jhb171achill

Yes, you're right - most with a grey background (which, strangely, the manufacturer doesn't do) - but only because most engines were grey right until almost the end. By the time they started painting any engines black or green, the numberplates were replaced by painted numbers, so that with the exception of the 800 class, grey is the only show in town for numberplates - with only a very few exceptions which (a) kept numberplates into the late 50s, AND got painted black. The wording "Inchicore Works" and the build date varied from engine to engine after the amalgamation, though all GSWR locos had both. An ex-DSER, Midland, West Cork or narrow gauge engine might have "G S R" (and a handful had "C I E" later, but it varied. Colours: If the loco is grey, the numberplate is grey. Black or red backed numberplates on grey locos are simply as wrong as lime green CIE roundels. But, of course, a few exceptions! This one, "A few had the backgrounds painted black with the lettering and borders picked in red...." is not at all certain, and if there is any substance in it would certainly not have been in late GSR or CIE times - possibly early GSR (late 20s). 1. The 800 class. Initially, all three had dark blue backgrounds, uniquely. No. 800 retained these always. Nos 801 and 802 - again, uniquely - had theirs repainted red background sometime in the early 50s, and retained these to the end. 2. Ex-MGWR "E" / J26 No. 560. This engine appears to have been painted black in the late 50s, but kept its cast numberplates. However, in the early 1990s I owned one of its numberplates (wish I had kept it) and whoever the previous owner was, had scrubbed it back to the grey paint. There were a very small number of other locos like this, but once an engine was repainted by CIE, off went the plates. 3. CIE repaints. Between 1945 and 1962, CIE repainted some engines green: numberplates ALL removed, except the 800s, in place of light green painted numbers. Some grey: numberplates replaced by light yellow painted numbers. Some black: ditto - yellow painted numerals. So there is a fundamental error in a number of manufactured plates I've seen, in that the backgrounds are BLACK; this incorrect - if the loco still has a numberplate, it means it's still in GSR guise, thus grey ONLY. The raised edges and numbers on cast plates was normally outlined in pale yellow, but occasionally just painted over plain grey, sometimes *(as Senior observed) polished bare metal (which would have just got filthy!) and possibly (unconfirmed) other variations. However, if you want a red-backed plate, or a black-backed one, you're way back into GSWR times. Up to about 1900, when GSWR locos were green, numberplates were black-backed, and between then and about 1915, when GSWR locos were lined black, they were red. Perhaps the manufacturer might do them grey? Black or red would only be of use to GSWR modellers.

In response to a question, the stock in the train above is typical of the period; this train containing green laminates, a Park Royal, and (out of sight) at least one Bredin, more laminates of several types and what looked like a dirty silver tin van at the rear. I focussed in on the loco, as I will in the coming days. Today's picture, sticking with the "A" class, this at Mallow. The light green paint on the line along the side, and the "snail", have worn off - many photos show this line weathering badly, even when the main body colour was still smart enough. Mail van attached, still in "silver". Modeller's details: Water column on left, still very dirty / weathered green. Note the roof of the TPO. It looks black. It is important to note that like domes on blue GNR engines, or red Donegal engines, although these often LOOKED black, this was 100% dirt, and in all three cases were NEVER actually painted black. Similarly, silver coaching stock and locos never had black bogies - always also silver - but covered in gunge, gunk, oil and brake dust. Silver (unpainted) stock, despite being new, would on occasion still be steam hauled. Good luck with a clean roof on that one! This pic is the Kerry mail, so it will have about three passenger-carrying coaches behind it, plus one or two - or being a mail train maybe more - tin vans. More tomorrow.

From the P Dillon / C Fry collection, I’ve fished out a few guess which I’ll post over the coming days to illustrate the “A” (and, for good measure, the B101s) in the 1958-64 period. I do jig have to hand exact dates for each individual one. These are cropped to show maximum detail on the loco and what “goes with them”. I hope this is of interest. Firstly; A7. The copyright for ALL of these that I will post in the coming days belongs to Hassard Stacpoole or Patricia Dillon.

Indeed - not great. The grey one has the “wrong dirt in the wrong places”, perhaps; are these things “factory-done”? In real life, with a livery as impractical as pale grey and yellow for a locomotive (and initially still surrounded by steam engines!), this livery got filthy quickly.

No idea - probably the same reason but maybe different locations.

Yes, they were - only a few cars (for all I'm aware maybe only one) got them. And it did run in West Cork on some occasions, as I've seem pics of it at Bantry and Albert Quay. However in the above pic, that's a shadow of telegraph wires - you'll see it goes right along the roof. Roofs were normally black. Yes, arrival 2.30pm in Cork. Tail lamp on railcar. The AEC cars were given a trial on the Valentina branch (though never used there). They needed the wider buffers for sharp curves. Some bogie coaches were fitted with them too.

