jhb171achill

Brilliant, thanks!

I don't recall that, John - it was certainly never formally discussed. It's possible there were informal conversations about it though. Had it happened, Mike, what would now be there would be a line to the lake shore, with trains operated by SLNCR "B", NCC 1, with a G and 2 MGWR six wheelers as back up. And - would you believe - possibly a 2750 on loan from IE! There's a story behind THAT too!

C class!!

Yes, they are / were; always. On Eoin's comparison, the right hand one looks better. The actual colours available seem to veer between either to yellowy or too much blue - see avatar left for exact version. The lining - the single line on the lighter green livery is , I think 3 inches thick. Maybe 2 1/2. If anyone is close to Downpatrick or has access to the heritage RPSI set in Dublin, or the CIE green dining car at Whitehead, that can be measured. For the earlier green livery, the band above the windows looks to be about 8 or maybe 9 inches thick. The band below the windows is wider on the Bachmann coach model - this is entirely incorrect - it should be much narrower, possibly 6 inches. I will try to ascertain this. As can be seen on the film clip, on both buses and carriages the EDN bands were edged with black and gold. On snails and numerals, lined gold.

Correct. Lined ones on tenders of steam engines,* buses, road lorries, all carriages in older dark green, and some in the lighter post-55 green. Unlined on other lighter green coaches, and painted (smaller) on wagons prior to about 1955-ish; light green before that date, white after. Narrow gauge - West Clare generally no snails at all, but certainly in later years where present (and that was few!) unlined. The C & L had both lined and unlined. (* Note: Beware the incorrect tender "snails"; they were never, ever white, yellow, cream or gold! The short-lived RPSI yellow snails on 461 and 184 in the 1990s were entirely incorrect. It's the cabside numerals that were pale yellow only...) Yes. I do think, given all the posts above, that differing computer screens among all of us make online comparisons unreliable. To an extent. Initially done, they were all the same as paints were mixed with accuracy, and if we are looking at "snails", they were all standard transfers from Tearnes of Birmingham. Different lighting and wear and tear can make colours look "flatter" as some pigments fade quicker than others. Again, I think the solution to this will be a field visit, and again I would offer that if anyone here can match accurately from an actual example I can lend a suitable actual paint sample.

Could be the computer screens..... Possibly best to look at original. What I might do is take a scoot up to Enniskillen some day. I actually have a bit of metal at home here with the dark green on it. If anyone has the technology or something, to copy it accurately, please ping me and I'll make it available.

I'm fascinated by that tatty weathered finish to the shed doors also...what way did you do it? The buildings I'll be starting on soon will ideally look like that - somewhat "seen better days" look!

And long may you make your pronouncements, Robert! NIR actually use "train station" on their signage in several locations!

Looking at that chart, the 216 and 226 that I was quoted don't look right at all. The EDN is too yellowy by far, and the 226 too dark - it's more like UTA green.

Shows the difference in photos. Its the exact same transfer on the sides of carriages in the film, as on the board shown above. As others say, it's not easy to judge these things on a computer screen. The "Quiet Man" was filmed under floodlights; this actually (to my eye) makes the main body green somewhat brighter - but a newly painted carriage would, like a newly painted anything, look brighter. Looking at the above, and bearing in mind the vagaries of computer screens, Eoin's enhancement looks pretty good - though if I may split hairs (and I know this could descend into tiresome minutae!), something between that railtec transfer above, and the shade shown up of Eoin's enhancement, seems to fit both my own (vivid) recollection, and photos, including of the board above. I would add, in relation to the board, it hung on jhbSenior's wall all through my childhood and until a few years ago. Thus, I saw it in daylight, artificial light, bright, sunny, dark and gloomy conditions, so it's sort of ingrained in what little grey matter I have left......! It now adorns the wall of headhunter's Railway Museum in Enniskillen, along with much of the rest of his collection. Many, though by no means all, of the other coats of arms etc that are on display there are mounted on boards painted with the actual paint of the railway concerned, and two or three are actually cut out of coach sides. So for livery freaks like me, there is much information to be had on Headhunters' walls.... To my eye, and given the restrictions of computering screens, the best matches seem to be all on the top row, as follows: Best - the extreme end, i.e. top right, or the one to the left of it. Passable maybe - middle of the third lot (n175 C).

