"Voiding the Warranty" - Mol's experiments in 21mm gauge

[Northroader]

At one time I used the loft before it got a proper work over.  Problem is all the roof supports need air circulating round to avoid rot, so you have an opening round the eaves, and the loft reflects what’s happening outside. It ended up with just limited seasons where it was comfortable to work, in spring and autumn. Summer it was far too hot up there, likewise winter too cold. There was also the way soldered track joints could tear apart over a year due to the expansion. At last I got a proper conversion done, and it was a good room, liveable in. But the other trouble is the inward slope of the roof doesn’t allow much headroom over the layout unless you bring it closer to the middle. I ended up with a lot of microlayouts.

[Mol_PMB]

4 hours ago, Northroader said:

At one time I used the loft before it got a proper work over.  Problem is all the roof supports need air circulating round to avoid rot, so you have an opening round the eaves, and the loft reflects what’s happening outside. It ended up with just limited seasons where it was comfortable to work, in spring and autumn. Summer it was far too hot up there, likewise winter too cold. There was also the way soldered track joints could tear apart over a year due to the expansion. At last I got a proper conversion done, and it was a good room, liveable in. But the other trouble is the inward slope of the roof doesn’t allow much headroom over the layout unless you bring it closer to the middle. I ended up with a lot of microlayouts.

Many thanks - it's good to hear about your experiences as these were some of my concerns about the use of the loft space.

I do have one friend who has built a large and complex model railway in his loft, but he put a lot of work into insulating and fitting it out, including a velux window for summer ventilation. It's set fairly low down, ideal to operate and view from a seated position, which partly overcomes the headroom issue, and I would probably do the same. It's a lot of work before even starting to build the model railway! But it doesn't stop me planning...

 

[David Holman]

Planning is half the fun and I've scratched many itches that way, with 99% never making it off paper.

 I think you have to balance the time, effort as especially cost, against how much value you place on having such space. Our roof is too low pitched to be any use, but did eventually convert the integral garage into my workshop, by fitting double glazed, hinged doors, and adding a radiator from the central heating system, plus an access door from the porch inside the house.

 It has given me 16' of layout space down one side and work bench/storage on the other one and a half sides, using kitchen base units/worktops. The layout space gives room for two, one above the other and though they are only terminus-fiddle yard, they provide enough operation interest when the mood takes me. That said, I mainly build things and exhibit at shows, so though a continuous run would be nice, I doubt I would use it much.

[Mol_PMB]

I have been doing a bit of modelling as well as planning! The custom transfers I designed at the weekend have now arrived, so I've been lettering some wagons and a container:

The petunia-roofed Bell container and its roof lettering are based on the BREL Derby livery drawing for these. I've also printed another set of serial numbers so I can do a second one, once I've ordered it from Arran.

The grain hopper wagon lettering is a bit different to that supplied in the kit, but based on a photo.

The cattle wagon roof still isn't stuck down... because I've converted it to a fitted wagon I needed a different number and lettering from that supplied.

My transfer sheet will also do my NIR ex-GNR brake van, but I haven't applied those yet.

 

All of these now need weathering.

 

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I have been doing a bit of modelling as well as planning! The custom transfers I designed at the weekend have now arrived, so I've been lettering some wagons and a container:

The petunia-roofed Bell container and its roof lettering are based on the BREL Derby livery drawing for these. I've also printed another set of serial numbers so I can do a second one, once I've ordered it from Arran.

The grain hopper wagon lettering is a bit different to that supplied in the kit, but based on a photo.

The cattle wagon roof still isn't stuck down... because I've converted it to a fitted wagon I needed a different number and lettering from that supplied.

My transfer sheet will also do my NIR ex-GNR brake van, but I haven't applied those yet.

 

All of these now need weathering.

 

Interesting re the Bell containers.

While available models all (I think?) have white roofs, these appeared later on. Originally, they were mostly the dark blue. I don’t remember seeing a “petunia” roof myself, but quite possible.

[Mol_PMB]

8 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Interesting re the Bell containers.

While available models all (I think?) have white roofs, these appeared later on. Originally, they were mostly the dark blue. I don’t remember seeing a “petunia” roof myself, but quite possible.

