JM Design RTR Brake Vans now on pre-order for delivery Oct-Nov 2024.

[Mayner]

The updated (MK3?) RTR version of the CIE 20T Brake Van is now available on Pre-order (with zero deposit) from our website https://jmdesignmodelrailways.com/ , I expect to release rtr models of the GSWR, LMA and early versions of the CIE H Van on a similar basis.

Plywood (1 running no) and planked (2 running no.s) bodied versions of the 20T Brake Van with all metal duckets will be available complete with interior detailing including stove and handbrake wheel

Unfortunately we have had to significantly increase our pricing over previous versions of the Brake Van to cover our manufacturing and overheads.

I am currently looking at options for re-releasing the wagons in kit form with simplified packaging to reduced cost.

[Robert Shrives]

Hi these look very good and I guess essential for back end of many trains back in the day.

Robert  

[Mayner]

I should have stressed in my last post is that the real purpose of the 'Pre-Orders" is to establish whether there is sufficient demand to continue the manufacture of RTR wagons.

I expect to make an announcement by 1st August whether or not I will be producing the latest version(s) of the brake van

[Patrick Davey]

Pre-ordered!

[Markleman]

What service ... arrived today and on the time scale of the original announcement.

Now my third 20 ton brakevan from the same source, plus a 30 ton one too.

Looks great and runs freely. The NEM box is the right height and the Kadees went in a treat.

Brilliant. Thanks.

[Patrick Davey]

Mine is on the way…..from Canada, via NZ!!!  I bet the prototypes clocked up the miles as well!  Thanks John @Mayner - looking forward to its arrival. 

[Mayner]

It usually takes two weeks to ship an item by International Air to a customer in Ireland or the UK, although orders to customers in England and Scotland are sometimes shipped in one week. (havent had any customers in Wales so far)

Interestingly although Markleman's and Patricks orders apparrently departed New Zealand at the same time, Marklemans order appears to have been shiped directly to the UK while Patrick's appears to have been shipped via North America arriving  in the UK a day later (than Marklemans order).

Tracking info indicates that Patricks and recently fulfilled orders to customers in Ireland and the UK may have been shipped via North America rather than via Asia and the Middle East.

[Mayner]

Final-Final RTR 3D printed wagon orders.

We have 3 Brake Vans & 4 Van availabe having dispatched our pre-order stock.

Vans are of the planked variety similar to the preserved Cultra Van.

1946 & LMA varieties of Covered Van with Flying Snail logo.

 

I considered a number of options for continued production including producing the 20T Brake as a RTR model in colloboration with a UK retailer (who had successfully produced a 3D printed RTR wagon) and producing the wagons in kit form in Ireland or the UK.

Unfortunately it was not practicable to manufacture (3D Print) the Brake in the UK at a realistic price point, the wagon would have had to retail at over £100 to cover UK production costs. I trailed 3D printing with an Irish manufacturing partner unfortunately they were unable to produce prints to a similar standard of quality to my current Far East supplier.

I am happy to supply 3D prints to special order direct to the customer from our Chinese factory subject to a minimal order quantity of 10 wagons (mixture of any type), prints supplied without wheels, couplings, weights or decals. Please PM on this board or info@jmdesignmr.co.nz if interested and I will prepare a quote.

I will continue to supply our etched kits and overlays to order from PPD on a similar basis.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2024 by Mayner

[Robert Shrives]

Hi

just to say thank you - the Brake van arrived on Saturday and now had a chance to look over and trundle up and down ! What a lovely model. The roof lightly clips on and off - to reveal a lovely interior with seats, stove and brake valve. Free running and of good weight  it feels a solid model.  Axles allow for 21 mm gauge with slots to allow brake block parts to move over.  I am sure fun could be had adding pull rods etc for full brake rigging - if you run model upside down! 

For unboxing enthuiasts model comes in a blue  carboard box with foam insert that holds model well There are foam inserts in cut out to protect sides - lift model in foam cradle out of box and remove top cover foam and then push through from lower side using insert to protect model - foam  is too good a fit to dig model out of foam - a prerequisite to survive the best global shipping.         

I will look into my stocks of spare handrails and fit as these are user source and applied items - easy to make and certainly worth adding. 

Colours lovely and muted and in a matt finish - I am sure the rust and rot experts will have a field day! 

Certainly a fitting (ed) end for any freight !   

Robert 

[cudf]

Just received the Brake van and likewise want to complement on the quality of the product, it really is superb ... and certainly was very well packaged!  I see a photo above from @Markleman showing the Kadee couplings, and just like to find out what type of Kadee and any advice on swopping them with the new coupling

[Markleman]

Yes, those are Kadees.

Most of the ones I use are the ones that fit into NEM boxes. That means you just have to pull out the tension lock coupling and push in the Kadee. There are four lengths, 16, 17, 18 and 19. It depends a bit on what radius curves you have but mostly I use 17s. For me the right one allows the wagons to propel over curves without the buffers locking. If you don't do much pushing back round tight curves that hardly matters.

