jhb171achill

True, but very limited use - there were only two of 'em, and one didn't even last that long.... and both spent their entire lives, bar a trial run or two, pushing trucks about Belfast Docks and York Road station......

I'm absolutely with you on that! Each to their own, of course, but as you'll have gathered here, that sort of detail (plus livery accuracy for relevant items / period) would by my version of it..... There is, of course, preservation. I am aware of several layouts based in modern times (e.g. Tara Junction) where RPSI specials with heritage diesels crop up now and again, or steam engines. Mayner's recent survey included an option for a model of 171 - outside most modeller's time period when in GNR use, but appropriate for modern image with a few preserved RPSI carriages behind it. Very many thanks, much appreciated. I will pass your comments on to Barry as well.

Of the wooden-planked variety, probably mid or late 1970s. However, it's your layout!

Yes, very much so. In West Cork it would be a "Bandon Tank". Naturally, in early diesel days a cattle special would most likely be an "A" class. I was told a story once - might have been Bob Clements but I've forgotten - of a special to Ballinasloe from somewhere down the GSWR branch - Portarlington maybe, or Port Laoise direction. Athlone was to supply loco and crew. This is in the early 1940s, and with the Achill branch closed, a couple of the light 4.4.0 "Achill Bogies" (D16) had been transferred in there. Anyway, Athlone had nothing but a hapless D16 for this job. It could barely move the train, and once it got it going, could hardly stop it from even the very sedate pace which was all the loco could persuade it to move at. Highly descriptive language was uttered by many that day, and a local instruction was issued to the effect that under NO circumstances was one of these ever to be used on a special again.......

Didn't know about the North Wall one! I suppose the one that was kicking about for YEARS in Inchicore is probably gone too by now?

A few of us have seen this project with great interest. I contacted them to enquire about a run of CIE-liveried ones and got a very positive reply. These things are being produced in a number of British liveries, but while BCDR, DSER, CBSCR, MGWR and GNR six-wheelers had nothing remotely similar running in Britain which could be repainted, the GSWR - conveniently our largest company - DID have a couple of designs which bore a reasonable ("2-ft rule") resemblance to these Hattons things. Thus, a CIE-liveried one, along with the SSM and Worsley kits, would fill a VERY large hole in Irish railway modelling - the bog-standard six-wheeler, to be seen EVERYWHERE into the early 1960s. If anyone else is interested in expressing support for any sort of Irish run of them, this is the man to contact: Dave Mylett Exclusive Commissions Manager Hattons Model Railways Ltd 17 Montague Road Widnes Cheshire WA8 8FZ 0151 733 3655 www.hattons.co.uk

A UTA "Jeep" is essential! I would take two.........even though they're not my favourite locos by far, and my model world is deep south CIE!

I'm only seeing this now.... The SLNCR had two ex-DNGR six-wheelers - of their ORIGINAL stock, which I think may have had straight sides, unless I'm mixing it up with something else. They did purchase a few six-wheelers from the GNR - never bogies - but they did at one time HIRE a couple of GNR bogies for quite a while - possibly several years. Exact details didn't survive. From time to time, the impression may have been given that they got more GNR coaches than they did, because if they were expecting a lot of people (pilgrimage specials being one major source of passengers but only a few times a year), they would simply borrow some for the day. I believe that these were often secondary stock stored at Clones - again, usually six-wheelers. I don't believe any GNR (or any other) corridor coaches ever traversed the line, let alone, of course, any catering vehicle. The GSR or CIE would occasionally lend them coaches too. In one of C P Friel's books an excursion may be seen entering Enniskillen with two green CIE-liveried Midland six-wheelers in the train makeup - thus CIE green and "flying snails" were seen in Enniskillen; the latter not only on good wagons.

Have a look at this; a good basis for anything West Cork. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157704311359882/page1

