jhb171achill

That's a much improved track plan, too. Looking forward to seeing this.

Excellent. See ye in the Step Inn; a pint of Guinness awaits. (We'll have to do that some time now that I know you're local....)

There has been a long running discussion on what way things in preservation should be finished. As a teenage volunteer at Whitehead (over forty years ago) I worked on carriage restoration. The old wooden coaches were painted outdoors (no carriage shed, let alone scaffolding, safety harnesses, day-glo jackets, hard hats, or anything). Any paint that was donated, or could be got cheap, went on carriages. So, when those who might say "stop whinging about liveries and get your sleeves rolled up!" speak, I can absolutely sympathise. I am also, as those long-suffering here will know all too well, of the opinion that in this day and age, there is no reason NOT to paint things accurately, and for trying to pass on accurate information about the external appearance of things. So, truly, i do see both sides, and consider myself neutral, believe it or not. Both have a point; but neither are exclusively right. Opinion 1. The "livery doesn't matter" brigade. "It doesn't matter what colour it is, as long as it's preserved". (Maybe, but if it was blue, why not paint it blue instead of red?) "If it was broken up, there'd be no fuss, but paint it the wrong colour and there's war!" (very valid point!) "Sure they never painted them the same colour anyway. Inchicore / Dundalk / York Road* (*delete as applicable) just went to the local paint shop and bought what green / maroon / blue* (delete as applicable) they had in stock!" (Abject nonsense; all railways took a pride in their appearance and corporate images, and the GNR and GSR even appointed chemists in Inchicore and Dundalk, part of whose remit was to ensure consistency of paint mixes. Livery changes were deliberate, and the above urban myth appears to have originated in Whitehead in the early 1970s when it was pointed out by older people that the blue they initially painted 171 in was far, far too light!) "Well, I don't like grey locos. I like it black". (A pity, because while you're doing the work, and fair play to you; others aren't - perhaps the opinion of more than just the painter ought to be considered, especially if the thing was never black in real life?) Opinion 2. The committed non-nonsense volunteer. "You're standing on the platform there wittering on about the wrong gangway connection on this coach, and I've just spent three &*^# weekends in the freezing %$*^ cold, for no pay, painting it and varnishing it, and all you can come up with is that it's the WRONG *&^% livery!! I don't see YOU rolling up your sleeves doing anything useful!!" (Very, very valid point; though a little effort on paint choice might have made everyone happy for no extra effort?). "I haven't time to paint anything any colour. I have two broken toilets to fix before the train on Saturday, and I've no help. I'm supposed to be posting out newsletters this evening because they're two months overdue, but I don't think I'll be home on time, as i have to do overtime tonight in order to steam raise on Sunday morning - while you're in your bed!" (Completely valid!) Opinion 3. The historian. "This loco never had lining like that in traffic". (Yes, but it can be painted out of necessary?) "If a vehicle is worth preserving, it's worth doing it right and finishing it right". (If it hasn't been started already absolutely correct) "They should repaint this, and paint that one there the correct way." (And who, exactly, is "they"? Will you make a start this weekend, and buy the paint yourself?) Opinion 4. The armchair railway enthusiast. Well, they'll trot out the "should paint it this way" line too - but the answers from those at the front line are best not printed here! MY bottom line: It is clearly as easy to paint something one colour as another. Cravens were painted in a new livery - initially all over blue with yellow lining, later blue and cream, because of two reasons. First, IE were still using some stuff in orange and black, and wanted the Society to "distance" itself livery-wise from IE stock in case of public confusions over identity. Secondly, and this also applies to the Society's Whitehead set, those involved took the view that something entirely different was appropriate. Since Cravens were never in green (fine, though, they'd have looked in it), it's no more inaccurate to paint them blue as green. Some of the Whitehead Mk 2s never even ran here at all, and even the Irish ones never ran behind steam, so an approximation to a steam-era livery might do. Locos, heritage coaches and wagons: throughout the entire Irish heritage movement, those decorated incorrectly sometimes garishly so (like the zebra-striped "Ivan" at Whitehead), greatly outnumber those finished correctly. This even applies to every single goods vehicle in Cultra, the Castlederg and C & L coaches, and the incorrect tender markings on 800. I could go on, but reading my own comments above would appear not just churlish but hypocritical, given my opening comments. To preservationists I say - as a retired one, i unconditionally support everything you do. FULL stop. But surely, with the "exception of the exceptions"(!), like cravens, it's better to finish things accurately, The colour is the first thing you see of anything, and it's as easy to do it right as wrong, and nor more expensive....so.....! You are also providing value for historians, film-makers and modellers with no extra effort. What's arguable against that? To modellers I say - it's YOUR layout. You want a pink Fintona tram hauled by a tartan 201 class? Fine. Nobody can say you're "wrong". You want to buy a highly expensive kit and make it up wrongly? Sure. Your money, your time, your layout. BUT: if you want accuracy, as SOME do, its good for (a) the information to be out there, chapter and verse, and (b) it's a great pity if even a museum or operator of the genuine preserved article leads you unwittingly astray in terms of its appearance. Over'n'out. I'm sticking the kettle on, if anyone wants a refill.

Pre 1987, no orange stripe above window level either. White only above, orange only below.

Would it not be Central Service Depot (former Queen's Quay)? The brake van is an ex-NCC one, now at Downpatrick and available by appointment for anyone to go and measure up or photograph. The UTA painted it dark wagon grey, with white lettering. About 1970, NIR slopped little better than a watery light grey whitewash over it, and put their black markings on; both can be seen. For the modeller, if you do pay it a visit at Downpatrick, do be aware that livery wise, it is not right at all. If anyone wants chapter and verse on exact UTA / NIR livery details, PM me. It's probably too boring for here! Superb photos, by the way!

