jhb171achill

If NIR had been more pro-freight, there could have at one time been the possibility of - - De Lorean Dunmurry to Belfast. - Fertiliser, Guinness and cement Dundalk - Derry - same, Dundalk - Adelaide - Containers, North Wall - Portadown - Adelaide - Derry One can but dream. NIR would need its half dozen C's, maybe more than three 071s, and probably nowadays a few scond hand 141s.....

In the early 1980s, when the short-lived De Lorean car plant near Dunmurry was in operation, there was a proposal to build a siding into it and take the cars to Belfast Port via another siding off the Larne line. This would have ended up being somewhere near the Fortwilliam roundabout, very probably. The acquisition of half a dozen ex-CIE "C" class locomotives was partly with this possibility in mind. Imagine that on a Belfast 1980s based layout....

Yes. We'd probably have an electric network of - at the very least - Cobh / Midleton - Cork - Heuston - (tunnel) - Connolly - Belfast - Larne / Bangor, and the lines from Connolly to Maynooth, Howth, and Greystones. Possibly Portarlington - Galway too, maybe at a pinch Limerick Jct - Limerick.

Without straying into politics, imagine if no border had ever existed. All the CDR, CVR and LLSR, as well as the NCC narrow gauge lines, plus the NCC, GNR, BCDR and SLNCR would have become part of the overall GSR - though it would hardly have been called that. Standardisation for 3ft gauge might have followed, or Walker railcars on many of the 3ft gauge lines. But - dread of dread - all those lined maroon NCC locos would have been dull plain grey, and the CDR's red livery and the GNR's loco blue would never have existed!

Mayner, I did indeed hear of that, though I can't be certain that any work was done. While it's only a guess, I suspect that if so, it would have been a "back of envelope" job. Leslie - the 100mph was certainly not sustained, but was witnessed very briefly between (I think) Templemore and Thurles. With good maintenance and track, such feats were certainly possible. In traffic, as you say, low 90s were typical maximum.

Another "might have been" was a coastal route to Clifden, instead of through the wilds. Had that happened, Galway could well still do with what might today be a truncated line as a commuter route from Galway out to Spiddal and Salthill.....

I know Tom Ferris' vids, yes - but I must have missed that one of Macha!!!!! Now all I need is a decent video player.....

Yes - that one's still there, or certainly was until very recently - last time I looked. The last "proper" tin van is the one I meant that is regrettably long gone.

Exactly, Noel, they were indeed and for that reason primarily - though speed came as an "extra". Had the class been able to show their mettle on decent track in the 50's and 60s, their credentials as flying machines - and with heavy loads - would have been very well established. GSR800 - it wasn't so much axle loads - it was more the riding qualities of the locomotives and stock (heavier) and - more to the point - overall standards of maintenance rather than the materials used. Indeed, an 800 at speed must have been an amazing sight to behold! I would pay very serious cash for a decent film of one in full cry. If it was in colour, you can have my house, pension and car.

I'm not certain what the absolute fastest was, GSR; but on test they just exceeded 100 mph on a few occasions. As an aside, one must assume that the track was a good bit better then - without all the yellow machines and complicated procedures they use today!

The 800 class did stretch the GSR financially, but the opinions I quote are those of Inchicore at the time, not entirely mine; I simply state that this is what they thought - which of course, the benefit of retrospect can have proved to be right or wrong. The 400 class were perceived to be way better than the 500s by those involved with them, while the Woolwiches had better route availability. Had the war and the advent of diesels not happened, we'd have seen great feats accomplished by the 800s indeed.

In very early days, a "might have been" would have involved the Ulster Railway's main line approaching Belfast via Hillhall, Tullynacross, Ballylesson and what is now broadly the Malone area, with a Belfast terminus at Stranmillis.

The GSR were keen to have "flagship" train, hence not only the 800 class but also the "steels", i.e. steel-sided ("Bredin") coaches which were in fact very much influenced by contemporary LMS design. In my grandfather's time, senior design people from Inchicore, Dundalk, York Road, Derby and Swindon made visits to each other. I am unaware of whether LNER or SR people were involved. It is probably fair to say that the GSR would have done better to concentrate on more, or upgraded, 400 or "Woolwich" classes.

