jhb171achill

Already, the RPSI is technically entitled, as a fully fledged railway operator, to run public services within the south....

This being the case, airport railway is certainly a necessity. It also begs the question as to whether there is truly any future in Waterford to Limerick Junction, and the Nenagh branch!

I wouldn't mean it as a blanket statement as such, junctionmad. BR (or whatever it may BR collectively be referred to now) is a sum of many very diverse parts. Many of these parts simply don't exist in Ireland, didn't, can't and won't, for example very long distances, heavy freight traffic out of mines like bulk coal, and so on. Thus, of necessity Ireland's railways have a smaller area, smaller market and smaller number of potential niche markets to follow. Of those that do exist, and in the circumstances likely to prevail, actual subsidy-free commercial viability is unlikely to be possible in any sense. Again, if we subsidise a private operator, we're subsidising the operation of the railway plus fat cats and shareholders. One thing is very true though - your comment about incentivisation. Remedies for this type of thing come very slow in Ireland, especially in nationalised entities (the ESB and HSE are WAY worse than the railway) - but can be found without actual privatisation.

Sounds reasonable, josefstadt; just an off-the-cuff thought of mine...!

That link won't open.....

You've reminded me, Mayner, yes, I remember that too. I'm nearly certain - but stand to be corrected - that it was industrial relations. The fact that the UTA had abolished all internal goods traffic within the north in 1965, and thus never had its own liner trains, could possibly have resulted in there being no provision in the UTA / NIR rule book for guard-less trains.

Galway traffic congestion is indeed chaotic. A Moycullen - city centre - Mervue area Luas-style thing was considered at one stage in the past. This would certainly be a good thing, with a branch out to Salthill a good addition.

Again, who knows.... Highly unlikely... But when we operate our own layouts, everything's possible!

Which is precisely why privatisation in any shape or form is absolute inane madness; no matter what way it's configured, you're adding a senior management wage bill and shareholder dividends to the overall railway bill for cost of operating. Blinkered stupidity; while political thoughts are not appropriate here, politics will play a role in whatever thinking forms the future of our railways. As junctionmad says, railways are simply not commercially viable in this country, certainly outside Luas-land.

Too big a loco by far for Ireland, but when we go into "what-ifs", I suppose anything's possible!

I think Deltics, or other British loco stock would have been unlikely, as re-gauging would have been too expensive, but re-gauged rolling stock a la NIR Enterprise would be a probability.

That's very true. Given that today, an all Ireland state would have about 7% of what would be the total "UK" population, living in an area some 28-30% of its total, two-island size, it's fair to surmise that nothing much would have been left. Certainly not the SLNCR, which would make "Arigna Road" all the more fascinating, with "Lissadell" carrying a BR lion-and-wheel crest! Incidentally, to remain on thread, am I right in thinking I saw a 7mm scale model of some 3ft narrow gauge stuff (possibly C & L?) at an exhibition many moons ago? I'm not talking about Fry, incidentally; anyone have any idea?

For quite a few years, goods guards travelled in the cabs of (van-less) fitted trains due to union rules rather than any practical necessity.

Yes,all of those vehicles had ended their days in departmental service. The grey livery was evidence of this. Prior to that they were coach green.

Politics apart, I used to wonder what way Ireland's railways would have developed if no border had been created in 1921, and (like the GSR) all the railways came under one ownership of an all-Ireland independent Republic. Alternatively, if all of Ireland had remained as a part of the UK under British rule, would Ireland's railways have been included in the 1948 nationalised creation of British Rail?

Had the SLNCR survived, given the track and traffic considerations, it's safe to say that it would have become the preserve of "C"'s and lat 141s.... A "G" might shunt in Manorhamilton or Enniskillen if it had fallen into CIE ownership....

I knew I'd never seen "JL" on anything!!! The low numbers (just two-digit) were another giveaway.

I'd love to see the underground - it's already necessary, never mind when the economy grows (and population with it). 1.25 million people, or about a fifth of the entire island population, already live in greater Dublin. In other words, Dublin now has as many people as almost three-quarters of Northern Ireland. So it arguably needs an internal rail network bigger than NIR!!

And then there were "S" and "SA" on 141 class locos...

Wasn't so sure about the "JL" - departmental stock was always numbered with an "A" suffix. The vehicles quoted by that photographer who Glenderg quoted were vehicles i saw myself, and they didn't have "JL" an two-digit numbers when I saw them - maybe the original photographer had it wrong? Incidentally, those carriages shown are an exceptionally interesting quarter and it's a real shame they didn't survive. The grey one pictured at North Wall was the very last surviving MGWR bogie coach - originally Dining Car No. 1 (later 1M), and which was converted to an ordinary coach some years later. It had consequently been in the famous MGWR "Tourist Train". It was built in 1901 or 1902, and survived until the 80s at N Wall, where it was broken up. The three pictured at Mullingar are from left to right, WLWR No. 935 (the last surviving W LWR bogie; the exceptionally interesting Director's Saloon of theirs, of 1897). Then 1110, a 1915 GSWR bogie corridor third, and in the distance, 13M, a late 1880s MGWR six wheeler, the chassis of which is now at Downpatrick underneath their GNR six wheel body.

Absolutely top class!

Prior to the seventies, much if not most of this work was done by gangs of men with shovels. Also, the technology of yellow machines has moved forward in leaps and bounds in only the last 10-15 years. Another point worth noting is that yellow, as an all-encompassing and seemingly universal colour for anything maintenance related is a comparatively new phenomenon. Actual tamping machines were yellow from the 1960s on, but related wagons, locomotives, crew carriages and road-based machinery wasn't; and staff wore dungarees and overalls, not day-glo pantomime costumes.

In reality, private enterprise does a better job at some things, while the state is better at others. Disciples of Marx and of Thatcher both fail to see this reality.

Meddling, as such, is OK in theory when the indigenous system is wrong - though who's the judge and jury? For example, the Greek taxation and pension system needs to be meddled with big time, if there's to be the remotest chance of them staying in the euro, or even remotely solvent. Irrespective of that, in this (Irish railway) case the indigenous system is right, and privatisation is wrong full stop. It is expensive and inefficient, and will represent woefully bad value for the taxpayer if it is foisted upon us.

Well, the amount of imports is due to the lack of anything here to create freight....! But, as far as the railway is concerned, it's purely academic. It's simple; railways in Ireland will cost money, and would have done even if the excellent motorway network wasn't ever built. So - we pay, we get railways. We don't - or - we divert the subsidy to private companies and their bonuses and salaries - and THEN the railways will wither and die.