jhb171achill

It most certainly is, Minister. It's one I've been following with interest (as Derailed had observed!). I am aware that several organisations and many individuals with various expertise or at the very least a sympathetic interest, have been lobbying Derry City Council for tests, to no avail. Many years ago, I had dealings with one gentleman in DCC in relation to an RPSI matter and I quickly got the impression he was a lone voice of reason within; but he has long gone. The stark reality here, as I pointed out on IRN, is that museums cost money to run (ask DCDR, Donegal, RPSI or UFTM; none of which, incidentally, is in a position to directly assist), and no official body either has it, wants to part with it, or both. Even in Britain where they have twelve times our population and a much greater net worth per head, some heritage organisations have struggled for decades to become viable visitor attractions. Look, for example, at the erstwhile Welsh Highland Railway (1964) Ltd.! There's no substitute for a lot of volunteers turning up week after week, year after year, decade after decade, giving all their spare time and not a little of their own cash, to get these things going. Derry just doesn't seem to have the critical mass. What needs to happen in the long run in both Derry and, as another story, Tralee, is that the local authorities concerned hand these things over to volunteers. Until and unless they do, they'll get no volunteers, partly because they wouldn't be welcome, partly because nobody in their right mind would take orders or direction from a local authority without being paid! No volunteers means either shutters and locks, or a wage bill for the local authority. Which means significant financial cost - which means local councillors, especially in these times, will seek to cut costs. So - let's hope imminent storage is at least vandal-proof. That's the best short term outcome, seriously imperfect though it is. Then, maybe - just maybe - lobbying by the general enthusiast community might persuade the relevant bodies to just hand the lot over to a suitable organisation. This, incidentally, applies equally and almost as a mirror image in Tralee, where local authority involvement has completely banjaxed what could have been a great visitor attraction. Funding isn't easy now either. The days of free grant money are gone. Organisations usually have put up match funding of their own. If you've a three mile railway, like in Derry, and it costs say £1million sterling to do the whole railway and loco and so on, who on earth will cough up the half million to match the grant? That's the problem. It's not easy.

Ten "very"'s - excellent! Prototype exact! :-)

David, I could ping you more pics privately showing that model if you want, illustrating the colour in daylight and artificial light. PM me if interested.

Very true, Mike. I burned the midnight oil till well into the small hours in recent times going through this stuff. I've had it got some years, but it's only recently I've got around to starting to sort and catalogue it all. Here's a book published by the LMS about their Irish Sea shipping services, complete with original compliment slip...

Garfield - even late 50's, only a handful were black. Few locos saw a paintbrush after 1954 or 1955, and of those that did only some wore black. Obviously, those that did only did for a very short time before withdrawal. Prior to about 1954, and going right back to GSWR in 1915, nothing was black - all grey excerpt: 800 class - always green. Their own unique GSR green livery until 1945, then (darker) CIE green until withdrawal. Late 1940s on - CIE green on many (but not all) main line passenger locos, many Dublin suburban tank locos plus a single 60 class 4.4.0. A layout based, say, about 1955-64 with steam on it might statistically have thirty grey locomotives (if the owner was wealthy enough!) and one black......

That one does look black. The picture was taken in the late 50s or early 60s by the look of it. In those final years, a few locos were indeed repainted black, but not many. That may well be one. The tender, though, is certainly grey! No J15s were black - I say that as they were the most numerous class, but grey's the thing for them. The loco above is a G2; I'm away from my notes tonight so can't tell offhand which classes did have black examples.

I'm replying here since I was asked the question... I do try to limit my input here to what I think might interest modellers, however I do share the great concern on what happens the FVR stuff. In answer, a number of people are doing all they can in the background to at the very least minimise potential damage. Some of these people I know - and for what it's worth I've added my own voice. Others I don't know, but I wish them well and hope they are successful. For those interested as Derailed says, there is a post on IRN which covers the opinions of at least some of those concerned. Let's hope that some sort of solution comes about. It would be a tragedy of monumental proportions if, after half a century of insecurity, a proper long term home could be found for the unique exhibits up there.

That's the one, Tony; and Arial it is....

That's one of Father Jack's secret sons....

€20, Roxy? You got off very lightly there........

I'm told she will have a revised logo, Warbonnet. Same swirl, different print font. From memory, it's mostly red.

I'll skip the tea, but I'll take the two €20 notes!

I'll suggest THAT to Noreen as well! If you're ever in Doolin, ask for Noreen in the chocolate shop. Her family owns it. I'm off thread I know; I'll leave it at that! :-)

I know the owner of the Father Ted house in Co Clare.... must tell her it's depicted in model form - she'd be delighted!

I think that's the best livery yet for the Enterprise (not that the other two were anything to write home about!) Who'll be first to photoshop it onto a pic of an A class or an 071?

That would equate to two short stretches of line which jointly held the steepest in Ireland for 5ft 3 in the past. One was a short stretch just beyond King Magnus' Grave at Downpatrick, and the last quarter-mile approaching Hillsborough from the Knockmore Junction direction. They were, I think, about 1:65.

And here's exact Inchicore paint to give you the colour! See my post on liveries of GSR / CIE locos.... this is a model made at Inchicore and painted in their actual paint about 1920.

Sounds about right, Minister.

Not sure, Weshty, without seeing the actual Humbrol paints. The colour currently carried by 186 was seen as absolutely spot-on by those few surviving who witnessed the real thing newly done in Inchicore (jhb171 senior being one). I've compared this model to it and it's fine. AB0032 Dark Grey Matt would appear to be by far the best of those you identified above. None of the others look right.

Attached are some pictures of a model "O" gauge locomotive made by my grandfather when in Inchicore, as a toy for my father. The interest for modellers here, and indeed preservationists who will ever have anything to do with 90, 184, 186 and 461, is that it is painted with actual GSWR (or GSR / CIE) standard loco grey. You can see where the original description comes from of having "a bluish tinge" when clean. You can also see that in certain lighting conditions it looks much more like black, which has frequently given rise to assumptions that the locos actually were black. In order to illustrate that point, I have photographed it from a number of angles, both in daylight and artificial light. If anyone's interested in seeing the thing, ping me privately. Some engines had the cab interior painted this colour, but the majority had plain grey there too.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that locomen in general were happy enough with the 670s, though (like in many a locomotive class) some were deemed better than others. The 820 class were the thing that never appeared, the "design that got away". Based on the B1a 800 class, they were a fast 4.6.2 tank engine. One can only wonder! I have no idea what loco men thought of 850...... interesting....

Hahahahahahahahahaha excellent

I must look that up, Weshty. I thought that when I was posting it. Again, without checking anything yet, I wonder (aloud!) if the GSWR rebuilt and 2.4.0's as 4.4.0's like the Midland did...

This is a photograph of a model locomotive made by apprentices in Inchicore in the 1880s. It is on display in the Institute of Mechanical Engineers in London and may be viewed by prior appointment. The model stands about a metre high. The livery is the correct pre-1895 lined green, as displayed nowadays on No. 90 in Downpatrick. I would make one qualification: due to a misleading instruction of mine, the running board is lined brown on 90 but as you can see it should be lined maroon. Mea Culpa.... The only missing detail is the numberplate, as this model doesn't have one. If it did, the background would be black, with polished numerals. The GSWR painted numberplate backgrounds black until about 1895, thereafter they were red for a short period, and grey from the mid-1910s to the end of steam, matching the all-grey body. Contrary to some sources, plates were never black against a grey-painted background. The paintwork on this model was done in Inchicore's paint shop.

Excellent work! They look fantastic. In answer, the gangways were generally day-glo.