Rue-d-etropal.com

[David Holman]

Came across this as one of the small ads in this month's Railway Modeller. Designed by Simon Dawson, the website links directly to Shapeways, so am guessing folk here may know of it. My interest is mainly 7mm scale 5'3, but this site covers other scales, while the Shapeways catalogue is pretty large too.

 These are of course 3D prints, so are body only and therefore producing a working model is definitely no gimme. The catalogue includes:

• Guinness Hudswell Clarke steam and diesel locos
• GSWR class 90 & 99 0-6-0T, also with the carriage section
• 101/J15 0-6-0, both boiler types
• SLNCR Railcar B
• Ford railcar - Donegal version, converted to 3' gauge
• Dublin and Blessington Drewery tramcar
• GNRI railcar B
• GSR Clayton steam railcar
• GSR Sentinel steam railcar
• GSR Drunk battery two car set
• MGWR 4 w coach
• MGWR 6w brake third, third and first coaches
• MGWR horsebox
• DSER Ashbury van

 For me, the Ford railcar looks the most interesting, as in Donegal guide it has a brief trial on the Clogher Valley and comes in at just under £40. A chassis wouldn't be too difficult. The 0-6-0 and coach is £80, but will need a lot of work, methinks...

[Galteemore]

I made up one of his C and L brakes in 3mm. Very brittle axle box castings broke off and ended up adapting another chassis. I know some have found the printing rough. I won’t be making another balcony out of entomology pins in a hurry!  I think @KMCEhas experience here. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Galteemore

[Andy Cundick]

Bought a MGW  coach it hangs over my workbench as an example a how bad 3d prints can be,Andy

[jhb171achill]

11 minutes ago, Andy Cundick said:

Bought a MGW  coach it hangs over my workbench as an example a how bad 3d prints can be,Andy

I've been privately shown pics of some of these prints from this manufacturer - as far as 00 scale is concerned anyway, they are VERY rough indeed. I was tempted by the computer-generated images of the MGWR stuff - I'd have bought quite a few if it was good, but it's the opposite, unfortunately.

[KMCE]

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

I think @KMCEhas experience here. 

Yes indeed; the woes I had with the Clayton railcar made the process hardly worth the effort, however the cost of the base model (>€100) was too high just to cast it to the bin.  Surface finish was very rough which is a great pity as the basic designs are good and deserve better treatment.  I wonder does the developer know / care about the poor quality or he earning enough from unsuspecting buyers?

Sadly this does affect other suppliers as it can be hard to break down the general perception that all 3D prints are "poor quality"

[jhb171achill]

13 minutes ago, KMCE said:

Yes indeed; the woes I had with the Clayton railcar made the process hardly worth the effort, however the cost of the base model (>€100) was too high just to cast it to the bin.  Surface finish was very rough which is a great pity as the basic designs are good and deserve better treatment.  I wonder does the developer know / care about the poor quality or he earning enough from unsuspecting buyers?

Sadly this does affect other suppliers as it can be hard to break down the general perception that all 3D prints are "poor quality"

True.

If any Shapeways stuff IS actually good quality and worth the (quite high) prices, that fact will sadly be lost amongst a litany of awful reviews of their other stuff.  As a result, despite there being a number of things I'd like to get off their website, without knowing specifics about individual prints of things, unfortunately I wouldn't touch them.

[GSR 800]

44 minutes ago, KMCE said:

Yes indeed; the woes I had with the Clayton railcar made the process hardly worth the effort, however the cost of the base model (>€100) was too high just to cast it to the bin.  Surface finish was very rough which is a great pity as the basic designs are good and deserve better treatment.  I wonder does the developer know / care about the poor quality or he earning enough from unsuspecting buyers?

Sadly this does affect other suppliers as it can be hard to break down the general perception that all 3D prints are "poor quality"

I can certainly vouch for suppliers here like yourself and Killian. I think the quality of 3D printing these days can be excellent. Really a shame poorer quality prints turn a lot of people off an aspect of modelling I think has huge potential now and in the future as printers continue to improve.

Shame the quality is poor considering the width of his offerings.

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, KMCE said:

Yes indeed; the woes I had with the Clayton railcar made the process hardly worth the `

I wonder does the developer know / care about the poor quality or he earning enough from unsuspecting buyer

The Developer started a RW Web thread on the "Next big step in 3D Printing" which appeared to be basically about the options for licensing his designs to potential customers for printing, as opposed to improving the quality of the end product.

The Shapeway's model is based on paying the designer a royalty on each model ordered, which leads to a temptation for developers to produce versions of an identical model in multiple scales to maximise income.

The Shapeways flexible plastic tends to be the default material chosen by designers on account of printability and low cost. A Shapeways resin printed version of the Clayton railcar is likely to cost 2.5-3 times the default version.

Interestingly some designers appear to be producing very good results in 7mm using FDM print technology, but likely to be rough from 4mm or N Scale https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/172854-wokos-bench/

[GSR 800]

1 hour ago, Mayner said:

The Developer started a RW Web thread on the "Next big step in 3D Printing" which appeared to be basically about the options for licensing his designs to potential customers for printing, as opposed to improving the quality of the end product.

The Shapeway's model is based on paying the designer a royalty on each model ordered, which leads to a temptation for developers to produce versions of an identical model in multiple scales to maximise income.

The Shapeways flexible plastic tends to be the default material chosen by designers on account of printability and low cost. A Shapeways resin printed version of the Clayton railcar is likely to cost 2.5-3 times the default version.