Superb! Brings me back..... I had something similar... I made a "laminate brake" out of cardboard, using copper wire glued onto it to imitate beading between panels, which worked well enough, though nowhere close to being comparable to anything seen today. This vehicle still sees use on Layout-of-Nephew. The sight of it behind a Murphy 141, though, would give me the collywobbles and screaming fits. Yes, the telephone wires.....rising, falling, rising, falling.......... and was that A42 just passed us with the loose-coupled goods on the other line? (These Park Royals are draughty oul things....)

I don't remember that appearing officially, as it were, at committee level (I was on the management committee then). It's possible that it was discussed informally by someone though. The Belcoo proposal was about the same time, and what happened there was that it was mentioned as a "request likely to be made shortly", and no objection was forthcoming, the actual request never came about. However, a request WAS made to CIE for Railcar B, then at Mallow, and was agreed to, as was a request for the MGWR 6-wheeler at Whitehead, No. 62M. This coach was then privately owned, and the owner was very much in favour of it going to Belcoo, but events overtook. The Belcoo scheme was dropped due to landowner's "local politics" issues, despite funding being there! Shortly afterwards, the private owner donated 62M to the RPSI, so that had a future request been made it would have been dealt with by the RPSI according to their then policies for such things. For info, I was asked to advise the Belcoo scheme from a railway operational perspective, and Selwyn Johnston of Enniskillen was a leading light in it too. The scheme would have consisted of exactly a mile and a half of line restored from Belcoo, opposite the old station (to avoid reinstating the level crossing) and over the river (and from Fermanagh into Cavan) to a terminus at the picnic site at Lough MacNean lake shore. It would have been a lovely line. Rolling stock was to have included Railcar B, with as a companion, NCC No. 1 - an old railcar line. NCC 1, owned by the RPSI, was in the opinion of then commiottee members, fair game, and it is reasonable to assume that loan agreement would then have been forthcoming. The restoration of both was estimated and included in what became a successful European funding application. ERDF money, Peace money, Fermanagh District Council money, and EU cross-border funding were all available. A new booking office would have been built in the adjacent community centre in Belcoo, and a two-road shed built behind it for the stock. On the station side of the road, the old goods shed, now long gone, was stull standing, and would become a museum, into which "Lough Erne" would go, along with small exhibits. The O'Dolan sisters were on board, amenable to the track being relaid along the old platform, should it be possible to reinstate the level crossing at some stage. In the end, we got them a GNR signal which stands there to this day. In addition to the railcars, the MGWR six wheeler would have been operable, and one G class and an old carriage chassis as a "work train" flat wagon would complete the rolling stock. Had the thing progressed, I would imagine another six-wheeler, probably from Mallow, would have arrived there. Trains would have consisted of a railcar on its own, or towing a six-wheeler. Gardner engines were sourced in England, of identical type, one each to be fitted into both of the railcars to have them standard, and a third was to be sought out as a spare. All in all, I think it would have made a very nice set-up indeed, and importantly for rural Irish railway heritage, as cheap as possible to operate. No pretensions towards steam haulage were to be made, though had the thing been a runaway success, I am sure a request for the Guinness engine or "Harvey" would have been made to Whitehead in due course. I think I still have all the details somewhere.

I had gone to Jim initially. He told me he is out of CIE green and it was in fact he who suggested Derek Farrelly, and in turn Derek suggested Vinny Byrne!

