jhb171achill

The 800 class did stretch the GSR financially, but the opinions I quote are those of Inchicore at the time, not entirely mine; I simply state that this is what they thought - which of course, the benefit of retrospect can have proved to be right or wrong. The 400 class were perceived to be way better than the 500s by those involved with them, while the Woolwiches had better route availability. Had the war and the advent of diesels not happened, we'd have seen great feats accomplished by the 800s indeed.

In very early days, a "might have been" would have involved the Ulster Railway's main line approaching Belfast via Hillhall, Tullynacross, Ballylesson and what is now broadly the Malone area, with a Belfast terminus at Stranmillis.

The GSR were keen to have "flagship" train, hence not only the 800 class but also the "steels", i.e. steel-sided ("Bredin") coaches which were in fact very much influenced by contemporary LMS design. In my grandfather's time, senior design people from Inchicore, Dundalk, York Road, Derby and Swindon made visits to each other. I am unaware of whether LNER or SR people were involved. It is probably fair to say that the GSR would have done better to concentrate on more, or upgraded, 400 or "Woolwich" classes.

Minister; H & W did indeed build it, though I'm nearly sure it had a Gardner engine. Junctionmad; the Enniskerry Railway ran out of money before it was barely started, and I think there were issues about the chosen route. At least one archway was built and may still be seem just below the village. Re 800's possible withdrawal date, Inchicore thinking would have been guided by their thoughts on what techology was available at that time. No doubt Oliver Bullied would have had some other theories, as would CMEs in more recent times.

.........addition to the original CIE black locomotives there is also a preserved CIE black version of 141 which would run with the modern....... Puzzled.... CIE black was only on A, B101, C, D, E & G; never on 121, 141 or 181.......? Or have I missed something?

Yes, Jawfin, it is. Unfortunately, every single example of the "normal" ones - both luggage / genny, 4 & 6 wheeled - are long gone; I know this as I was actively seeking one for Downpatrick some years ago. One four wheeler survived well into the nineties, derelict in Heuston Station. Scrapped now.

Wow! Excellent stuff!

Station Master's house adjacent to the station in some cases, or "above the shop" i.e. a second storey in the station building. Signal box, goods shed, loco shed, possibly a carriage shed if it's a terminus, goods shed, and often little storage sheds like a lamp room, bicycle shed, coal / turf shed, PW men's hut, etc.

Let's hope the DD sets are a lot better when back in traffic. And that all the 29's are scrapped very soon, and none preserved! Confession time: as a diehard railway enthusiast for almost fifty years (yes, it was lorries when I was little...), any time I have to go north, the preference is - (1) car, (2) bus, and (3) train. Travel in the Rosslare direction: (1) car. That's it. Now - what way does one of the (huge majority) NON enthusiast community think?

The noisiest railcars I ever travelled in were the MEDs. I had a run once in Donegal railcars 12 and 18 - one in Finntown and the other in the short lived NWIRS site at the old Derry terminus of the CDR. Those old Gardner engined beasts were noisy! AEC cars let know they were in the area as well, especially when accelerating. Modern ones - hmmm.

Anyone got a father in law who is also a modeller!!

Mayner and others touched on train makeup with stock like this. One day about 1983 I observed the comings and goings all evening in Dundalk. Most trains were 5-6 bogies plus van, either one of the several variations of 3223-style brake gennies, a Dutch van or a BR van. In no train were more than two coaches the same, and in several no two were alike. Cravens, park royals and laminates of several designs were all present. A few years earlier, there would have been the odd Bredin too. Nowadays, if a strange vehicle was anywhere near one of today's depressingly same uniform identikit trams, there would be proving runs, Europe-wide paperwork, "certification", tests, studies and enquiries. Consultants would be engaged, at eye-watering cost to the taxpayer, while safety cases were tendered, researched, drawn up, verified, and - most bizarrely of all - "signed off on". Who dreams up this inane drivel? Why do we, after nine million years evolution, reduce ourselves to accepting this rubbish! Rant over. To modellers: mix and match pre 1990 - always. In wooden stock days, you'd struggle to get two coaches exactly the same on any rural route at all, let alone the same train; with freight stock, same.

I never liked the silver, black and yellow either. Though someone posted a pic of a 141 on a layout in that style and it looked surprisingly well, in my humble opinion..... The grey is all tight. Certainly not hugely colourful, but nor is it garish. We were accustomed to plain grey on steamers for almost half a century, after all, and nobody batted an eyelid......

Symphony in grey; the GSR lives!

