jhb171achill

Aaarrrrgggh I was in it many a time and never took one pic inside! In my time anyway, it was very run down indeed internally - from the mid 1960s they never looked after it properly. Being the subject of a bomb didn't help either. I may know of a source - will make enquiries and if anything comes from it I'll advise.

Looks too thin for a sleeper...... could they be C & L fence posts or sections of a signal post? jhb171 senior had perimeter fencing made of 5' 3" gauge sleepers cut in half longitudinally - could be that too....?

Nice loco, and certainly with conversion possibilities.

Hi Noel The stripes are all much too yellow. Check my avatar thingy on the left, as that's an actual CIE transfer. In terms of post-1955 loco / coach green, the right hand colour above is closest but not exact.

Does anyone know why they need two? And - what is it about NIR that they consistently can't seem to keep just three of a class in reliable use, when IE have for forty years kept 18 of the same class with well above average levels of reliability? It was the same with the few C class that NIR had in the 1980s, some of which rarely turned a wheel at all; and the trio of Hunslets, though these were nowhere as good a locomotive as anything GM. For NIR to have double headed superpower on a ballast train of three or four trucks, is like IE putting an 071 or two 141s on the two-coach Ballina branch train. For both out of just a trio to fail, is like Mayo putting in two own goals in the All-Ireland final.... Oh, wait......

There would be some fun trying that on an outdoor garden railway!

And the winner of the prize for the most hideous locomotive livery of all time, in all world history goes to...........

I like the idea of different liveries on different sides - was considering myself. The GNR out a small "c" in front of numbers of coaches, with a small "n" afterwards. Therefore, a GNR coach numbered 145 would be c145N. I suspect it was meant to be a "G" but due to the design of the font they ended up like a "c". Ex GNR wagons had an N added only, thus wagon 94 became 94N. Locos weren't renumbered at all - most would shortly be scrapped. While ex GNR coaches were repainted in the post-1955 lighter CIE green (none were ever the darker shade, as that went out in the mid 50s before the GNR wound up), and ex GNR wagons got CIE "snails" on them (GNR and CIE grey were about the same), no ex GNR steam loco was ever given the grey paint treatment. The very very few repainted at all were outshopped in whatever GNR livery they had already had, either plain or lined black or lined blue - but without "G N" markings or GNR crest. Numbers were applied using standard GNR types of shaded letter transfers, not CIE style lettering. We know that the UTA lined black actually suited GNR locos well; how would unlined battleship grey and a flying snail have looked on 85? .....oh and yes.... straw, edged in red, for UTA lining as you say. Any photo apparently showing otherwise hasn't got accurate colour rendition. Numerals straw too. I think the RPSI Whitehead livery may have confused the issue for some modellers. It was intended to look similar to, but not Ben exactly, UTA livery. The RPSI uses a single red and a single yellow waist line, with yellow numerals shaded red, but it's a different livery, the Society's own. Yours truly had a hand in designing it, so blame me if it has led anyone to think the UTA used yellow!

On the maroon coach, the fourth one is closest to actual; I'm comparing with my avatar which is a good quality photo of actual CIE paint. The second one along, while a bit dark, has the right blue / yellow colour balance. The very first one is similar to the later post-1955 CIE green. The second from left tissue sample I see closest out of that lot - the others are too "blue".

I'll look it up, John. I think it might have been a frame in a video! Yes, off white is much more realistic, and I raised the issue myself. But the prevailing view of many experienced modellers here is that weathering of a "pristine" whiteoght do a better job.....

Hi John Youre safe enough with white. No certain data exists to my knowledge, but I have seen but two colour pics only showing light green snail and / or numeral on C & L stock, and several more showing BG wagons like that - and, yes, the darker grey. Once the stencilled snails started appearing, which seems to be mid 1950s, it was all white.

Ah! Those 1980s colours are totally unsuitable for either version of 1950s. The 1980 ones are olive-type and a sort of dark lime green. The Quiet Man pics are the ones to copy. Maybe nos. 2 & 3 mixed? I would suggest trying 2 parts no. 2 with 1 part of the darker one. As can be seen, the bus ones are no more suitable than pink and yellow tartan!

Without illustrations, be careful that the "Dublin bus light and dark green" doesn't refer to the 1984 Dart colours, which are shades of green totally unlike the ones you're looking for. Haven't seen these paints myself, but white and yellow "snails" and lining are available as transfers, but not accurate for any coaches. Light green only for coaches or steam loco tenders. Ah! Those 1980s colours are totally unsuitable for either version of 1950s. The 1980 ones are olive-type and a sort of dark lime green. The Quiet Man pics are the ones to copy.

Brilliant! I always thought that was a very attractive colour scheme, even on buses. You can get the correct light green transfers now too. Prob best to paint the lining. As you'll see from the Quiet Man clips, the light green lining on the Bachmann coach is way too thick below window level.

