jhb171achill

Folks Updated arrangements - I've been roped in to do guard on the 1400 ex Downpatrick and the 1420 return from Inch Abbey, so I need to be there at 1330 latest. Therefore - Garfield / Warbonnet - I'll pick you folks up at the agreed spot at about 11. So, we can all be free to arrive when we want; see the arrangements above - the first of the three tours of the sheds will be immediately after the 1445 sets off for Inch Abbey. Thus, it will start promptly at 1450. Other arrangements as stated previously. Looking forward to meeting some of you! We can all meet for a bite to eat afterwards if desired.

Cue an exploration series of some closed lines? Landowner permission would of course be a major issue. None of us would want a drone over our private land with unlimited access. BallyG station is different as it's in public ownership (CIE Property Board or IE, still, presumably?)

The gold lining on the "snails", Rialto, was quite thin, and omission of it wouldn't be a great disaster! Ideally, if transfers were available with and without it...... after 1955/6, when the lighter green carriage livery came in, they were light green unlined. Steam engines of the all-grey persuasion, plus the few in green, and the even fewer in black in the very late 50s, always had lined light green "snails". Beware of yellow imitations; these are doubtless the result of (a) the incorrect livery of 461 when first restored in 1990 (it was painted black, and with a yellow "snail", neither of which were right), and (b) the fact that on grey or black engines, the cabside numerals WERE pale yellow! Luckily, a green D class is more straightforward - best of luck with it.

Absolutely, Snapper! Maybe they should bin these oul railcars and 071s and 201s, and get proper blue 4.4.0s back on the GNR main line!

Dark green as on 800 today, and not unlike that on 461. Lining, numerals and logo in pale green edged in gold. As a general point, flying snails on steam or diesel locos or coaches, were always pale green, never yellow or white.

Love the replaced planks! Just right for early UTA era. Wagon looking tatty, replanked with one painted plank and others not even painted, and the rest of the wagon still in NCC livery! Perfect replication for 1950s.

What an absolute shambles!!!!!!! Just been reading the account of what happened today.... unbelievable. Railway enthusiasts or no, the "Steam Dreams" crowd can hardly have ben impressed!

Folks DRIVERS available: 1. Me - Southside Dublin. One free seat 2. Dartstation - Dun Laoghaire 3. Portoman - Portmarnock Can others intending to travel please "ping" any of the three of us to reserve a seat. Suggested time to leave Dublin area about 1130. From North, please let me know if you have difficulty obtaining transport. Thus far, I have no actual offers of lifts from Belfast.

Excellent, Garfield I have one free seat; I'm collecting Warbonnet and Garfieldsshost in Dublin. However, I need to stand in as train guard on the 1400 departure so I'll need to be at the railway about 1330. (Garfield - can I pick you and WB up at about 1130?) OTHERS: One of our number (Dartstation) can offer a lift for anyone in the Dun Laoghaire area or close by -can anyone interested please send a PM to him to arrange pick ups. (Dartstation - many thanks for your offer of transport). Those travelling from Belfast / based in the north - you might liaise with each other. IF ANY OF THOSE WHO EXPRESSED INTEREST IN THIS VISIT CAN OFFER LIFTS, OR HAVE DIFFICULTIES OBTAINING THEM, PLEASE POST HERE. All of us read these boards. Also, you can PM me and if I can make any arrangements for you, I will. Otherwise, I'll see you all at Downpatrick, where the programme already mentioned in post above will take place. This will be a unique opportunity for enthusiasts / modellers to obtain access to areas not normally available to anyone other than rostered working members.

