GSWR 184 and 186

[226 Abhann na Suire]

Have just been pondering lately about the fate, if any, of the ex-GSWR and RPSI J15s, I believe they are on store currently and that 186 still has its boiler cert if that’s correct…? While very unprototypical, would Maam Cross or Downpatrick be a potentially suitable home for either of them?? Maam Cross, with its proposed 11 miles of rail would be a great place for 186 to stretch its… legs…? And would surely make for a magnificent site. Seems an awful waste to see two perfectly good (or at least one definitely) steam locos gathering dust in Cultra or Whitehead…

[airfixfan]

186 has no boiler cert and 184 being cosmetically restored at Whitehead.

[flange lubricator]

184 requires extensive work front tube plate and possibly a cylinder block . 

[Galteemore]

184 is currently being restored for static display. Unlikely to steam ever again. 186 is too small for current mainline ops but far too big for Downpatrick- would cost far too much to steam. 

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Have just been pondering lately about the fate, if any, of the ex-GSWR and RPSI J15s, I believe they are on store currently and that 186 still has its boiler cert if that’s correct…? While very unprototypical, would Maam Cross or Downpatrick be a potentially suitable home for either of them?? Maam Cross, with its proposed 11 miles of rail would be a great place for 186 to stretch its… legs…? And would surely make for a magnificent site. Seems an awful waste to see two perfectly good (or at least one definitely) steam locos gathering dust in Cultra or Whitehead…

184 would need a complete rebuild; most of it is worn out way beyond the point of being restorable, and will thus remain an exhibit at Whitehead. 

However, the economics of preserved railways in Ireland - even in Downpatrick, never mind very remote places like Maam X (or, for that matter, Moyasta or Finntown) are such that operation of a steam loco any bigger than a sugar company O&K, are light years beyond uneconomic.

To light up a loco like a J15 alone eats several hundred euros worth of coal, unfortunately. Despite the resources behind Maam X, it is economically more sensible to operate as, perhaps, a narrow gauge line. In addition, well-insured covered accommodation, complete with coaling & watering facilities and inspection pit, as well as reasonably equipped workshop facilities, would have to be provided in advance, before a steam locomotive of any type could be brought in.

Dealing with Downpatrick’s finances for some 11 years tends to be just as sharp a learning curve as a longer period doing the same for the RPSI!

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by jhb171achill

[GSWR 90]

Hard to believe that the end of December will make 10 years since 186 was last in steam! Where does the time go?

I would be very surprised if DCDR were to turn down any 5’3” loco offered to it, regardless of what size it is or what state it’s in, without thinking very long and very hard about it first! 

[jhb171achill]

1 minute ago, GSWR 90 said:

Hard to believe that the end of December will make 10 years since 186 was last in steam! Where does the time go?

I would be very surprised if DCDR were to turn down any 5’3” loco offered to it, regardless of what size it is or what state it’s in, without thinking very long and very hard about it first! 

They can always be attractive static exhibits, even if unsuitable for use.

[226 Abhann na Suire]

And is there any

On 17/11/2023 at 6:14 PM, jhb171achill said:

However, the economics of preserved railways in Ireland - even in Downpatrick, never mind very remote places like Maam X (or, for that matter, Moyasta or Finntown) are such that operation of a steam loco any bigger than a sugar company O&K, are light years beyond uneconomic.

And is there any scope for a cheaper wood or oil burning option, or is the costing still much the same? Dare we even hark back to the days of the post-war turf-burning initiative… the speed restriction that resulted in near 12 hour journeys between Dublin and Cork would be perfectly suitable for a heritage line…

I’m a bit of a hopeless romantic when it comes to Ireland’s railways, preserved or otherwise (I think it’s impossible not to be…!) and I just think it’d be such a shame for 186 to never steam again. 

[jhb171achill]

Yes and no. At Dromod, their locomotive has always been wood-fired - which obviously saves a fortune in fuel. However, speeds are low, distance is very short, and loads are very light, and it's flat. If you're looking at a very small engine over a hundred yards or so, that may be a solution. Turf - apart from the current ecological debate - doesn't work so well in loco fireboxes and to operate succussfully would need massive modification, possibly not soable on a given locomotive. For a loco the size of 186, I can't say for sure but would suspect that it wouldn't be satisfactory.

