3d printed 5ft 3 in track

[Rob R]

A little taster:-

Early days yet, 25mm gauge for S Scale (1:64).

Elegoo Neptune 4 Pro, Elegoo PLA filament, 0.4mm nozzle

Peco code 75 rail

Wagon by Paul Greene

Rob

Edited December 11, 2024 by Rob R
Wagon credit

[Weshty]

That's a very cool implementation of 3d printing.   Coming up on 17 years since I bought the SSM range from Paul.   A complete gentleman.

[Galteemore]

Track looks so right. Excellent 

[Horsetan]

Pointwork will be the challenge 

[Rob R]

Fortunately Paul has most of the pointwork for Broombridge already, recycled from Kilbrandon I believe.

For new work, copperclad or spiked to ply sleepers would be easiest until the guys at Templot come up with something.

R

[David Holman]

Such a lovely scale. S is actually 1:64, so 5'3 works out as a rather splendid 63/64ths of an inch, which in metric is 25.003mm.

 I won't tell if you dont!

[Rob R]

6 minutes ago, David Holman said:

Such a lovely scale. S is actually 1:64, so 5'3 works out as a rather splendid 63/64ths of an inch, which in metric is 25.003mm.

 I won't tell if you dont!

Yes, but at what temperature?

The prints are actually coming out at 25.1mm at the moment but that should allow for the natural tendency for flexitrack to reduce in gauge a little when bent.

If it proves to be an issue in testing it is easy enough to tweak.

When I get the odd 25 hour day/ 8 day week I'll take a look at 4mm and 7 mm and if possible post the .stl files on here for all.

Rob

Edited December 11, 2024 by Rob R

[David Holman]

All power to your elbows good sir!

[murrayec]

KMCE had mastered 3d printed pointwork but sadly is not with us anymore.....

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7108-kmces-workbench/page/10/#elControls_221856_menu

He did give info on his track making in some of his threads like above

Eoin

[Rob R]

Thank you. I will study them later this evening.

R

[Sea Breezer]

1 hour ago, murrayec said:

KMCE had mastered 3d printed pointwork but sadly is not with us anymore.....

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7108-kmces-workbench/page/10/#elControls_221856_menu

He did give info on his track making in some of his threads like above

Eoin

His DSER rolling stock was fantastic too. Really professional stuff. 

[Broadstone]

This looks to be a real game changer from Rob as it is so difficult to realistically model spiked flat bottom track in a reasonable time. The bullhead boys are very lucky with plastic chairs produced in all the main scales (including S) to match proper rail and be fixed to wood or plastic sleepers. But for flat bottom, most people either solder flat bottom rail to copperclad sleepers or glue it to wooden sleepers, or perhaps a combination of both. But then there's the spikes! On my old layout I tried adding bent staples or bits of wire and decided that they looked a bit naff for a lot of work (4 holes and 4 bits of wire per sleeper). In the end I decided it probably wasn't worth it and was in any case a potential threat to my sanity with a big layout. 

Rob has sent me a batch of these 3D printed plastic bases and they look really good. Sleepers 1mm thick to match my copper-clad track, good to gauge and fine 'spikes' that look the part and strongly grip the rail. After Christmas I am going to construct a length of track on my, very slowly evolving, Broomebridge Junction layout and properly test them out. I'm not anticipating any problems to be honest and know I'm going to have a length of really good looking and robust track, complete with Spikes! I'll report back in due course on this thread. 

Thanks Rob. The downside will be that I'll want loads more! I think it's getting high time I brought my own printer and mastered these dark arts. 

 

 

On 11/12/2024 at 7:21 PM, David Holman said:

Such a lovely scale. S is actually 1:64, so 5'3 works out as a rather splendid 63/64ths of an inch, which in metric is 25.003mm.

 I won't tell if you dont!

I admit that I work to 25mm in S David! What's 0.003mm between friends?

[jhb171achill]

8 minutes ago, Broadstone said:

 What's 0.003mm between friends?

It’s a ten-millionth of a cubit!

 

[Killian Keane]

On 11/12/2024 at 7:31 PM, murrayec said:

KMCE had mastered 3d printed pointwork but sadly is not with us anymore.....

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7108-kmces-workbench/page/10/#elControls_221856_menu

He did give info on his track making in some of his threads like above

Eoin

I hadnt heard about his passing until now, awful shock, great loss to the hobby as he was a master of the craft

[Broadstone]

I have now managed to construct a yard length of track on my layout Broomebridge Junction using Rob's 3D printed track bases and Peco Code 75 rail. I picked a section of track on a 4' radius curve and as the photos show, it looks great. I took my time and learned on the job, but I like that aspect of modelling. I'm really pleased with it and think it looks the part from every angle and is the closest I've come to getting that Irish Broad Gauge spiked FB look - hitherto all my track has lacked spikes and has looked a bit 'naked'! 

I picked the Liffey Branch from Liffey Junction which in my Broomebridge Junction layout is single track because I dont have the width for the full double track. As I have said it is 4' radius  as this an oval continuous run layout. 

First of all I test glued a length of Rob's sleeper base on the cork using Gorilla woodwork glue and left it overnight. Success, it was glued solid.

Secondly I then got enough bases and cut the webs on one side and threaded a yard length of Code 75 rail through before curving and then glueing it down on the cork underlay. Then I weighted it down overnight with loads of tool steel to hold it while it set. I checked the curve against a 4'radius curve I have and made a few adjustments before the glue set.

Thirdly, next day I removed the weights then threaded the second rail through. This took some time because the spikes really do hold the rail which is what you want really! 