The ones built in Derby had a base colour of petunia, with a blue panel each side. I'm glad you have raised the issue though because I had another look at the drawings and I realise there are a couple more white markings I need to put on the roof:

This 1983 photo from John Law on Flickr shows a variety of roof colours:

• 4 x 40' with blue roof
• 1 x 40' with white roof
• 4 x 20' with petunia roof
• 1 x 20' with blue roof (just visible in foreground)
• 1 x 20' with white roof, but this is one of the ones with no blue at all, just petunia on the sides and ends, like the second one in this 1986 photo by Adrian Nicholls on Flickr:

I agree that later on, white rooves predominated:

[jhb171achill]

10 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

The ones built in Derby had a base colour of petunia, with a blue panel each side. I'm glad you have raised the issue though because I had another look at the drawings and I realise there are a couple more white markings I need to put on the roof:

This 1983 photo from John Law on Flickr shows a variety of roof colours:

• 4 x 40' with blue roof
• 1 x 40' with white roof
• 4 x 20' with petunia roof
• 1 x 20' with blue roof (just visible in foreground)
• 1 x 20' with white roof, but this is one of the ones with no blue at all, just petunia on the sides and ends, like the second one in this 1986 photo by Adrian Nicholls on Flickr:

I agree that later on, white rooves predominated:

Yes. All or almost all navy blue at first. Petunia infiltrates quite soon, but remains minority.

White much later, but never replaced the other colours, thus an all-white-roofed train as in unlikely though not impossible.

[spudfan]

Clicked on this. Thought it might be in relation to your first date. Ooops!

[Mol_PMB]

This trio from @Mayner's kits are now very nearly complete, with the main weathering done based on prototype photos.

They may get a dusting of running dirt from the airbrush when the weather's a bit warmer, and I still need to do the glazing in the brake van.

It's funny how the phone camera 'sees' colours and contrasts a bit differently from the naked eye, and the colours also look different today from yesterday's sunlit photo.

When the IRM H vans turn up, they'll boost this train significantly. But I have plans to modify all of them to some extent. I'm trying to get my other wagon projects finished before the end of January!

Plans for the H vans include re-spacing the buffers on all of them, and then as follows:

1. Add extended buffers to represent a former green van, but in brown livery as 18848
2. Replace the underframe with a modified Parkside one, unfitted and with conventional solebars, in brown livery as 17194
3. Add strips across the roof, in brown livery as 18731
4. Modifed/replaced sides and extended buffers as H palvan, in grey livery as 18828
5. Modify the brakes to represent an unfitted 4-shoe brake setup, in grey livery as 17568
6. The last one can stay as bought apart from the buffers, maybe renumbered as 18675
7. Seven? Where did the other one come from? Well the underframe from 2 will be used as the basis of a 26000 series palvan using a Parkside body. It won't need the handbrake wheels which will be robbed to complete my fitted cattle wagon.

That'll keep me busy in February, and give me 7 vans, all different, to add to the CIE cattle, LMA, GSR grain and GNR cement vans I have already.

[Mol_PMB]

@jhb171achill jokes about the overly posh 'zebra' paint job on the RPSI's GNR brake van 'Ivan'. Well every time I look at my model of his sister 'Ivanka', I think I've finished, take a photo, and then realise that there are still a load of things I need to deal with. It's a slow burn this project, but I'm nearly there. 'Ivanka' is extremely disreputable compared to her brother, but in fine form to tail a Hunslet-hauled works train. She is based on this photo by Jonathan Allen: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49497154092

I am still hoping for some UTA spoil wagon kits to go with this van, the Hunslet and a couple of former Courtaulds opens.

 

Meanwhile, we have the beginnings of a liner train. Two of @leslie10646's 20' flat wagons of the 27101 series, and I've managed to get a few IRM bogie flats secondhand. The bogie flats will be modified to suit my needs in due course. I also have 3 brass kits of the 25436 series 20' flats in the works at present.

The container on the left is also one of Leslie's whereas the other orange one (not yet lettered) is a plain C-Rail one. All the containers need some / more weathering.

CIE did have some 'plain vanilla' 20' boxes without side doors or other fancy features - there's one here in my tatty old print at Ennis, stacked on top of something else. Possibly another one on the ground to its right. But as yet I haven't confirmed their number series or found a better photo than this:

 

[Mol_PMB]

A little light relief for a Sunday morning - another container.

This is based on a C=Rail unpainted 20' ribbed box, which I have altered to represent a CIE bulk grain container.

With a coat of orange paint and the CIE 'BULK FREIGHT' lettering on the side it should provide a bit of variety in the liner train.

[Horsetan]

On 11/1/2025 at 7:02 PM, Mol_PMB said:

.... 'Ivanka' is extremely disreputable...

I'm sure there'll be something along to, er, Trump that.

[Mol_PMB]

11 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

I'm sure there'll be something along to, er, Trump that.

