jhb171achill

A handful did - the MGWR even had several (but only several) with a full length side corridor. Overall, the NORM in all 6-wheelers of all classes on all railways was just a row of non-connected compartments, sometimes with just the central two sharing a jax. The exceptions, where they existed, were a fascinating mix, though. I am unaware of the internal layout of any DSER ones having any sort of mini-corridor. jhb171Senior never recalled any having it when he commuted on the Harcourt St line in the late 1920s and the 1930s. he DID recall, though, that (like the GNR and the MGWR at the very least), some of the DSER stock only had half-height internal partitions - which schoolboys used to climb over into the next compartment.... That's a fantastic looking model, by the way! 0 or 00 scale?

What IS that thing?

Indeed.... You'd have got "pairs" of mixed 121 / 141 / 181 types way back fifty years ago, right up to the mid-noughties; first time I saw a 121 + 141 combo was, I think, in 1972............... so it's a prototypical scene which covers some thirty years and more....

Good luck with it! I’ve a few working timetables from early GSR days which show it, if that’s any help.

They've even got the colour scheme accurate enough for the Western District of the GNR(I)!

If there's anything at all, it's going to be in the IRRS archives. You'd need to set sail for Dublin and speak to Herbie or Tim about access. The archives are normally closed in the summer. From West Cork, we can give you directions on how to get to Jackeen Land, and how to go through immigration at the Pale border!

Yes. Brake van liveries were as follows. 1. Non CIE standard types: grey all over from birth to death. Snails latterly, a few got CIE roundels in their final days. At least one old ex-GNR van did. 2. CIE standards, be they planked or sheet steel, be they 20T or 30T: (a) All over grey from new, snails, grey ducket. (b) After about 1963, roundels start appearing. (c) Not quite at the same time but soon after, ducket is painted yellow and black diagonal stripes, with the bit above and below the ducket plain black. Grey roof, grey chassis as before. (d) After 1970, substiture brown for grey. Brown chassis, brown roof, brown everything - but yellow and black striped ducket again, and also again with black bit above and below it. By the mid 1960s, when the striped duckets were beginning to appear, this coincided with the withdrawal of the very last of all older types. I'm unaware of any MGW vans or DSE examples even entering the 1960s, and GNR ones were withdrawn almost as soon as CIE got them. A few old GSWR ones were retained - one was ordinarily resident on the Loughrea branch, the other on the Castleisland branch, during the 1960s, but both remained plain grey until final withdrawal.

Interesting shots, and topical in view of the new 00 Works release and Hattons 6-wheelers. 193 was the solitary J15 to have a black smokebox and grey livery; usually they were all grey. This one was repainted thus as late as 1961 in Cork (or possiboly Limerick). Six months or so later it was withdrawn from use. This is probably the best colour phot in existence showing a clean grey livery. The 6-wheel van is one of just six or seven such to survive the final mass extinction of all remaining six-wheel PASSENGER-carrying stock in early 1963. These surviving full vans continued in use for a few years more. While no record is known of one in actual use beyond 1968, as far as I am aware, two were technically still on the books until 1970; one of these at least being out of use in practice. It is known that 3 of the survivors (including Downpatrick's No. 69) received black'n'tan - the others probably remained green as two of these were gone by 1965. Hattons will be offering the GSWR full brake type in black'n'tan - obviously all the others will be in the two green liveries. I think the van shown above is 79 - another was on thge Ballinrobe branch until closure - but in recently-acquired black'n'tan. Indeed - it was also used on passenger trains on the Youghal branch for a while in the early 1960s.

Correct, though an unusual design.

Not THAT much on 1st July indeed; but I was at the centenary celebrations on that day fifty years ago, so I just had to go back for the 150th! Arrrrrggghhhh!!!! Ther "colourisation" Monster strikes again!

The rare No. 3 "Pender" is pictured at an ever rarer location - on the quays at Ramsey! The man standing on Port Erin platform, and at the MER Ramsey terminus is my grandfather, HJAB. That's the one! It was a dull bauxite-red colour, probably the same as the locomotives had been up to the late 1960s Ailsa era.

Superb stuff, gents! Must dig up my dad's photos of it again from the 1930s (first visit) to early 1950s (second visit there)........ Here goes:

It’s beautiful too! Cue for a 3ft gauge layout; the Inishbofin Railway….!