Indeed, Broithe..... and also, some of today's "bad areas" were rural country villages not only when the railways were bring built, but long after many had closed! Look, for example (without labelling any very specific place) at the Dublin & Blessington Tramway. It closed in the early 1930s for the very reason that the areas it served didn't generate enough traffic. Some of those places along its route are now highly built up, and in some cases home to, emm, anti-social behaviour! Incidentally, wouldn't the D & B make an amazing concept for a layout - a quirky unusual thing along the lines of David Holman's SLNCR?

Puts me in mind of a pint of Guinness. See yeh in the Golden Ball tonight.....

Oil conversions were greeted with mixed views among the engineering bods in Inchicore. Had steam continued, I dare say they would have continued with experiments in the oil burning world. With oil and coal being both imported into Ireland, the price of each would have had a major bearing on this. I mentioned that 800 etc would have been in main line service until maybe 2000. I'm quite sure that depending on funding for new steam engines in, say, the 1990s, they might have lasted longer in front-line service. However, they'd likely have eked out their days on whatever freight was on offer. They'd probably still be about today. As we all know, it was by no means uncommon for steam locomotives to see out a century and more in working order - all over the world and throughout the steam era.

Having said that, what was a "good" area in the mid nineteenth century when most railways were built, and where the "bad" areas then were, is often very different from the way things are today. High class and fashionable rich merchant's town houses in Georgian times became the most awful tenements a hundred years later. Some "bad" areas have had old substandard housing cleared away and smart new developments built there instead.

1. In 1947, the NCC carried out a survey of the Ballycastle line with a view to converting it to 5' 3". Unsurprisingly, the conclusion was that it would be too expensive for the traffic on offer. The UTA would gave closed it a few years later in any case. 2. In the early 60s, the UTA investigated building a direct curve if the Belfast Central into Great Victoria Street. This was shelved as they decided that the necessary curve would be too sharp. Thirty years later, they built it anyway! 3. During World War 2, consideration was given to quadrupling the Belfast - Lisburn line due to the possibility of very greatly increased military traffic to the American air base at Gortnagallon on the Antrim branch, some part of which at least might have had to be doubled. 4. The transatlantic port idea above had numerous manifestations. Belmullet would be the terminus, and various routes were proposed to connect it to the railway network. One traversed the north Mayo coast via Ballycastle, Co Mayo; another (which actually was the last proposed, about 1909) went direct from Ballina through Crossmolina and Bangor Erris. Thus one actually made it into a school atlas as having been built! Another, which without doubt would have been Ireland's most picturesque railway, would have left the Achill line about three mikes west of Mallaranny, struck out on a long Cahirciveen-style viaduct across Bellacragher Bay, and proceeded north via Castlehill, Ballycroy and Bangor Erris, before turning west to Belmullet. 5. When the 800 class were built, their anticipated lifespan in full front line service would gave seen them operating until about 2000! "Maedb" in black'n'tan, anyone? 6. The UTA gave consideration to painting ALL steam locos - even narrow gauge and shunters, in a lined light apple green livery. Only "WT" No. 5 ever received this, and as an extremely short-lived experiment. 7. The NCC tested a 3ft gauge railcar on the former Ballymena & Larne line. It had been built as a one-off for export to a South American line (anyone know where it went?). Had they taken the view that it would have been suitable, it would have been a precursor to a substantial dieselisation of the B & L and Ballycastle narrow gauge lines; possibly the Victoria Road - Strabane line too.

Can you fit a layout into a typical Doghouse, along with a sofa and a beer fridge?

The Kerry road is likewise not a great one for high speeds! I can't stand the 29's.....

Can the moderators ban wives and girlfriends from seeing IRM? .... :-)

Indeed they did, Nelson, on the "Enterprise". I have a colour slide somewhere of the CIE set about 1963, consisting of a brand newv 141 - straight out of the box and not even weathered yet - hauling a train of mixed laminates and ex-GNR stock, mostly still green but one or two in black'n'tan. There would have been a few green coaches still about until maybe 1965 / 6. Obviously, like any livery change, it was gradual, though CIE tended to look after coaches very well and therefore they were all repainted every 2-3 years.

Doubtless one of the attendees might post a few pics up?

Update; the probable modus operandi on the day will have steam (No. 1) on the 1400, 1445, 1530 and 1615 departures, and the 1700 will have either A39 (requested) or 146 in charge. This could change, so it can't be seen as a deal-breaker, as it were, but that's the plan. So we'd probably leave Dublin mid or late morning, and on arrival via a lunch stop rendezvous, we can do our photography, measuring or travelling by steam first, as well as tours of loco shed, signal cabin and carriage gallery, finishing with cab rides on the A, hopefully. With (now) 14 of us, it won't be possible to accommodate all in the cab, but we will see what we can do. Nearer the time, or following updates from DCDR's Operations Officer, I'll post updates.