I'm glad someone picked up on that reference!

[Horsetan]

12 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I'm glad someone picked up on that reference!

Believe me, it was going that way.

[Mol_PMB]

Whilst I still consider layout and track options, I've bought and installed a pair of cabinets for my Irish models.

They're not the expensive sort, but they'll do! It took a bit of care to get them perfectly aligned in all planes so that the glass panes can be slid through one to reach the other, but I have managed that despite the walls not being quite flat.

They are a very snug fit in the available space!

Enough space for 70 traditional wagons! But they'll soon fill up with longer things, and aren't efficient for displaying coaches as each shelf is 450mm long.

[Mol_PMB]

As I get older I find my memory isn't as good as it once was.

When I went out to the shed to find the tools for mounting the display cabinets, I reminded myself that I'd got this, that's been screwed to the wall out there for 15 years or more and I'd completely forgotten about it!

Well that's the identity sorted for a 121 class model! 131 was the first 121 class I travelled behind (or perhaps in front of - it was on the Limerick-Junction shuttle).

I should have used this to check the artwork for my custom transfers - I didn't get the ends of the 3 quite right. I'll have to do the 3s again again...

[Mol_PMB]

This evening I'm pottering in CorelDraw doing artwork for some early containers. More to do yet, I'm planning to do a range of CIE, B+I, BELL, Irish Ferryways.

These are intended for my own use but if anyone else might be interested in some of these please let me know.

I get them printed by Precision Decals using an ALPS printer on clear backing. A little more care is need in applying them compared to the Railtec transfers, but they can provide a very good result.

[Mol_PMB]

Having mostly been working in plastic recently, I've gone back to metal for my next 3 wagons. These are 25436 series container flats from an etch produced by John a few years back, which he kindly arranged to have another copy etched for me. The deal didn't include castings or instructions and I'm sure I'm not building them quite as intended! But the first one is coming together quite nicely now and hopefully I'll get the other two caught up with it tomorrow. I've been trying some options of axleboxes and springs: I've got a nice solution for the roller bearing variant, and I think I can adapt the spare plain bearing axleboxes left over from my GNR brake van kit. I plan to build two with roller bearings and one with plain bearings.

Now that I've acquired some IRM 42' bogie flats, I'm not quite so desparate for ISO container carrying wagons, so I might load one of these with a pre-ISO container, chained down and with the stakes deployed. The other two will probably be equipped to carry ISO containers or 20' swapbodies.

I must go digging through the older parts of the forum and see if @Mayner has any other interesting etched kits in the portfolio that might still be available on a similar basis? 

[Mayner]

On 18/1/2025 at 3:21 PM, Mol_PMB said:

I must go digging through the older parts of the forum and see if @Mayner has any other interesting etched kits in the portfolio that might still be available on a similar basis? 

 

Trialed an etched 22'6" flat in 2012, similar fold up assembly to 20' flat.                                                                  

 

Edited Monday at 04:24 by Mayner

[Mol_PMB]

4 hours ago, Mayner said:

 

Trialed an etched 22'6" flat in 2012, similar fold up assembly to 20' flat.                                                                  

 

That looks appealing, and one of the wagons that's definitely on my wants list. How many come on an etch?

Cheers,

Paul

[Horsetan]

33 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

That looks appealing, and one of the wagons that's definitely on my wants list. How many come on an etch?

If there's any left over, I might be interested in one or two if that makes things easier....

[Mayner]

One wagon per fret due to the orientation of the sheet. The photo engraver charges a flat rate per sheet and a min charge of £9 for UK shipping.

There is also a version with Bill Bedford style springing which did not reach the prototype/test etch stage http://www.clag.org.uk/bb-w-irons.html .

I will check pricing next week as its over 10 years since I prepared the initial test etch.

[Horsetan]

5 hours ago, Mayner said:

....There is also a version with Bill Bedford style springing which did not reach the prototype/test etch stage http://www.clag.org.uk/bb-w-irons.html ....

It occurs to me that it could still be sprung using the Dave Bradwell spring carriers.

[Mol_PMB]

5 hours ago, Mayner said:

One wagon per fret due to the orientation of the sheet. The photo engraver charges a flat rate per sheet and a min charge of £9 for UK shipping.

There is also a version with Bill Bedford style springing which did not reach the prototype/test etch stage http://www.clag.org.uk/bb-w-irons.html .

I will check pricing next week as its over 10 years since I prepared the initial test etch.

Many thanks John, that looks good. No rush, I've got plenty of projects on the go already, but I am definitely interested in some of these.