Stradbally use a sort of biomass, but while again suitable for a small narrow gauge loco with a small load and a short journey, this would not be suitable for a bigger loco, as I understand.

186 may well work again, as little would be required to put her back in traffic - but 184 certainly won't. If 186 does, it'll be on the main lines, so she'd get a chance to stretch her legs (wheels!)....

Oil burning - major work to convert, the result being still expensive to run and maintain. Also, like the turf, the environmental police mightn't be so keen.......

[irishrailways52]

i remember watching a program about a Japanese heritage railway that runs there small ish 4-4-0 on compressed air though it certainly is not the same as steam. 

 

[jhb171achill]

24 minutes ago, irishrailways52 said:

i remember watching a program about a Japanese heritage railway that runs there small ish 4-4-0 on compressed air though it certainly is not the same as steam. 

 

Now that would indeed be interesting!

[GSWR 90]

Always and never are words that you must always remember never to use! It's not a case of 186 never steaming again, it just likely won't steam again for the foreseeable future as far as we are aware.

Maybe eventually 93 in Cultra would be a nice size for Downpatrick or Maam Cross

Edited November 22, 2023 by GSWR 90

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, GSWR 90 said:

Always and never are words that you must always remember never to use! It's not a case of 186 never steaming again, it just likely won't steam again for the foreseeable future as far as we are aware.

Maybe eventually 93 in Cultra would be a nice size for Downpatrick or Maam Cross

Much better size. Due to brexit issues nowadays though, it would have to either stay in the north or go back there (at the borrowers considerable expense) every ten years. Plus, internally it’s another wreck! Much of what’s in Cultra is held together with Mr Sheen!

But what a beauty!

Best hope here is someone cough up a couple hundred grand, and send it to the Downs of Patrick (in a boat!). But the three locos they already have are way, way, way more economic to run than even that neat little yoke.

[226 Abhann na Suire]

On 21/11/2023 at 10:15 PM, jhb171achill said:

Yes and no. At Dromod, their locomotive has always been wood-fired - which obviously saves a fortune in fuel. However, speeds are low, distance is very short, and loads are very light, and it's flat. If you're looking at a very small engine over a hundred yards or so, that may be a solution. Turf - apart from the current ecological debate - doesn't work so well in loco fireboxes and to operate succussfully would need massive modification, possibly not soable on a given locomotive. For a loco the size of 186, I can't say for sure but would suspect that it wouldn't be satisfactory.

Oil burning - major work to convert, the result being still expensive to run and maintain. Also, like the turf, the environmental police mightn't be so keen.......

Yes ok I see, thanks for clearing that all up JB, just a shame that the offering of preserved broad gauge steam locos that could operate such railways is so small but we’ll get there eventually.
 

I know that the RPSI have plans to scratch build an NCC Mogul with the spare boiler they have for No. 4 and even the Maam Cross project list building a brand new steam loco as one of their long term goals!
 

An MGWR E Class/J26 would be so gorgeous for Maam Cross and surely would be very adorable to run (as well as being my favourite tank engine possibly ever) and would also be prototypical, having i think occasionally reached the far extremities of the Midland Great Western out to Connemara! Just a shame none of them (and the Tramore Railway on which they latterly ran…) were saved

[skinner75]

Turf is a rubbish fuel - terribly low efficiency compared to coal. Bullied gave it a go, but even with the turf soaked in oil, it still wasn't great

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Yes ok I see, thanks for clearing that all up JB, just a shame that the offering of preserved broad gauge steam locos that could operate such railways is so small but we’ll get there eventually.
 

I know that the RPSI have plans to scratch build an NCC Mogul with the spare boiler they have for No. 4 and even the Maam Cross project list building a brand new steam loco as one of their long term goals!
 

An MGWR E Class/J26 would be so gorgeous for Maam Cross and surely would be very adorable to run (as well as being my favourite tank engine possibly ever) and would also be prototypical, having i think occasionally reached the far extremities of the Midland Great Western out to Connemara! Just a shame none of them (and the Tramore Railway on which they latterly ran…) were saved

I’d love to have seen ANY Midland engine preserved, especially one of the two big express 4.4.0s…. we can but dream!

[DiveController]

Tornado Reloaded?  …. Or would it need and electric motor?

Edited November 25, 2023 by DiveController