jhb171achill

I've bought bargains on eBay myself, but some of the garbage offered by others for sake makes you think they are either seriously deluded or they've got a cheek!

I'll ring Brian tonight, David. Being a voluntary group, reliable phone answering has always been a problem!

I always thought an "08" made a very good representation. I take it you'd also be painting the connecting rod and adding white flashes on ends? Even the orange paint on the roundel disappearing looks like weathering! Looks well indeed. Shows what can be done quite readily with proprietary models.

Minister, that type too is unlike anything which ever ran here. By the time that the type of body design shown in both the pictures posted was the norm, six wheeled chassis were universal here. British lines kept on building four wheelers a great deal longer, leading to some of the beautifully restored examples on the Isle of Wight, for example. On these boards a while back, someone showed how he had made a quite superb GSWR-like six wheeler by amalgamating a couple of those "Thomas" coaches to make one that was one and half times the length, and using a six wheel chassis. That's more like it for Ireland. The initialing wheelbase four wheel shown in this post would do fine for many Irish lines if it was fitted with a six wheel chassis. It would look like many first class coaches (4 compartment) off the GSWR, or at a pinch West Cork or the DSER. It's not, however, convincing for NCC, BCDR, GNR or MGWR scenarios.

That's correct, Jawfin. The two I mentioned were normal passenger carrying ones. The two you refer to are of an even earlier era. The one shown at the start of this post is completely unlike anything that ever ran here.

That type of long wheelbase four wheeler would be reasonably common on British lines at one time, but Irish four wheelers were way shorter and of a more primitive body design. A body like that, if in Ireland, would inevitably be six wheeled. Some Irish 6-wheelers were only 24ft long. Four wheelers here followed much older body designs, because they stopped building them here decades before they stopped building them in England. By the mid 1880s, the standard in Ireland was six wheeled, but vehicles of the body design of that model would have been built in England possibly as late as the 1910s.

The MGWR had a handful of four wheelers into the 1920s. Well into GSR days, there were at least two or three old relics usually kept kicking about in Inchicore. These were only used in emergencies; they had as you might expect no heat, light or corridors. Rather than being painted in normal GSR lined maroon, they were just plain maroon with no crest or lining, but just "G. S" on their dudes. I think they lasted until about 1930. I can't remember - off the top of my head - what company they originated from.

No probs, aclass, it's a public operating day, so anyone may travel. However, I am arranging behind-the-scenes visits to areas normally off-limits on an operating day, in order that modellers may take photos and examine anything they might want to model. You are very welcome to join us there, on the day, but I would ask that if you plan to do so, PM me nearer the time and I'll advise you where to meet the rest of the group. In the referendum, vote DCDR! ;-)

Hello David Email me, and I will forward to the appropriate folks, or contact the railway and mark for the attention of Brian Goodfellow (Chairman) and Patricia McGrath. I'm presuming 20th June doesn't suit you? If you were there that day, I could show you round with the other folks. On normal operational days, access to the running shed would be awkward.

New one to me too! Any follow-up?

Glenderg, you could charge admission for that!

Great stuff, MikeO - I'll be interested to see the result!

You have my vote too. I've just spent quite a while watching this layout on YouTube - it is absolutely mesmerising to watch! Must have taken years to put together? Excellent stuff - a work of art.

I may have a few old rule books somewhere which I may be able to sell - if anyone's interested PM me and I'll have a delve.

Dunluce, you're a dab hand at converting things.... maybe worth starting a thread on what contemporary stuff out there is suitable gift conversion to Irish models..... there must be loads of British 0.6.0s which could be adapted to GNR, BCDR, NCC or GSR / CIE locos. Sometimes bargains can be had on ebay - I recently saw an old 0.4.0 of some sort which would have been an ideal donor for an inside cylinder CIE 4.4.0 - wheels were about right for several GSR prototypes. It was about £15 sterling.

The tramcars had conventional railway wheels but the goods vehicles had a unique type which could run on rail or road. There was a third line for electricity.

Certainly do-able, Minister.....

If only there was somewhere, anywhere, in Ireland with even a tenth of the interest of Tara Junction!

The "desert sand" colour was like CIE buses were in the 80s. It was basically a light buff / brown - exactly a sandy colour. Beige, you might call it. Unusually or Irish freight stock, vehicles painted in this livery had a black, rather than body-colour chassis. Roofs were light grey or possibly white, but darkened with steam loco coal smoke to a dirty colour very quickly in traffic. The orangey colour on the others was in all probability the passenger livery, which when newly painted in later days tended to look a bit orangey when in sunlight. In fact, it was more brown than that picture implies. Look at colour photos of any GNR coach in the fifties and you'll see - GNR livery tended, like most brown or blue paints, to fade and deaden down quite significantly when in traffic. If you visit Whitehead you can see former Directors Saloon No. 50 in authentic GNR livery.

I have photos somewhere which I will post, which were taken by jhb171senior in the 30s.

010 ("A" class) was involved in the Lisburn accident in 1978 when the Enterprise walloped an 80 class set, sadly resulting in the drivers death. Several other A and C class locos were blown up between Newry and Dundalk during the "Troubles".

Indeed, josefstadt: quite a mixture, and including the RPSI's unique 1508!

It's for catching leprechauns. ;-)

Yes, the vans were another issue indeed - even a few old GSWR six wheeled full brakes survived in traffic until the late 60s. I see your point about livery descriptions. The "golden brown" as CIE rather curiously described it officially, was of a more "tan" shade than later orangey shades, especially post-1990; these themselves having been the subject of considerable debate on these boards with relation to Mk 3 coaches. The earlier livery was indeed mostly black, and on many locos in the sixties it was literally all black bar white flashes on the ends - in other words, no tan at all. Equally, a few A's and C's had this with yellow ends. If "Black'n'tan" is taken as the 1960s livery, this distinguishes it from the "Supertrain" livery of post 1972. From 1987, apart from the addition of the white lines, we have "tippex" or "IR" livery - this is generally taken to mean the 1987- early 90s period, during which the "tippex" white lines were added - the nickname coming from Inchicore painters, and the IR "Set of Points" logo as now applied to 146 at Downpatrick. By the 90s, the "three pin plug" logo appears and we have "IE" livery! So - 1962-72 "Black'n'tan" 1972-87 "Supertrain" 1987-90s "IR / Tippex"

I misread the title "early Cravens".... but a thought occurred to me. If we run Cravens with black'n'tan locos, remember they can only be in the original livery - ie no orange above window level or white below, as the first instances of the newer version were over ten years after the very last loco was repainted in supertrain, let alone IE livery. Also, a sleek uniform rake of Cravens was almost never seen - if at all. Pre supertrain era, whether main line or branch, all trains were composed if a multiplicity of different types of carriages; a random glance at a photo of one six-coach set shows just one Craven. Its companions are a Park Royal, 32xx series brake genny, and three laminates of two different types.... That was absolutely typical.