That'll look good, popeye. The green in the Quiet Man and on the Bachmann model is the same - or supposed to be. The coaches you are painting could be taken as Bredins as well as being laminate-ish. A Bredin would have worn both green liveries, whereas a laminate would only have had the lighter shade, not hugely unlike the heading on this website. If you assume it's a Bredin, you've the choice of the Bachmann / Quiet Man darker green with lining above and below windows, or - if you're modelling the late 50s / ear;y 60s, the shade seen on the RPSI's Dublin heritage set, or as applied (incorrectly!) to G611 at Downpatrick, or their TPO. Good luck!

That's the one, Joe. Unfortunately, I won't be in Glasgow. I'll order it online, I think. Possibly - is there anyone going to the Bray show this Sunday who might have one?

Yes, it is a British publication, usually specialising in off the beaten track locations, high quality photographs and very high quality and historically well researched articles. I'm after the Feb edition, as there is an interesting article in it about the legal and political background to the joint ownership of the CDRJC. I might get it online.

Question as above! ........or indeed, anyone in the North?

The above is the standard CIE green used to replace the (LMS shade) maroon used by the GSR immediately prior to that. All the photos except the last show it up accurately; the last has too bluish a tint, probably as a result of deterioration of an old colour slide. The actual green is as in my avatar, which is photo of a mounted "snail" with paint straight out of Inchicore. As can be seen in the first few photos above, like any newly applied gloss paint it dulled down a bit when in day to day use. Summary of GSWR / GSR / CIE liveries: Locos: 1870s - 1895 or so: olive green, lined at various times in light green, red and black (the exact livery may be seen on preserved 90 at Dowpatrick; later cream and black lining and also at another time red and black lining. Numberplate black background. No crests or lettering. By 1905 - black with red lining, red-backed numberplates, no crests or lettering. 1915 onwards - apart from buffer beam, unlined grey all over, numberplates, wheels, smokebox, chimney and motion included. Apart from buffer beam shaded number, no markings at all. In the late 1940s, CIE started removing the numberplates and replacing them with light yellow painted numbers, and putting lined light green "flying snails" on most but not all tenders. No tank engines ever got snails. Suburban and main line passenger locos mostly got the lined green now seen on 800 in Cultra, though others remained grey. From about 1955, a few engines becoame unlined black with light yellow numerals. I don't recall any black tenders having snails - if they did, they were light green as usual. There were a small handful,of exceptions, e.g. small non-standard numberplates on the ex-CBPR locos on the C & L - two, anyway, had red backgrounds, which was unique. Carriages From early times, a deep chocolatey maroon shade known as "crimson lake", as daft a name for a colour as the faintly ridiculous name for light green as "eau de nil" ("water of nothing")?!! This was elaborately lined in red, black, gold and yellow. Around 1905-10, most main line stock had off-white upper panels, as seen on Downpatrick's No. 836. After the GSR amalgamation in 1925, this continued simple with the change of coat-of-arms to the GSR one. Carriages from other companies were gradually repainted this way too, effectively into GSWR livery. After a few years, the GSR introduced a chocolate brown and cream livery with black lining, similar to the English Great Western Railway, for main line stock; other stock remaining in the plain crimson lake throughout. In 1933, a much lighter shade of maroon, same as the NCC and English LMS, was introduced and all stock of all grades gradually painted this way. Even the lining was the same as the LMS. I know from jhb171senior(departed) that there was much to-ing and fro-ing between Inchicore and Derby in those days; doubtless someone saw a newly turned out coach over there in Blighty and thought it would do well here. Some narrow gauge and secondary stock weren't lined. CIE introduced the alive green in 1945 and by degrees everything was thus painted. The lighter green with simplified lining was applied to coaches first in 1955, by all accounts, but with the short-lived unpainted stock ending traffic at the same time. This lighter shade was ONLY applied to diesel locos and carriages, never to steam engines or buses, which retained the above green until the "black'n'tan" began to be used from 1962. The C class would need to be the lighter green - see above. The Hornby Staniers would sort of approximate to laminates, so again the lighter green rather than the above would be correct. It would make the job of lining a lot easier too!

Pity...... at one time I was thinking of a large (attic space was then plentiful) CDR layout.....

Do Backwoods have a website? I can't seem to find one.

The GSWR painted coaches a very dakf browny /maroon with elaborate lining (details on request!). GSR started similar, lighter after1933 , thereafter post-1933 maroon.... ....

Ah sure a day's volunteering at Downpatrick will sort 'em all out.

There's a siding for them.

An NCC "Jeep", and a decent AEC / GNR / CIE / UTA / NIR railcar are musts for a future time. Fert bogie - a perfect companion for bubbles and Guinness wagons! Midland six wheeler Cattle trucK I'll be there, see you then. I can travel into town on the Harcourt St line; most appropriate.