A guy I met in a pub told me............

It will indeed, Robert - many congratulations!

Those look like tar tankers. No wonder the Park Royal Guinness tasted like antelope poo.

Anything inside it?

Bet you'd rather have an AEC set drifting down into Bantry!

It’s because the box is still with it....

That’s of big interest to me with a small South African shunting layout in progress.....

Did they clean the novichok off the seat?

Maybe it’s the pills I’m on, or advancing senile bewilderment, but even I would be tempted to buy one of those silver pipes on wheels, as a curio to remind me of regular travel between Galway and Dublin in recent years. But it would have to have a working model of the tea trolley, its Eastern European staff, and REAL kitkats.

Rather than grain wagons....? I think some of those opens with the curved tops to the ends were still kicking about in the 1930s, and possibly longer - you'd never know what you'd find hiding long forgotten in some nook or cranny siding in West Cork.

Absolutely superb stuff all round. Love your realistic brickwork texture.

That is precisely the reason. Once they were in use, daily grime became the livery. All railway companies had their own “corporate image”, just like today. Manufacturers often dolled things up to look good in photos (e.g. locomotives with elaborately lined “works grey”), but these were not the way they went into traffic, as companies wanted them in their standard colours. Painters wages were cheap! The first-ever “Woolwich” was repainted in full twice before it ever turned a wheel.....

We'll let them off with it!

While my personal knowledge is almost non-existent of these coloured pipes that run along railways in England, I am well aware that they've a following - and will do even more in the future, I would guess. Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to do a basic bodyshell, or possibly a suitable profiled end that could be stuck onto a British one as a replacement end to the correct profile? We can make a very good conversion of a steam engine from one type to another completely different prototype by changing the cab and side tanks........

Maybe they're not high enough in the Pekking order for the magazine to spel corecktly?

Nice job!

While it was conventional to paint horse boxes in passenger livery, this was usually without any lining! So you're safe on that front! Just lettering and number; in the case of both the MGWR and GSR, a gold-yellow colour, shaded. I think I've seen a pic somewhere of one of these with a GSR crest added, but it would not have been typical; maybe a one-off, so you're safe there too! Because its passenger livery, black chassis / wheels / solebars is correct. If you wanted to have it in wagon livery, obviously the whole thing would be grey.

From photographic evidence, Mansell wheels on anything appear to have been varnished wood when new. However after a short time in traffic (like white lead carriage roofs), it was anything but - just a dirty grey / black colour. It is probable they were painted black or grey (depending on body colour, perhaps) at first repaint, as I inspected up to half a dozen samples years ago which were all of either MGWR or GSWR origin, and found what appeared to be black paint under all the gunk. The Ranks' grain trucks would as you say be a totally different animal, and didn't stay red long; apart from that, I was unaware of them visiting West Cork - if so, a rare visitor, I would think, as grain was carried generally in standard wagons. The CBSCR appears to have generally used a dark grey for all goods stock, somewhat darker than CIE. Older vehicles, back in CBSCR days - varnished Mansell wheel centres and white-rimmed wheels would have been delivery livery. After only days in traffic, that was no more to be seen! And, as I say, inspections of the real thing plus photos suggest early paint applied to these wooden bits. Black ironwork on wagons is an invention of Welsh preserved lines and Hornby. While examples of "oddball" one-offs and the very few private owner liveries in Ireland did have this type of embellishment, normal wagons in normal traffic would never have had ironwork picked out in black. Regarding the ones you describe - did you mean the CIE Ranks ones? For 2mm gauge, these vehicles - all of them - are quite simply the very best modelling in that scale that I have EVER seen. That pic would do credit to 0 gauge! The undercoat colour you have would indeed suffice, though it's lighter than the grey used. If you weather it badly - which would be absolutely prototypical - it'll match perfectly! As to the horse boxes - the chassis is fine. Horse boxes and carriage trucks were very usually painted by most Irish railway companies in passenger livery, hence MGWR ones were brown initially. After 1918 they were maroon, and from what I understand, it would fade quite quickly to match exactly what you have. So, the above is correct either for 1918-25 MGWR livery, OR GSR livery. Chassis would be black, as these were in passenger livery. The general rule for most irish companies is - goods livery has chassis same colour as body and ironwork; passenger livery has black chassis. So that horse box is fine as it is. SOME horse boxes could be wagon grey in CIE days, but most seemed to have passenger livery. (Laterally this meant exceptionally badly worn, bleached and faded remains of CIE green - and some grey).

Approaching Malahide this evening.....