jhb171achill

Ken That’s absolutely correct. The thing never had a repaint in its entire life! Along with the 800 class trio, it’s the solitary engine that the GSR didn’t paint grey! The exact shade of green is unknown, but if it were possible to research in England what the makers generally used, you’d be ok with that. The only thing the GSR did was to add a number plate, and since the engine was never repainted, it’s probable that the number plate was just unpainted metal too.

Station buildings and loco sheds could often be found on curves, e.g. Enniskillen, Drogheda and Cork. I have to say that I'm unaware of any goods sheds built curved - probably because by their very nature, a good bit of area round them was required for loading and unloading goods, and perhaps manoeuvring odd shaped large loads.

That's the little loco that shunted Allmans Distillery in West Cork, and was bought by the GSR, yes?

I’ll ping you, Dave. I can fill you in on quite a lot of stuff. Gimme a couple of days.

Looking VERY good!

RIP

Where were those types of tankers used mostly, and within which exact period?

You'd like to think they'd put ICRs on it nowadays, at least on the main line; but I suspect it might end up with 26s or 28s (or 27s, right enough!)

Only seeing this now. I have no information on woodwork colours of the WLWR. being a very short lived concern, it's possible that it was a continuation of that of the W & L; I am unsure, however, of what way they painted stations. The MGWR painted buildings, station furniture etc., with cherry red and cream or a stone colour. Station signs were either white letters on black, or navy blue enamel signs with white lettering; this, however, would fade to a creamy colour after a while. The GSR painted stations a darkish leaf green colour, not unlike earlier CIE green; and cream. The green and cream tended to be separated on upright poles, for example, by a half-inch black line. This was continued well into CIE days, right up to the early 1960s. In 1900, carriage liveries were as follows: WLWR: Same as their locos, lined maroon. Carriage lining was, i believe, gold; possibly gold and black. The maroon was quite a dark shade. MGWR: In 1900, plain mid-brown with gold lining. The blue / white livery, and the brown lined in yellow, and their variety of deep maroon, would come later. GSR: If we're in the 1930s, a few carriages are still rattling about in CBSCR, GSWR, MGWR and DSER liveries; most within their own territories. Actual GSR livery can be summed up (and I'm focussing on, say, 1935) as follows: 1. Standard carriage livery: Deep maroon / brown, known as "crimson lake", despite being no more crimson than yellow tartan! This is now accurately shown on the ex-State saloon, No. 351, now in the care of the RPSI, and the GSWR third, No. 836, at Downpatrick (though it should be noted that the white upper panels there are not accurate for that particular type of vehicle). This would be lined in gold, with full crest, initials and carriage numbers as shown in numerous photos. This was applied to all stock except for the following. This gloomy shade was in fact the same that the GSWR had used, and probably not much darker than the maroon livery which the MGWR had had from 1918-25. 2. "Main Line" livery. This was brown and cream, both shades the same (or close enough) to the livery of the Great Western Railway in Britain. The colours were separated by a thin black line, I'd say half an inch thick. The brown came to waist height, and cream from there to the (dark grey or black) roof. Above window level were two more thin black lines - one directly above the window line, and the other just below roof level. This livery was said to be intended initially for main line corridor stock only, but I have seen a single photo (and a poor one at that) which appears to show a six-wheeled passenger brake van clad thus. It's safe to assume this was an exception of some sort, as forty years of my perusal of old photos, particularly in the collections within the IRRS when they were available to members, failed to produce a single example of anything but main line stock in brown and cream. Narrow gauge, branch line stock, all 6-wheeled passenger stock, and older bogies were all concurrently in the "crimson lake". This brown and cream livery seems to have lasted from about 1929 to 1934 or so, but with infrequent repaints of some stock, carriages in that livery were probably still to be occasionally seen at the outset of the CIE era. 3. "Steels" livery. When Edgar Bredin planned the first steel-panelled stock, which though now known as "Bredins" (despite jhb171's grandfather's scrawl being on the drawings!), were then known as "the steels", they would enter traffic in a new livery. Perhaps they were tired of copying the GWR of England, so now they produced a livery virtually identical to that of the English LMS! A lighter maroon - LMS "red" (actually a light maroon) was chosen, lined in an identical manner to the NCC, and the LMS. This had a yellow / black / yellow line below window level, with twin yellow lines above windows - again, like the brown and cream, there was one line above the windows, and another below the gutter line. All stock of all types and both gauges would gradually be repainted this way. Thus, in 1935, it depends on what type of carriage you have. If it is older coaches, the deep purply brown. This would include non-corridor stock and all 6-wheelers. More modern wooden coaches (usually the high-roofed 1915-1925 designs) will be perhaps two thirds brown and cream, one third older purple lake. So, six models - 4 in brown and cream, 2 in lake, perhaps. Any newer Bredin type, whether suburban or main line, LMS style lined maroon. In terms of being lost in the mists of time, eye witnesses may be, but accurate information survives. Livery accuracy is almost entorely ignored by preservationists, artists, even some modellers, maybe it's just not our thing in Ireland. But in Britain, they go to extraordinary lengths to get it right. Thus, and properly restored LMS coach over there - and I'm sure Precision Paints have proper LMS maroon. Equally, they'll have GWR brown and cream. The accurate GSWR colour may be seen onthe two vehicles mentioned above, but also on the large scale model dining car made by GSWR apprentices, and now on display in Cultra (surrounded by full size things inaccurately decorated!). I hope that this is of assistance.