They allow close coupling. Along with the magnetic uncouplers they allow realistic shunting. I only have them on the locos and wagons I am likely to shunt. Fixed rakes like liner trains and passenger sets I left the tension locks between the coaches and just have a Kadee on the end.

For older things without the NEM box I used an older Kadee which can be a pain to fit. I also have some adjustable fittings which glue under wagons etc. I used these under Dapol and Provincial Wagons until I realised that it was cheaper and easier to change the wagon underframes for newer Dapol ones with NEM sockets. Anyway, the flanges on some older Dapol wagons gave me problems so that made more sense that trying to cobble an old Kadee onto them.

But the main story is that the NEM socket type of Kadee are easy to fit - and if you use IRM, JMDesign or more recent Murphy stock they all come with NEM boxes in the right places. Expensive if you have a lot of stock though.

[cudf]

Thanks for that, appreciate the advice.  I have just started using them and for sure they allow for a much better experience in shunting operations.

[Mayner]

All pre-orders of RTR Brake Vans and Covered Wagons have now been delivered to customers in Ireland and the UK.

A special thanks to our customers for their support since I opened our on-line Store in July 2021.

Two unsold CIE 20T Brake Vans 23642 in brown with wheel logo and Two "1946" Covered Wagons in light grey with snail Logo remain in stock

If interested please order by 4th November when I will be closing our on-line store.

[Hickey]

Hi Mayner, Interested in  CIE 20T Brake Vans 23642 in brown with wheel logo but the website is not working at present to order. will try again later. Peter  

[StevieB]

Hi John

How much are the covered vans, please?

Stephen

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, StevieB said:

Hi John

How much are the covered vans, please?

Stephen

Hi Stephen

The Vans are £48 ea plus £19 shipping by international economy with tracking.

If your interested please PM and I will issue an invoice.

John

[Mayner]

6 hours ago, Hickey said:

Hi Mayner, Interested in  CIE 20T Brake Vans 23642 in brown with wheel logo but the website is not working at present to order. will try again later. Peter  

Please contact me at info@jmdesignmr.co.nz if you have problems placing an order on the website and I can issue an invoice. 

[Mayner]

I shipped the final orders of RTR wagons on Monday and closed the Shopify site, which should give me some time to catchup on my own incomplete modelling projects.

Over the past 4 years we have sold over 300 wagons, Brakes accounted for 38% of sales, Opens (Std Irish) 20%, CIE (Post 1946) Vans 25%, Pre-GS Vans & Grain Wagons each  approx 10%.

While sales of Brake Vans have been predominently rtr (98%) since the model was released in July 2021, sales of other wagons were evenly divided beteeen rtr and kits during 2021-22, before shifting to predominently rtr during 2023-24. 

Although wagon kits were listed as a stock item on the website during 2023, there were no enquiries or dales of kits, however the models sold out quickly when offered as rtr items in late 2023 at a higher price point.

Edited November 5, 2024 by Mayner

[Robert Shrives]

Hi 

FWIW I have fitted  No18 kaydees to my brake .  Still looking at handrails I hope to find a suitable spare part in stocks I have access to at work. My own stocks were just too short.

Robert 

[Mol_PMB]

I'm just detailing up my kit example, it's an excellent model but I decided to detail it with handrails, lamp irons, an extra strip at the base of the sides, and a finer chimney for the stove.

Now, I know these vans were built in several batches by the GSR and CIE, and there are detail differences between batches. But I'm trying to work out whether I should fit roof vents. This is the prototype I'm modelling, but the photo has a very messy background and it's hard to determine the roof details:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559

 

This is a GSR one and it clearly has 2 torpedo vents in the roof as well as the stove chimney (Ernie photo on Flickr):

This is also a GSR one and it clearly has 1 torpedo vent in the roof as well as the stove chimney (NLI photo on Flickr). The vent position appears to be similar to the image above, but only the vent further from the chimney is fitted, and it is oriented laterally rather than longitudinally:

This is an earlier CIE-built van seen later in life in 1974 and it clearly has 1 torpedo vent in the roof (same position as above) as well as the stove chimney (IRRS photo on Flickr):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570450936

Another 1970s photo, this time from Ernie, shows another early CIE-built van and it appears to have a pair of vents, same positions as in the first photo, but not the same type of vent:

Probably around 1970 photo, this from the IRRS archive, shows a later CIE-built van and I think we can just see the top of a pair of vents, same positions as in the first photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527285226

On the other hand, there are plenty of photos of vans which definitely have no roof vents, such as this from Brian Flannigan which is a GSR-built example:

Or indeed this in the IRRS Archive which is one of the later CIE batch:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509010781

 

Knowing how goods guards spent much of their life in a struggle to keep warm, and newspapers were an essential accessory to fold up and plug any draughts, I can't imagine that roof vents were seen as an advantage by the users of these vans. On the other hand, there would be some benefit of avoiding carbon monoxide poisoning from the stove.

Maybe the brake vans were all built with them but they were removed from most vans over time?

