pics of this model when I can. The County Donegal Railways had one at least, as well. Really, in all reality, in modelling goods trains pre-1970 anywhere in Ireland, broad or narrow gauge, and going WAY back, one can take it as a rule of thumb that roughly half of all non-passenger stock are four wheeled goods vans of all sorts of types. Of the remainder, it may safely be assumed something over half of them in cattle trucks, and the rest open wagons. In the last 15 years or so of loose-coupled goods trains, the cattle wagons began to vanish like snow off a ditch, and were seen on fewer and fewer lines, so a 1960s goods train will be mostly vans - possibly 65% - and opens. As will be appreciated, tank wagons were also very few and far between, and entirely absent from many (or most!) routes.

Found it; this from the P Dillon collection: (Seven four-wheelers was the maximum allowed load).

Yes - in all reality, a 1960s CIE passenger train without one is as unrealistic as one without a locomotive - or a goods train without a brake van. I've 4 but I need another 4......

Yip - at THAT time there was that one, another in West Cork, and another in Tralee, from what I can gather. It’s more than possible they weren’t the only ones. Once the standard CIE 20T and 30T ones multiplied in number, CIE withdrew all non standard ones (most of which were either too small, or clapped out anyway) as quickly as they could. A handful of GNR vans went into CIE use but only for 2 or 3 years - I’m only aware of 1 or 2 even being repainted with a “flying snail” - but Leslie has a model of that TOO!

Yes - they got very scruffy in that livery. It was too light to be remotely practical - and when the 121s were new they were still surrounded by steam engines when on shed.... As our good American friends might say, “go figure”! La Grange, Illinois, had almost totally done away with all steam when the 121s were being painted pale grey and yellow!

Note the rolling stock. In the first pic, the second wagon is an old GSWR low-roofed “soft-top” of 1890s origin. A handful of these were still to be seen up to just about into the 1960s. In the above (colour) pic, looks like a GNR coach now in CIE green. In the final pic, we’ve one of Leslie’s GSWR guards vans. At least one of these appears to have been use well into the 1960s.

Leave it with me - I'll post here when I get something. With the lockdown I can't nip round to his house right now, but I'm on the phone every few days.

I will ask Barry if he has other views of this shed if you like?