Absolutely. Taking the 1970s or 80s would probably see the whole thing operated by 141s, with goods still in evidence, oil probably being the main thing, but busy beet traffic too. H van heaven on day to day stuff. That period would also see the lines using a motley collection of older laminates and Park Royals - the odd Craven might get a look in, while the occasional old Bredin would still be about into the mid seventies. Had it survived, it might well have been the last stamping ground of the four wheel tin vans too.

It would take just three 3-car ICRs to run the whole service - twice a day Drimoleague - Baltimore and return, and twice, or possibly three times, Cork - Bantry and back. Doubtless there would by now be no goods, so Albert Quay goods yard would be a bus station and car park. An extra 2600-class could do a commuter service Cork - Bandon.... Layout idea?

Future project - a 3-car 80 class?

There is an expression of interest in the van for possible preservation.

Let's hope the new CTC building is to the right scale, and painted in the right livery....

Well, for some reason my first attempts didn’t get through - but - once my order WAS received, the stuff was dispatched to me very efficiently and timely.

I managed, finally, to place an order with them for some wagons and bits and pieces. One wagon, however, is not quite what i thought it was - I can find a home for it, but I'd rather send it back. Do they refund things like that? It's probably hardly worth it, so if anyone wants an original Hornby Dublo goods van in original box for €10, it's yours.

Having delved into the Catacombs, and perused 1950s working timetables for clues about signalling, I found out a little more. Westport Quay and Cahirciveen - Valentia were operated then (and for many, many years earlier) as "one engine in steam", thus allowing little in the way of catch points, no ground signals and just one home starter, and home approach signal. This will make life MUCH simpler! Valentia had had a signal cabing, but ended up with a ground frame; so did Westport Quay. The lever frame at Valentia both in signal cabin and GF days, had but five levers; three for points and two for signals. This would have meant one signal each for home approach and home departure. This, therefore is what i'll have, as my plan is to recreate the sort of small terminus which would have one mixed and one goods a day, coming to life big time whenever it was beet season, GAA All-Ireland day, or Knock specials. This type of system was probably reproduced in other places in latter days; I know that Ardee cabin (which i was in one time) wasn't exactly packed with levers, and Castleisland could possibly have been similar.

A fantastic layout, really captures the atmosphere of the 1950s on the narrow gauge. Any more photos?

That's probably more like it. I want to have a good look at what Valentia Harbour had in its latter days. Anyone familiar with the diagram? I haven't had a chance to look at photos yet but will do.

They say "north east" of the existing one. What will become the down main would be east or south east of it, I would have thought. Will this new one have a "corner" where it faces the W & L behind the loco shed too?

You're quite right, bsgsv. I intend it to be as accurate as possible, so traps would need to be included indeed. Snapper's analysis looks correct, and had such a layout existed, it would almost certainly have been signalled like that originally. Both Westport Quay and Valentia, and many another place, were simplified over the years, and I'm looking at a likely accurate alternative. You'd be surprised where three-way turnouts would be found - while pricier to install, land was pricier still. Polloxfen's grain sidings in Co Sligo had a couple. I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of them somewhere on the narrow gauge (now THERE'S a quiz question!). In my scenario, space dictates, especially as I want the more realistic looking long-radius points on the rest of the layout.

Interesting..... a platform on the "main line" of the W & L (after 160-odd years!)..... So, the main (only) platform will become one face only, presumably, and there will also be a new down platform?

The first one is holding a rabbit in the air. The second is playing with his super-soaker. The third and fourth are playing the famous old shovel pointing game.

Wow! A thing of great beauty indeed!

It's soooo tempting to say that they're the "wrong livery", as their overalls should be filthy!!!!