Has anyone got any more info on the roof vents?

 

There are of course a whole host of other detail differences between the vans, either from build or subsequent modification, but I won't get carried away with those now.

 

Cheers,

Mol

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I'm just detailing up my kit example, it's an excellent model but I decided to detail it with handrails, lamp irons, an extra strip at the base of the sides, and a finer chimney for the stove.

Now, I know these vans were built in several batches by the GSR and CIE, and there are detail differences between batches. But I'm trying to work out whether I should fit roof vents. This is the prototype I'm modelling, but the photo has a very messy background and it's hard to determine the roof details:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559

 

This is a GSR one and it clearly has 2 torpedo vents in the roof as well as the stove chimney (Ernie photo on Flickr):

This is also a GSR one and it clearly has 1 torpedo vent in the roof as well as the stove chimney (NLI photo on Flickr). The vent position appears to be similar to the image above, but only the vent further from the chimney is fitted, and it is oriented laterally rather than longitudinally:

This is an earlier CIE-built van seen later in life in 1974 and it clearly has 1 torpedo vent in the roof (same position as above) as well as the stove chimney (IRRS photo on Flickr):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570450936

Another 1970s photo, this time from Ernie, shows another early CIE-built van and it appears to have a pair of vents, same positions as in the first photo, but not the same type of vent:

Probably around 1970 photo, this from the IRRS archive, shows a later CIE-built van and I think we can just see the top of a pair of vents, same positions as in the first photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527285226

On the other hand, there are plenty of photos of vans which definitely have no roof vents, such as this from Brian Flannigan which is a GSR-built example:

Or indeed this in the IRRS Archive which is one of the later CIE batch:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509010781

 

Knowing how goods guards spent much of their life in a struggle to keep warm, and newspapers were an essential accessory to fold up and plug any draughts, I can't imagine that roof vents were seen as an advantage by the users of these vans. On the other hand, there would be some benefit of avoiding carbon monoxide poisoning from the stove.

Maybe the brake vans were all built with them but they were removed from most vans over time?

Has anyone got any more info on the roof vents?

 

There are of course a whole host of other detail differences between the vans, either from build or subsequent modification, but I won't get carried away with those now.

 

Cheers,

Mol

Very observant!!

Most had NO vents, but many had!

I’ve fairly reasonably established there was no hard rule.

Myself and the late, (great!) “Lambegman” of this world, aka Steve Rafferty from Lisburn were collaborating for many years on what we had planned to be a (big!) book on Irish wagons.

Like you, Steve had a major mental “database” of Irish non-passenger stock. 

I was working on pre-GSR stuff when he sadly passed away, and he was investigating BNCR, NCC & BCDR stuff. 

Unfortunately we never got to get this project anywhere close to completion.

Such is life, boys’n’girls….

[Mol_PMB]

Was there a standard interior colour scheme for these brake vans? With the nicely detailed handbrake, vacuum setter and stove I feel I ought to paint the inside, though to be honest it's not very visible from the outside.

The only interior photos I've found are on this page, which suggests a dark floor and pale walls and ceiling, red handbrake wheel on black column, heatproof panels behind the stove but perhaps also pale:

https://www.abandonedni.com/single-post/mind-the-gap

I'm idly wondering about an interior light too, which might also provide some illumination in the side lamps. Is it worth it? Probably not.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Was there a standard interior colour scheme for these brake vans? With the nicely detailed handbrake, vacuum setter and stove I feel I ought to paint the inside, though to be honest it's not very visible from the outside.

The only interior photos I've found are on this page, which suggests a dark floor and pale walls and ceiling, red handbrake wheel on black column, heatproof panels behind the stove but perhaps also pale:

https://www.abandonedni.com/single-post/mind-the-gap

I'm idly wondering about an interior light too, which might also provide some illumination in the side lamps. Is it worth it? Probably not.

Usually the interior had a mid brown from floor to waist level, and cream above that. I don’t recall any variants, but there could well have been.

The inside of the end verandas on ALL brake vans on all lines was the exterior body colour. 

Before anyone cites the fact that Whitehead's “Ivan” van has cream inside its balconies, that is wrong…..!

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Usually the interior had a mid brown from floor to waist level, and cream above that. I don’t recall any variants, but there could well have been.

The inside of the end verandas on ALL brake vans on all lines was the exterior body colour. 

Before anyone cites the fact that Whitehead's “Ivan” van has cream inside its balconies, that is wrong…..!

Wonderful, many thanks. I'll use that interior scheme which is much the same as used on British Rail goods brakes too. Must have been the practical choice!

My chosen prototype has some unusual features on the (grey) external livery though - the area above and below the ducket is grey rather than black, and the roundel is tan.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559

 

[Mol_PMB]

Detailing up this brake van is rather fun, it helps that it's a great model to start with.

Eventually I'd like a 30-tonner as well - IRM seem to keep ruling them out, which is a pity. Maybe they'll surprise us?

[flange lubricator]

Lovely job on the Van