IRISH RAILWAY MODELLER GROUP - MODELLER’S VISIT TO DOWNPATRICK & CO. DOWN RAILWAY Saturday 20th June 2015 Downpatrick is approximately two hours drive from Dublin. Head to Dundalk, then Newry, on the motorway, then into Newry town. From there, the way is signposted over the Mournes. See their website: http://www.downrail.co.uk/ I suggest that we arrange to meet at Downpatrick at 12:30. This will enable me to identify everyone and ensure we’re all in together, which in turn will assist in facilitating shed visits. Myself and another DCDR member will personally conduct these visits. The timetable circular for the day is as follows: __________________________________________________________________________________ Downpatrick Dep. 1230 1400 1445 1530 1610 1700 1745 Inch Abbey Arr. 1240 1410 1455 1540 1620 1710 1755 Inch Abbey Dep. 1300 1420 1505 1550 1630 1720 1815 Downpatrick Arr. 1310 1430 1515 1600 1640 1730 1825 (Trains in italics are empty stock / light engine movements) The rostered locomotives for the day are: O & K No. 1 for the 1400, 1445, 1530 and 1615 trains, with GM No. 146 on the Empty Stock train at 1230, the 1700 passenger train and the ECS return at 1745. __________________________________________________________________________________ Those arriving early will be able to watch whatever shunting is in progress prior to commencement of operations. When the 1815 ECS from Inch Abbey arrives, further shunting may take place. In addition to the timetabled services, the Gallery will be open. This may be visited at your leisure during the day. This contains two MGWR six-wheelers, the three restored BCDR coaches including the Golfer’s Saloon and the Railmotor. GSWR No. 90 is also present there, as well as the NIR Railbus. SHED VISITS will be arranged as follows: 1. At 1400, immediately after departure of the 1400 passenger train. 2. At 1445, immediately after departure of the 1445 passenger train 3. At 1610, immediately after departure of the 1610 passenger train. Each visit must take place promptly at the times stated, as they involve crossing the main line track which is in use. Health and safety regulations will require the limitation of each visit to half an hour, as we must be back across the tracks before the incoming return train. If you wish to participate in two or all three visits in order to photograph or measure all you want to, that’s fine. Opposite the station are both a chipper and a sandwich place. There’s a decent bar two minutes’ walk up the street. We can meet up after our visit to swop ideas and maybe have a bite to eat. The DCDR can accept Euros and credit card payments. You are encouraged to buy their tea and confectionery, to support the railway. Please also consider supporting their bookshop. Please obey any directions given by DCDR staff at all times. See you there! jhb171achill 087 2828905 jhb171@gmail.com

When will the Midland 2.4.0 be available?

Could everyone intending to travel on Saturday to the DCDR let me have their names and email addresses, please, and I will try to coordinate transport for all. I have arranged all-day travel for all, plus a supervised visit to areas normally out of bounds. Price will be about €10 max / £7. Motive power will be O & K No. 1 on the following trains: 1400, 1445, 1530 and 1615. On the 1700 departure, and 1720 return from Inch Abbey, GM No. 146 is rostered. Let me know your avaiability. I'll circulate exact details on Thursday.

In the States, they remotely control locos mid-train and at the back, so they all do the same things at the same time.

There were two proposals of interest on NIR in the 1980s.... one was shipping of De Lorean cars from the Dunmurry factory to the docks, and the other was lignite (brown coal) from Crumlin (on the Antrim branch) to Belfast docks. That's mainly what they got the six "C" class for.

If Ireland had coal mines on a British scale..... 2.10.0's hauling huge coal trains out of Arigna, Coalisland, Deerpark, Wolfhill and perhaps other places..... Today, 201s would doubtless be doing the honours. It could even have resulted in double headed 071 class....

That is truly superb work.

Broithe - could be, never thought of that.... Mike 84c - you've nothing to be sorry for, my friend; I wish I had your modelling skills! And please do keep posting your pictures! Banana skins, indeed; the lack, until comparatively recently, of any decent amount of colour photos - and, ones which had retained decent colour resolution over the years - didn't help. Nor did the often badly weathered nature of many items of rolling stock..... On a general note, I always think a good dose of heavy weathering can cover up, on a model, details we mightn't be certain of....