Anyone heading over to manxland next week for any of these events? I'm going myself, to renew my acquaintance with this fascinating railway. I attended the centenary events fifty years ago too, but I doubt I'll see the 200th! In 1973, it was still the old IOMR company which ran the system, as it would not be nationalised for another couple of years. It was still very old-world, with the full canopied Douglas station and all platforms in existence, though only the two faces of the (now gone) south lin e platform were in use. Today, what's left of the station is a travesty - just a roofless Peel platform and all the sidings, yard and carriage shed gone...... but at least the Port Erin line is in fine form. When I was there in 1973, myself and jhb171Senior took off to explore the now-closed, but completely intact, Peel and Ramsey lines. Everything remained in place, station buildings locked, but with office furniture and stationery in the ticket office still visibile through windows. Vandals had yet to turn their attentions to it; no doubt the law in place at the time permitting public floggings for vandals might have had some sway there.......... Ramsey station still had a rail-borne crane in it, at the goods bank, while at St. Johns there was a carriage shed full of carriages, plus a long siding full of the old Manx Northern Cleminson six-wheelers. Not long after we got home the carriage shed in St Johns was set on fire, with the loss of many old stored carriages.

Agreed. The old metal ones obtainable as kits are a bit heavy. These wagons were officially known as "Convertible vans", as in convertible from general goods use (with tarpaulin) to cattle use (without). Examples could indeed be found in traffic until about 1961 at the very latest (in West Cork, perhaps), so while they did indeed survive into the diesel era, we're talking of dirty silver A, C & B101 classes, but not "yanks". And several will be needed for Dugort Harbour, of course.......

Correct, yes. All steam locos had the lower one. This applied to grey locos, the few that were black, or green ones. Cabside numerals on grey or black locos were pale 9not bright) yellow, and on green locos the numbers were also pale green, lined gold, like the "snail" transfer. No steam loco ever carried a yellow (or, as on old lima models, white!) flying snail. When locos had cast plates, these were variously picked out in pale yellow (but grey, not black, backgrounds), or just painted over. A few had the numbers polished bare metal - jhbSenior noted several such at Inchicore in the early 1940s.

VERY true indeed!

Yes, 186 is correct - in fact, the shade of grey was correctly colour matched at the time and confirmed accurate by several ex-GSR men then still living. The 461 black livery was incorrect in detail - while that loco seems to have been very briefly black in the very late 50s, it was always plain grey after the DSER became part of the GSR and CIE. On the RPSI's 461, the yellow "flying snail" was wrong - no steam engine ever carried anything but the standard pale green "snail", lined gold - in other words, the same transfers as on the sides of carriages and buses!

Wow - crazy stuff, all right. It does very starkly show, though, the utter contempt that large companies (including railway companies) had for the safety of their workers........... had we never had trade unions, things would still be the same...........!

Correct. MOST had them, but just some didn’t. Apologies if I implied none had double! Yes, it’s a first with a luggage compartment. The GSWR & MGWR had similar, though obviously if very different body design.

Believe it or not, I’m only seeing it now! I prefer posts from the 1950s, as they were written aboard six-wheelers on the Ballinrobe branch…..

An interesting thing about GNR six wheelers is that uniquely in Ireland, many had no lower footstep . And yes, that Knockmore photo is as I suggested - full van, followed by a third, and the other two will inevitably be a second and a first, or another third (especially if it’s off the Antrim line) and a 1st / 2nd composite.

That would never catch on............. Actually looks fantastic!

Where's the black'n'tan one............

Go for six-wheelers, 27ft - 30ft length. While the GNR(I) had nothing whatsoever to do with the British GNR, by sheer coincidence it not only shared a name, but due to at one time a common engineer, similarities in some loco and coach designs. The long wheelbase type of four wheelers, with "modern" 1890s-style body shapes, never ran in Ireland in general and certaintly not on the GNR, so the best thing is Hattons six-wheelers in the LNER or GNR teak livery. The sort of typical make up will be similar to that on other rural Irish lines, namely (in the case of the GNR) typically something like a full 6w brake, a first, second and third, or more likely a third and a 1st / 2nd composite. Lines like Cootehill and Belturbet had mixed trains too, so add an old GNR brake van, a van or two, one open, and a cattle wagon or two.