That'll depend on the volunteers with the paintbrushes in their hands, on the day!

It's a pity there are so few illustrations on their website. I was looking at some of their British coach kits, which by all appearances look very nice. But I'm no great expert on British rolling stock, so to describe something as a Great Central Type C, class Z2 open BSO, means no more to me than the man in the moon. There are some Midland (of England) kits which would be very close to some ex-WLWR 6-wheeled* stock still in use in the fifties. (* Six wheeled - naturally! Like the BCDR, the Waterford & Limerick only had about six bogie coaches!)

http://www.irishstamps.ie/shop/p-830-model-van.aspx Does anyone know what scale these are, and whether they're suitable for 00 scale? And, for that matter, suitable models anywhere of the sort of vans the post office used in this period?

I was asked why the thing was painted maroon by the RPSI - it clashes horribly with the blue and cream coaches, and for that matter, any "heritage" liveried diesel. The answer is that this was to match the wooden set gems like 351 and 1142, should they ever operate on the main line. I'm unaware, I have to say, of any likelihood of this happening, and if they truly wanted it to match those two very fine vehicles, a much darker "purple lake" might have been suitable. For modellers information, the OTHER BR van which the RPSI has will be finished either in blue and cream or plain blue when it's restored.

Yes, an accurate model of one would look as if it's been re-gauged on the County Donegal! (Now; would you prefer a run through the Barnesmore Gap behind a storming 2.6.4T in a wooden non-corridor coach, or a run in a De Dietrich, Mk4, or any other such modern tin can!??) :-)

That tatty, scruffy oul heap of a Model T is just perfect! it occurred to me too, that the cab part could be useful in making a model of one of the Blessington line's pair of 4-wheeled Ford Railcars....

Excellent work as usual, Nelson.

Tis an improvement, though the blue is way too light - should be almost navy. Easily rectified.

Not really, GNR! As you'll have seen from other posts, there's nothing at all, nothing, that looks even close to what the GNR operated on the Derry Road. If you do a "botch job" on this loco, you'd get something that would look vaguely OK - a new cab woulf be the first necessity. The good news is that apart from UGs, D class 0.6.0s, and S, P and PP class 4.4.0's, little else ran on the line until the advent of the railcars. You can get a IFM British Craven 2-car set which approximates to a GNR AEC set - by their own admission, it's a representation rather than a model. All you'd have to do is replace the blue on the lower panels - it is the shade of steam locos, or the RPSI Craven livery (which is NOT, nor ever was intended to be, GNR). I know, though, you're more into goods. Leslie's GNR goods vans look very well (Provinicial Wagons), and an occasional CIE "H" van would have appeared there. Omagh depot would have almost entirely covered vans, open wagons, and flats with bread containers. There's plenty available there. Loco hauled coaches - no, nothing at all right, except brass kits, e.g. SSM's K15, but you'd need a passenger brake to go with it. Back, then, to steam locos. Eventually, maybe someone will sell a U or UG here, or they'll do another batch. The one you have, plus another like it, provided the lack of exact accuracy doesn't bother you, would do in the meantime. Goods yards would have seen little else on the GNR!

Forgot about that! :-) Thanks - I've one on order, i think, anyway - must check!

Liked.

Unless I'm mistaken, your grey guard's van has tiimber planked ends rather than steel sheet. For the period you cover, that is of course prototypical; some wooden pannelled vans, some steel. My question - where did you get the wooden one? I have two SSM but they're steel-sided (and ended).

Of anything British, that's probably as close as you'd get to a suitable project for conversion to a generic GNR 0.6.0 lookalike. I believe they're good little runners too.

Lady Edith would be ideal. As an existing type of loco, certain "grandfather rights" would apply which would not be allowable on a new-build.

I will PM you now.

FOR SALE A wealth of information on rolling stock. Railcars and diesel locos of all types. Mint condition. Published by ITG 1997. The larger one €15 and smaller €5 including postage to anywhere in Ireland or the U.K. €20 both. The originals are the right way up.....!

The RPSI has looked at doing a new build Jeep, which in practical terms would be by FAR the most useful such project in Ireland. A new build loco might be nice for Waterford & Siur Valley; it's the only 3ft gauge line where it could get a decent run. They'd be far more likely to succeed by restoring the ex-C & L "Lady Edith", or one of the surviving Donegal tanks if they really want to do 3ft gauge.

What scale are the cars?

I'm looking for an original-state 141, if anyone's selling; not a 181, by the way.

The top two are more accurate; the bottom one is too deep a shade, by the look of it. The same tanny orange was used right through from 1962 until about 1990, when painting techniques changed, leading the slightly brighter shade seen latterly. Paint fades depending on the ingredients. If a mix had, say, brown and orange pigments in it, and the orange faded quicker, it was fade to having a more browny tint. CIE's tan paint tended to show a slightly more flat tan colour when badly worn - however - in traffic locos and coaching stock were generally looked after well, so you never got that variation on vehicles in traffic; they'd be repainted long before. Variations in new batches of paint were rare and so infitesimally small that you couldn't really discern them. In contrast, in the 1950s, many green carriages ended up extremely worn looking, and quite faded in some cases - but the greens were absolutely standard when new. Look at yer man in the photo above. He's waving Bachmann Mk 3s at the pilot in order to spoil his day, as he knows he's a steam man.