I was asked recently about this; some confusion occasionally reigns! "Snails" will variously be seen on both preserved items of locos and rolling stock, and models, which, unfortunately, aren't the correct colours. For many, of course, it doesn't matter, but in the interests of historical accuracy for those who seek to recreate such things, here goes: Steam Locomotives Always EDN*, never pale yellow; despite the fact that loco numerals in CIE days WERE in pale yellow. Neither snails nor numerals were ever white, unless one includes a temporarily chalked number in 1959 on the buffer beam of a Cavan & Leitrim loco! EDN+ "snails" were always lined in gold, as on carriages pre-1955, and on buses well into the 60's. If anyone wants an accurate representation of what was actually therefore the ONLY variety ever to grace a steam loco tender, the ones on 461 currently, and that on display in the "Headhunters" Railway Museum in Enniskillen, are correct (the latter being original). Thus a grey loco should have an unlined pale yellow cab numeral, and a lined EDN "snail". When locos were green, an gold lined EDN snail was also the way to go, without exception. In this livery, painted numerals were lined EDN also, not the normal pale yellow as on grey locos. On the few locos which received black livery late on (really only about 1958 onwards, and even then probably no more than a dozen or so all over the country), snails were again lined EDN, with cabside numerals light yellow - in other words, the same markings as a grey loco. When 461 was first outshopped at Whitehead about 1990, it was painted black by the RPSI. It carried a yellow "snail" for a while on the tender, though this was soon painted out. The black livery was inaccurate; simply the preference of the volunteers who then worked on her. The yellow snail was entirely inaccurate for this, or any other loco. For the record, the painting over of this was again, nothing more than local preference of the people who worked on her at that time - no other significance. Just as the owner of a layout is completely at liberty to paint a model of 800 pink, a preservationist who has put long hours into restoring something is the man with the paintbrush! As long as an inaccurate livery doesn't go into the history books as something the vehicle actually carried (like the GNR goods van "Ivan"'s zebra stripes of black ironwork at Whitehead) then, that's fine - if accuracy is wanted, it can always be repainted. This columnist seeks to record accuracy, where available information can definitively confirm this - not under any circumstances to criticise anyone's modelling or preservation work. Incidentally, the CIE "H" van and the NCC goods brake van at Downpatrick, the explosives van in Cultra, and in fact, every preserved item of goods stock I can think of - are very inaccurately painted! The single "Woolwich" which was repainted for the "Rosslare Express" had, of course, the standard EDN lined snail, but I am not sure whether the cabside numeral on it was light yellow - there's a possibility that, as a one-off, it might have been lined EDN, as on a green loco, as well. This loco carried red lining - again, a one-off - as if it had been a GSWR loco. I've never been able to establish that beyond doubt. Carriages In the pre-1955 darker (Brunswick Green) livery, numerals, snails and lining were EDN, lined in gold in all cases. After 1950, railcars had the dark green first, and eventually the lighter green, in each case lined like 3223 at Downpatrick; i.e. a single mid-body (and thinner) line, snail and numerals; all three being now UNlined in gold. After the green got lighter in 1955, the same EDN was used for lining, numerals and snails. Post 1955, those carriages that were newly outshopped unpainted (i.e. the short-lived silver "livery" - which due to entire lack of paint wasn't actually a "livery" at all!), soon attained the lighter green; by 1957 new builds were beginning to have the lighter green. This, today, is accurately reproduced on the RPSI Dublin "Heritage" set, and on the DCDR, on C231, the TPO, and G611. Snails, lining and numerals on this lighter green were always, without exception, unlined EDN. Goods Stock Snails were always white, unlined, and latterly (probably post 1955/6?) applied to goods vehicles by stencil. White was never used on carriages or locos. I hope this clarifies things. A few other items relating to 1950s CIE liveries, while we're here - these are based on observations over the years of preservation and modelling examples: - when modelling goods vans, roofs always body colour, not black; when modelling vans painted post-1969 bauxite brown, always a brown roof, not grey. - when modelling goods stock, chassis almost never black; always, again, body colour, with a very few exceptions. NCC / UTA "Brown Vans" are one such; for them, always black chassis. GNR passenger four-wheel parcel vans were also painted like passenger vehicles, with brown body sides, black chassis and light grey roofs. - CIE coaches tended to always have black roofs, though I've seen at least one photo which shows a coach which could be either badly faded black, but possibly a dark grey. UTA coaches had roofs of a somewhat lighter grey, not unlike that on goods wagons. - In the darker and lighter CIE green liveries, coach ends were black. - When CIE / GSR locos were plain grey, this not only extended to wheels, all motion, cab roof, smokebox and even chimney, but also to the background on the numberplate. The numerals and rims were picked out in very pale yellow, cream, or smoothed to bare metal as on Whitehead's 186. They have been recorded somewhere in recent years as being red - this is incorrect. They had red backgrounds in earlier GSWR days, but not after the plain grey livery appeared about 1915. That'll do for tonight! *EDN = "Eau-de-nil"; a long-winded and faintly preposterous name for a very pale green! (Eau-de-nil..... "water of nothing".... Eh??? )

Are these things broad or narrow gauge, steam or diesel?

Times like this, I wish Senior was about; he could have given us chapter and verse on that six months ago! Wouldn't "Sir William" be a fine candidate for preservation, and a 400 class 4.6.0!

Wow!!!!! Top notch!

All models should be priced at sixteen shillings and thruppence three-farthings.

I'll delve, junctionmad, next time I'm in there.

That's pure laziness.... a retailer who can't be bothered to price things in the customer's currency can't be too eager to do business....!

Junctionmad, I am sure you checked out the Jimmy O'Dea collection in the National Photographic Archive, and the IRRS?