Ernie Shepherd's book will give track diagrams, albeit drawn in a manner not easy to read. You're in a good position having NO rolling stock, as almost nothing you might have bought would be close to what's needed! In terms of radius, the wider the better. Sometimes space necessitates curves WAY sharper than they ever would be in real life, but we all have to work with what space we have. So, what space is available will dictate anything you do next. Will you want your layout to be a continuous circuit, or end-to-end? A "C" class is as essential to a West Cork layout of any sort as a 141 or 071 is to a 1980s one. In short, without it the whole thing is unrealistic from the start. Thus, the next question is to what degree of actual authenticity do you want to build it? If your bar is high, it's scratchbuilding virtually every item of rolling stock - there are a few kits, but not many. Among the kits: Studio Scale Models do an ex-Midland "E" (or J26) class 0.6.0T tank engine - a couple of these worked on the West Cork system in the early to mid 1950s. There's also a kit of a CBSCR "C2" class 4.6.0T "Bandon Tank". Leslie McAllister's ("Provincial Wagons") GSWR guards van - needed on ends of goods trains. Obviously, there were never any fitted goods trains! Leslie's goods vans - the old GNR one and above all the standard CIE "H" van - easy kits, and inexpensive. Then, Leslie's cattle trucks, CIE type - in this case, not GNR types. Then, a few repainted Hornby open wagons, but for sugar beet, the standard corrugated open wagons CIE used for decades. By now, you've a good selection of Irish goods stock. You needn't worry too much about flat wagons or tank wagons, and no bogie wagons of any sort. And, by now, Leslie owes me a pint of two! British (Hornby OR Bachmann) cattle trucks aren't remotely like anything that ran here, but if budgets are limited, get a load of those with shorter wheelbases. Studio Scale Models (SSM) in Ennis do a nice CIE brake van - brass kit. So, you've locomotives and wagons. Carriages, however, are the problem. If you are pre-1950, you're goiung to need six wheelers, all of different types, with only one or two 35-45ft bogies of particularly antiquated design. Longer, more modern coaches didn't work in West Cork much, and the smaller branch lines couldn't take them anyway. So, laminates or Park Royals were rarities, and only to be seen on the main line in ones or twos amongst the elderly 6-wheelers. Several OLD bogie coaches were used though - there was one old GSWR side-corridor composite and at least two ex-MGWR bogies, though one, I think was gone in the early 50s. All of these you'd have to build from scratch - though SSM do some GSWR six-wheelers as brass kits, which would do. There's nothing British which is close to what ran there, as in "quick Hornby repaint", if you crave accuracy - but if not, the "2-ft rule", or "Rule No. 1" ("It's MY railway!) will certainly allow the likes of the GWR Ratio kits in shabby CIE green, perhaps. SSM, again, do kits of several GSR "Bredin" types. Several of these ran on the main line, but not the branches. If your layout is meant to represent the GSR era, it's all steam and six-wheelers. If you're into the '50s, and with a "C" class this seems a "given", you will need six-wheelers (plus the obligatory "tin van"; see JM Design's forthcoming re-release of these; Silverfox do a version too). If you are doing a main line station, by the "C" class era, all passenger trains on the main line were operated by an AEC railcar set, usually running as a 3-piece, but occasionally 2. This absolutely essential piece of kit has thus far eluded kit-makers as well as ready-to-run - but it is as totally critical to a 1950s CIE layout as an ICR is to a post 2010 layout. In the absence of such a thing, Silverfox do an amended British railcar which (for the 2-ft rule) is a passingly acceptable version. A 2-car will suffice; maybe put one of SSM's "Bredins" or "laminate" coaches in as a centre car, too. I hope that all assists with choosing stuff. Liveries - easy. Steam engines all FILTHY very dark grey, no matter what they are. No lined green ones ran down here! Wagons - all grey, full stop. The yellow and black stripes on guard's vans weren't invented until about 1963/4, and nothing brown until 1970/1. No cement bubbles - these didn't appear until several years after the lines all closed. Carriages: all green; three variations. (a) Dark CIE green with lining, (b) mid-green from 1955 on, and (c) secondary stock in the form of at least two prehistoric old bogies coaches were, in later days, painted the older dark green but with no lining. The "tin vans" are an essential part of the scene on ALL passenger trains bar the railcar, but sometimes tagged onto the end of a set to carry parcels. These were unpainted, and thus a complete coat of nondescript weathering is all you need. The "C"'s were unpainted at first, and got into an appalling state of filth - again, a nondescript greyish coat of gunk is the livery; see photos! The later "C"s entered traffic in the green, tough; they didn't end up too clean either! Now, if you look at that pic posted above, you have the "perfect" Wisht Caaark train. 1. Dirty green "C" class 2. "Silver"(!) passenger brake van ("tin van"). This thing looks brown, but it is...SILVER! See the filthy state? In reality, a 1050s layout needs weathering and dirt to actually look authentic, as much as it does any livery. 3. The old GSWR bogie coach, regularly on this line. This is in the same green as the locomotive, but badly faded. Most branch trains in West Cork were this; a tin van for the guard and parcels, and one coach. 4. The wagons. The first and third are standard "H" vans, with a quite new corrugated open in between. It's only clean because they were building these things NEW at the time! 5. Then you've a couple of cattle trucks and covered van, followed by a couple of open wagons. 6. Then two reasonably clean "H" vans - probably quite new - these showing the correct shade of grey for wagons - ALL wagons; the OTHERS are all this colour too, just FILTHY! 7. The guard's van is a standard CIE 20T - as mentioned above, you'll notice no yellow and black stripes at this stage. Hopefully all of the above is of some interest. With kits, you'll get all of the above bar the carriage, and sure you can get some sort of oul crate of a coach to suit! For contrast, get the Silverfox two-coach railcar, perhaps? CIE green, of course; the black'n'tan livery only ever appeared on the entire West Cork system in the form of a "C" hauling the demolition train several years after it all closed. A nice "might-have-been", though; had it survived, you would be doubtless be jolting along in a 2600 to Skibbereen today, as IE and the Minister for Transport worked hard and diligently late into the night to try to dream up ways to close it, build a housing estate over its terminus asap, and hand the rest over to the Lycra Cycle Mafia (the LCM - a proscribed organisation) with indecent haste..... Maybe it was better going in 1961!

