jhb171achill

Yes, the first lot of "E"'s.... correct, Jawfin...

Looks fantastic! I had a soft spot for those railcars.... though I could never work out where the coal was meant to be fed in, or where the boiler was.....

Phil The narrow gauge engines were always grey, all through GSR and CIE times. Several, especially on the C & L, didn't receive a new coat of paint from pre 1925 days until well into the thirties, but that's not the same as GSR or CIE painting them differently. While on the T & D, every locomotive was plain grey, without exception. T & D Nos. 3, 4 & 6 were on the C & L (can't recall if other T & D locos went there too), and all were grey on arrival. No. 6, at least, appears blackish in one good colour photo I've seen, but on closer inspection - on the very few clean bits there are - grey is evident. On coal trains, with coal dust flying about at Arigna, and smoke drifting about Ballinamore shed, aided and abetted by an almost total lack of any sort of cleaning, grey could look almost like a dirty black pretty quickly. The shade is like a dark wagon grey; if you look at recent colour pictures of the RPSI's 186, that's very accurate. Watch, however, the smokebox - apparently, many at Whitehead thought that a grey smokebox and chimney looked odd, so they tended not to clean it like they did the rest of the loco, giving an impression in some photos that the smokebox is black! But it isn't, and wouldn't have been; the GSR / CIE grey encompassed absolutely everything, motion and all, except solely for the red buffer beams. Numerals on the T & D locos were cast plates while on the T & D, pale yellow painted numerals while on the C & L.

True, Old Blarney; forgot about those.

Gents, including those who PM's me, my two are in 1960s black and tan, and are B141 and B162. I've decided to retain them for the moment but now that I know that several people are interested I may advertise them in the future. Thanks for your interest.

When 461 was first restored about 1990, she appeared out of Whitehead with a cream / yellow unlined "snail". This seems to have been the start of assumptions that such livery details - as applied to something preserved - may be relied on to be accurate. in fact, not only was it not, but the engine was never black in CIE ownership. This is, as a separate issue, why it's incumbent on preservationists to make it clear whether a livery they turn something out in is accurate or not. The incorrect black ironwork on the brake van "Ivan" is another unfortunate case in point. Snails were always "eau-de-nil", rather than cream. if the colour is reproduced accurately, it should look like light green, and should be lined in gold, unlike the cabside numbers which were unlined light yellow! I suspect, but of course could be entirely wrong, that various manufacturers looked at a restored 461 twenty years ago and assumed that a pale yellow logo was correct, especially as the cabside number was that colour.

It would be interesting to see a photo of it in BR red and cream, as it apparently was with British Rail....

Haven't decided whether to sell yet, but would there be interest in a couple of black'n'tan ones?

Mayner & Minister; correct on all counts. I have a picture somewhere of the stainless steel "demonstrator", including interior; must try to find it (now there's a challenge). Before discovering this picture on, actually, a CIE publicity leaflet, I'd never even heard of it. It can't have been in Ireland long. The tin vans and SOME (by no news all) laminates were indeed the only stuff to into traffic unpainted, unless you count the bodies, and done chassis, of the corrugated Bullied open wagons. Plus, of course, the A, C and G601 class locomotives. Park Royals were all introduced in green, with silver bogies. Without checking, I can't remember if the roofs were originally silver, but the silver bogies soon were repainted black. On account of the ribs on the sides, Park Royals never carried the "flying snail".

And Buckfast is (in Belfast) Shankill Shampagne..... (Or Falls Road!)

Someone mention Arthur? Stick one on for me too.

Yes. No snails, lining, or any other markings whatsoever. Chassis, ends, drawgear, roof, the lot.... all unpainted.

Wow! A very unusual and welcome addition to the general world of modelling!

Imagine...... "Black and Tan" "Puke" Two names with one thing in common; best avoided in their day, and best forgotten subsequently!

The silver "livery" (ie actually not a livery at all - no paint anywhere!) was a fascinating but totally impractical way to turn things out. Ends and chassis, drawgear and brake gear, all got so filthy it was impossible to tell they weren't painted a muddy brown. As for roofs - bad enough on tin vans or carriages, but worse again on diesel locomotives - they were covered in smoky deposits, thus largely obscuring the "silver" on the roofs! Incidentally, as a point of historical accuracy, it's important to remember that "silver livery" doesn't mean they were painted silver. They were just left in bare metal, unpainted entirely! So nobody need worry about lining styles, paint shades, parts picked out in other colours and so on.... A strange one, all right!

CIE green would indeed look good!

Absolutely outstanding! Very atmospheric, very realistic.

Ah! That explains it.....

It would be indeed, Broithe.

It's not a million miles off the early 1960's experimental UTA "Catherwood" livery for railcars!

Regulations in the WTT, Minister...... Yes - the model is THAT realistic......!

True, minister..... and it was the "Pale"......

Since when has a "ZO" (i.e. Dublin) number plate been Northern Ireland?

Yes, but unfortunately not likely to translate into railway traffic.....

There's certainly no political will here at all, not has there been for decades, and that's not going to change. However, international carbon-emission agreements and resultant EU rules may well overtake things at some stage; let's hope they do. What Ireland has against it, of course, is small distances. However, properly thought out, you would imagine that basic system of goods trains from Dublin to Waterford, Cork, Tralee, Limerick, Galway, Athlone, Ballina, and Belfast or Derry should be feasible.