I have found the codes for CIE's original darker green and also the lighter "eau de nil". Apparently, Vinny Byrnes of Santry and Ballyfermot can make it up. Dark body colour: BS 381C 226 Lighter shade for snails, numerals and lining: BS 381C 216

This layout oozes more atmosphere, and historically accurate atmosphere, than most; I've said it before and I'll say it again. I also look forward to watching it develop. I'm interested in the building adjacent to the little oil siding, as my layout will have such a feature to give me an excuse for a weekly oil wagon arriving with CIE bus fuel. Is the small brick building based on any such prototype?

Hahahahaha!!! Scale wise, I'm happy enough. Since my thing is based in rural Wisht Kaaaark or Kerry-boy, any appearance of that yoke will only be following its visit to Inchicore to be drenched in green! The big question is, do you allow me to have it haul a Provincial Wagons GNR goods van with, ehhmm, a "flying snail" on the side? Sacrilege, I know; but at least I'm not putting anything GNR in BR blue or NIR "red bull" livery! GNR men must have cried into their soup, or fallen down with doses of the Multiple Conniptions, Screaming Fits, and Advanced Heebie-geebies when they saw the solitary GNR diesel painted in CIE green...... I never asked jhb171senior. While he couldn't be bothered with mere diesels, I didn't want to risk adverse effects on his blood pressure and strength of stomach.....!

Derek recommends a supplier called Vinny Byrne's, who has outlets in Ballyfermot and Santry. He tells me that if they are given that code they'll make it up. I don't know, however, if there's a minimum quantity. I'd be happy to join in with anyone else to get a supply if that's necessary. I would think a matt version would be best.

I have been put in touch with a gentleman named Derek Farrelly, who some of you may know. Derek has very kindly given me the reference numbers for the authentic green used by CIE on buses and road lorries 1945-62, on such steam locos as were green, and on coaching stock until 1955. The references are: Dark green (body colour) - BS 381C 226 Light green ("eau-de-nil" for lining) - BS 381C 216 My thanks to Jim Poots for the introduction. In an exchange of emails, I am investigating the possibility of a supply being made up in small tins for us model people - bus or rail. With growing popularity of the "grey & green" era, as well as "black'n'tan", I wonder what level of interest there may be. If nothing else, it will solve the question of what shade is right, for those not lucky enough to remember the real thing.

I'm about to put up a post under the heading "Availability of authentic 1945 CIE green", as I have got the codes now.

I got it. US$117 including shipping. We'll see what it looks like. Now I need to get realistic green paint! And CIE transfers which are eau de nil rather than white, yellow, gold, or turquoise!

Yes, it is indeed. I went to great pains some years ago to mix green for a Spanish railcar (G scale outdoor railway). It turned out like CIE green. It should have been way, way, way darker - like in the chassis of an ammonia wagon. The colour wasn't remotely like what it should have been.......

Addendum; the coach colour for GSWR was a very dark brownish maroon, rather than green. GSR continued it for a while, before toying with chocolate and cream before settling on a maroon the same as your model initially! It was CIE who brought in the green. The shade on your model, and surrounding John Wayne, and on the Bachmann thing, was what was used 1945-55. They retained this shade for the few green steam engines, and for buses and lorries, until the 1960s, but carriages and diesel locos started to be repainted a lighter green from 1955. I thought those "blue" yokes must be transfers.... they're so neat. If you hand painted those, well that's a credit to you - the accuracy of them! (If a transfer, might be an idea to tactfully tell the maker they're the wrong colour....!)

I would add, a lovely paint job nonetheless, and for a coach of this type, you can get away with no lining if it's based around Cork; in late fifties they turned out some old secondary stock in the older green (as above), two snails as in the older green livery - in other words, exactly as your model!

The green is pretty good. Coincidentally, I had an exchange of emails with a gentleman who says he can get me the proper code for it, which I will share once I get it. The "snails" and numerals, if you're asking, are not the right colour - they look quite "blue". The light green can be seen in the photo of John Wayne. However, and there's always a "however", a fair oul dose of weathering will calm it down to a reasonable level. The numbers are also slightly overscale. The Bachmann coach also had slightly overscale markings.

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