You need to be wary of Maureens. I've one too, and railway stuff is banished to small corners under executive orders from that source.......

It will have, Rob - though in an attic..... There's about 15ft square to play with. But for how long can I manage the steps? Need to get it all done pronto pronto; the clock ticks onward!

Depending on how many shekels I have left after a house move in two days' time, it is certainly something which would interest me. Having said that, it's worth remembering that our lovely friends in taxation will add €120 to it, for sending it here from Noo Zealand........ Maybe as a special treat, but I have indicated willingness in the survey. As John says, an investment.

Indeed - Barry is now on the Journal’s editorial committee..... Join the IRRS, folks! Each journal has interesting photos and articles, as well as current news, not that there’s much of THAT compared with times past!

Same basic design, but the later ones were like the pic. Mayner’s model is if the earlier builds. All ran, of course, as a common fleet. The last time I personally saw a timber-planked one in use was possibly about 1972, but since a few anyway survived to get the brown paint, they might have been in traffic to possibly ‘74/5.

That's the Tardis. The Dr. was driving the 15:10 Cullybackey - Wellington Bridge Bulk Turnip train that day............. How about two horseboxes and a black'n'tan loco at Limerick Junction! Was perusing that pic the other day chez Carse........

That would be easy - these vans were mostly all grey, top to bottom, all of their lives. The few that made it past 1970 got all over brown. The wasp stripes on the duckets started appearing about 1964 - plain grey before that. This would be just after "snails" had been replaced by "roundels" - which were the all-white type, not the ones with the tan surrounds, which were only on palvans and H vans. By late 60s, all grey, roundels, and wasp stripes. Roofs often looked much darker due to exhaust weathering but when new were same grey as sides and chassis. Brown starts to appear in 1970s, complete, of course with wasp stripes.

Like me........!

Where we were coming from - Barry Carse has been taking pictures of every aspect of Irish railways, almost entirely in colour, since 1964. I’ve know Barry for over forty years and we often talked about doing a joint book on one thing or another, over the years. His pics, my writings. In both books, the overwhelming majority of pics are his; only one or two of mine, but a few from Barry’s frequent travelling companions in the 1970s, Richard Wall and his brother David Carse. Over the years, I’d go round to his house the odd evening and he’d get the slide projector out and run through a few boxes. Many (indeed, most) pics would be analysed for a million things..... ”What’s that wagon on the right?” ”I never knew a 101 went there - when did you take that? What was he doing there?” ”Look - that’s an old GNR van in the train.....long way from home!” ”See that second carriage? Must be one of the last in that livery - what date was it again?” ”Who’s that fella beside the signal cabin - what’s he doing?” .........and so on..... So “Rails Through The West” was born after the pair of us cycled the Achill branch......dunno if my back could cope with that now. ”North Kerry” followed. Next? Well, should time permit........we MIGHT have a serious treat for rail freight fans of the 1970-90 period.....

Indeed, me too; steam engines were NEVER pristine in traffic, and the above job looks 100% realistic! Absolutely brilliant job! Lovely engine - I'd love to have had a spin behind one..... fastest narrow gauge engines in Ireland, and they look it!

Mogul, should you wish to use pics from either of those books on here, and for the purposes of illustrating a point you're making like the above, you are very welcome indeed to do so. (I'm one of the two named on the cover!) It's still in print but running low. If you want a copy please PM me - I still have a few new ones. Alternately, contact the publisher direct - Colourpoint, Newtownards, Co. Down. Malcolm or Wesley Johnston are the people to speak to.

Naughty diseasel people! I posted a few pics a while back, I think....

Where do you buy that stuff?

When I saw that headline about voting, I was worried in case it was Trumpty Dumpty joining IRM.....!

The views along the line are just magical. As 142 comes out of the tunnel and goes along past the telegraph pole, the scenery is especially realistic - the sort of hillside covered in ferns that you see all over the place. How did you do the ferns type of stuff on the slope? (I can feel the midges coming after me already.............!)