Interestingly some designers appear to be producing very good results in 7mm using FDM print technology, but likely to be rough from 4mm or N Scale https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/172854-wokos-bench/

It seems like he thought 3D printing would evolve differently. I know someone who does prints of Warhammer 40k stuff, and he buys and downloads designs and prints them off. No reason something similar couldn't be done here?

[David Holman]

Forgot about that railcar, Ken!

With improved printing technology, you'd think Shapeways could do better by now - or maybe they are? The lesson still seems to be that, unless you have your own, quality printer (or know someone who does), these models are best avoided. That said, the price of 3D printers is getting ever cheaper, so maybe one day, we will all have one on our workbench, just like our printer-copier next to the computer.

 Could be very useful for some things, but nobody is going to produce a 3D printed working  loco chassis any time soon, methinks. In the meantime, I'll be sticking to tried and tested methods - occasionally literally!

 Thanks for the advice folks.

[Northroader]

I think you have to be careful to put a date on the horror stories you get about Shapeways, David, Something like 10 - 12 years back I was looking round the yearly Gauge 0 do at Telford, and there was a 3D printer on display. It was busily building up something or other all on its own, and I was fascinated by it. Later on I was seeing the results, and it was a bit of a let down, they were looking like 50 ply cowpats. That was then, this is now, the machines have been improved, print materials are better, know how and techniques are better.

My own experience with Shapeways within the last two years has been a happy one. I bought one of the Rue d’Etropol’s range from them, he does a nice line in coaches for Colonel Stephens Lines, and I got a WCPR four wheel brake van, a GER cast off, in 7mm scale.(picture from the website)

It came as a greyish white, slightly translucent finish, and a dusty sort of look. Reading up on threads about these jobs, they say wash it in warm soapy water, and rub the surface where there’s any banding with emery paper. I did a little bit of this on the roof, but none on the sides where it was barely visible. The recesses at the back of the  axleguards were cleared out, and tophat bearings put in to take some Slaters wheelsets, and drawgear fitted. The lower footboards look vulnerable, and I took these off, and fitted brass strip replacements. The buffers were left, but this another thing which could become hors de combat. I wanted to put it back to GER condition, so I did new duckets in brass strip. Then undercoat, bodge a teak finish, and put some plastic sheet glazing. Here’s a couple of photos of the finished job, one taken from under which might give a good idea.

in the 7mm size, so you may think it’s dear, but then, look at the clock on the wall. How long would it take to make a fully assembled coach with such detailed moudings on the panels?

[David Holman]

Really good to know - thank you!

[Killian Keane]

On 10/2/2023 at 11:28 PM, GSR 800 said:

I can certainly vouch for suppliers here like yourself and Killian. I think the quality of 3D printing these days can be excellent. Really a shame poorer quality prints turn a lot of people off an aspect of modelling I think has huge potential now and in the future as printers continue to improve.

Shame the quality is poor considering the width of his offerings.

Very kind of you, I hope to have some West Clare wagons for 12mm gauge to show soon as well as a longer term project of a loco for Irish 00

[jhb171achill]

Yes, in 7mm it IS dear, but to be fair, very do-able, as you correctly assess; the scumble finish assists.

However, in 00, seems a big “no-no”?

 

[Mayner]

I think the computer rendered models displayed in newsgroups and on 3D print bureau sites such as Shapeways have contributed to un-realistic expectations of the standard of models that can be produced using 3D printing.

I won't go into what can or can't be modeled/printed on a home computer, designing and successful 3D models involves developing at least two new separate skill sets both with steep learning curves, a lot more complex than downloading a model from the web and printing on a home printer, in my experience not without a lot of trail, error and expense.

While not really suitable for OO or N, I would not dismiss models printed using the SLS (Shapeways Versatile Plastic) or the FDM process for O or larger scale models where a coarse surface texture and the risk of removing/obscuring fine detail is lower than the smaller scales. "Woko" appears to achieve very good results printing FDM models of British Pre-Group locos and stock in7mm including similar 4w coaches to Northroader. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/172854-wokos-bench/page/3/#comment-5082758

A local modeler produces 9mm Scale (slighter smaller than Gauge 1 on O Gauge track) models of NZR locos and stock on Shapeways. The coarse surface texture is barely noticeable in the larger scale, the effect is not unlike steel grit blasted for priming.

At this stage resin printing appears to be the best option for 4mm though the process is more expensive than Versatile Plastic, the results less predictable than the SLS & processed. Currently I am experimenting with resin printed wagon bodies and SLS chassis/running gear as I have been unable to find a Print Bureau capable of printing a chassis in a resin with similar resilient characteristics to the Bureau that printed our original production batch of wagons.

[David Holman]

Mark Clarke's Locosnstuff has developed into a wonderful resource over the last few years. Mostly aimed at narrow gauge, he covers a range of scales with a combination of etching and 3D printing.

 Mark has done several talks at the Chatham Club on the latter and is constantly updating the printers and materials he uses. He is also one of life's genuinely clever people, creating simple, innovative solutions for a range of problems.

 If nothing else, his website is well worth a look and all his stuff is high quality and good value too.

[Mayner]

Some locally based suppliers have developed composite kits combining metal and 3D printed construction https://nzfinescale.com/emporium/164-kits/f-locomotive-kit-short-frame-built-pre-1880/

Coaches combine 3D printed bodies and underframe with metal windows and detail parts.

NZ Kitsets are supplied complete with bogies, wheels gears motors.

NZR Sn 3.5 locos and stock run on OO gauge track and tend to be slightly larger in size the 4mm British outline on account of the very restricted NZ loading gauge

I am not sure how many modellers in the UK or Ireland would be prepared to pay £370 for a OO gauge loco kit or £90 for a coach kit!