Minister; H & W did indeed build it, though I'm nearly sure it had a Gardner engine. Junctionmad; the Enniskerry Railway ran out of money before it was barely started, and I think there were issues about the chosen route. At least one archway was built and may still be seem just below the village. Re 800's possible withdrawal date, Inchicore thinking would have been guided by their thoughts on what techology was available at that time. No doubt Oliver Bullied would have had some other theories, as would CMEs in more recent times.

.........addition to the original CIE black locomotives there is also a preserved CIE black version of 141 which would run with the modern....... Puzzled.... CIE black was only on A, B101, C, D, E & G; never on 121, 141 or 181.......? Or have I missed something?

Yes, Jawfin, it is. Unfortunately, every single example of the "normal" ones - both luggage / genny, 4 & 6 wheeled - are long gone; I know this as I was actively seeking one for Downpatrick some years ago. One four wheeler survived well into the nineties, derelict in Heuston Station. Scrapped now.

Wow! Excellent stuff!

Station Master's house adjacent to the station in some cases, or "above the shop" i.e. a second storey in the station building. Signal box, goods shed, loco shed, possibly a carriage shed if it's a terminus, goods shed, and often little storage sheds like a lamp room, bicycle shed, coal / turf shed, PW men's hut, etc.

Let's hope the DD sets are a lot better when back in traffic. And that all the 29's are scrapped very soon, and none preserved! Confession time: as a diehard railway enthusiast for almost fifty years (yes, it was lorries when I was little...), any time I have to go north, the preference is - (1) car, (2) bus, and (3) train. Travel in the Rosslare direction: (1) car. That's it. Now - what way does one of the (huge majority) NON enthusiast community think?

The noisiest railcars I ever travelled in were the MEDs. I had a run once in Donegal railcars 12 and 18 - one in Finntown and the other in the short lived NWIRS site at the old Derry terminus of the CDR. Those old Gardner engined beasts were noisy! AEC cars let know they were in the area as well, especially when accelerating. Modern ones - hmmm.

Anyone got a father in law who is also a modeller!!

Mayner and others touched on train makeup with stock like this. One day about 1983 I observed the comings and goings all evening in Dundalk. Most trains were 5-6 bogies plus van, either one of the several variations of 3223-style brake gennies, a Dutch van or a BR van. In no train were more than two coaches the same, and in several no two were alike. Cravens, park royals and laminates of several designs were all present. A few years earlier, there would have been the odd Bredin too. Nowadays, if a strange vehicle was anywhere near one of today's depressingly same uniform identikit trams, there would be proving runs, Europe-wide paperwork, "certification", tests, studies and enquiries. Consultants would be engaged, at eye-watering cost to the taxpayer, while safety cases were tendered, researched, drawn up, verified, and - most bizarrely of all - "signed off on". Who dreams up this inane drivel? Why do we, after nine million years evolution, reduce ourselves to accepting this rubbish! Rant over. To modellers: mix and match pre 1990 - always. In wooden stock days, you'd struggle to get two coaches exactly the same on any rural route at all, let alone the same train; with freight stock, same.

I never liked the silver, black and yellow either. Though someone posted a pic of a 141 on a layout in that style and it looked surprisingly well, in my humble opinion..... The grey is all tight. Certainly not hugely colourful, but nor is it garish. We were accustomed to plain grey on steamers for almost half a century, after all, and nobody batted an eyelid......

Symphony in grey; the GSR lives!

Indeed, Broithe..... and also, some of today's "bad areas" were rural country villages not only when the railways were bring built, but long after many had closed! Look, for example (without labelling any very specific place) at the Dublin & Blessington Tramway. It closed in the early 1930s for the very reason that the areas it served didn't generate enough traffic. Some of those places along its route are now highly built up, and in some cases home to, emm, anti-social behaviour! Incidentally, wouldn't the D & B make an amazing concept for a layout - a quirky unusual thing along the lines of David Holman's SLNCR?