Fourthly, I ran some stock up and down and found that at 25.1mm gauge it was a bit tight because you need some gauge widening. I therefore very carefully used a 25.3mm gauge and my soldering iron on a low heat to heat the rail and very gently shift the outer rail outwards by 0.2mm or until the gauge dropped between the rails. 

Success, all my stock moves through the curve successfully. And the track looks great. Excuse the layout building chaos btw!

In future I'll probably thread both rails through before glueing down what would be in effect a length of flexi track. It would also make it easier to curve. 

These bases are great and the track, even before painting and ballasting, looks really great. Thanks Rob, this a definite game-changer. My problem now is to make sure my pointwork looks as good!

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

That looks super! The equivalent in 4mm scale would be extremely useful too.

[David Holman]

As tends to be the case with most things S gauge, it has a very classy look and you are entitled to be chuffed. If I was starting again (and knowing what I know now), S would be very tempting. An elegant combination of big enough, but not needing the space of 7mm scale with no temptation to buy the latest rtr models because there aren't any!

 A metric track gauge makes sense, but my nerdy brain just had to look it up in imperial. Answer = three thou short of an inch!

[Rob R]

David,

15 thou short of an inch. 63/64".

I will be playing with some 7mm track eventually for peco code 100 and 21mm gauge for 4mm and 7mm 3ft.

R

 

[Rob R]

Question for the 7mm/21mm gauge modellers. What size rail do you use and what size/spacing sleepers?

Cheers

[Horsetan]

On 11/12/2024 at 7:31 PM, murrayec said:

KMCE had mastered 3d printed pointwork but sadly is not with us anymore.....

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7108-kmces-workbench/page/10/#elControls_221856_menu

There's also 3D-printed "PlugTrack" which Martyn Wynne (creator of Templot) and others have been working on for a while. 

[Broadstone]

2 hours ago, Horsetan said:

There's also 3D-printed "PlugTrack" which Martyn Wynne (creator of Templot) and others have been working on for a while. 

The Templot plug track is excellent. I think its just for bullhead track though, not spiked flat bottom?

[Horsetan]

3 hours ago, Broadstone said:

The Templot plug track is excellent. I think its just for bullhead track though, not spiked flat bottom?

It is, but there could be allowance for FB rail in future developments. Who knows?

[Mol_PMB]

The Templot track is based on a chair that plugs into a rectangular slot in the sleeper. In reality the chair is quite a substantial casting and this gives it strength in its own right in model form, so it can be a separate component.

With spiked flat bottom rail there isn't any form of chair, and often no baseplate (at the most, a small thin one). It would be more difficult to create a robust rail fastening as a separate component to represent the spikes without it becoming too heavy and visually intrusive.

My experiment in 4mm scale used laser-cut sleeper bases with spike holes pre-'drilled' with the laser, and Peco track pins as the spikes. They're still a bit heavy though, but not too bad from normal viewing distance once weathered in a bit:

My method is also very time-consuming to lay as it needs hundreds of pins, so I'm interested to see how the 3D printed versions work out. I might decide I ought to be using bullhead track anyway, it depends on which prototype I end up going for.

Mol

 

 

[David Holman]

My three thou of an inch calculation was for Paul's 25.3mms gauge widening. Three fifths of five eighths of not very much? Well, as Paul has already said, it can make a difference - even in ordinary fine scale - and S is more than just that. The track on Fintonagh/Swillybegs is 21mm gauge, code 83 rail, with 1mm flangeways in the point crossings. The back to back on the wheels is set to 19.2mm and have found that anything more than 0.1mm out can cause problems.

 On 36.75mm, using Code 100 fb rail, it is surprising what you can get away with on plain track with gentle curves - even a full millimetre too wide does not cause derailment! That said, as already documented on Northport Quay, a six foot radius reverse curve certainly caused issues with AJ couplings, something that adding checkrails is yet to fully cure. The P4/S7 folk's quest for true fidelity certainly has merit, but of course comes with other challenges.

 As for flat bottom rail fixings, on Belmullet, I briefly experimented with trying to replicate them. First track pins. Way too tedious for me. Same with small bits of microstrip. Ditto. Then tried tiny blobs of pva, which were then painted with rust colour. Another form of torture! The best I could come up with was adding blobs of thick acrylic paint, which gave a hint of texture and an all important variety of colour from both rail and sleepers. There are pictures somewhere on the Belmullet thread and it looks ok.

 Why go to all this trouble? When it is not there, the eyes don't really register the omission in the overall scene, but once it is, you suddenly realise that small, extra dimension genuinely enhances things. No plans to do anything to my track at the moment, but these 3D prints look fab, so well done all those who are pushing the boundaries.

[Broadstone]

17 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

The Templot track is based on a chair that plugs into a rectangular slot in the sleeper. In reality the chair is quite a substantial casting and this gives it strength in its own right in model form, so it can be a separate component.

With spiked flat bottom rail there isn't any form of chair, and often no baseplate (at the most, a small thin one). It would be more difficult to create a robust rail fastening as a separate component to represent the spikes without it becoming too heavy and visually intrusive.

My experiment in 4mm scale used laser-cut sleeper bases with spike holes pre-'drilled' with the laser, and Peco track pins as the spikes. They're still a bit heavy though, but not too bad from normal viewing distance once weathered in a bit:

My method is also very time-consuming to lay as it needs hundreds of pins, so I'm interested to see how the 3D printed versions work out. I might decide I ought to be using bullhead track anyway, it depends on which prototype I end up going for.

Mol

 

 

Superb modelling by the way Mol!

[Broadstone]

1 hour ago, David Holman said:

My three thou of an inch calculation was for Paul's 25.3mms gauge widening. Three fifths of five eighths of not very much? Well, as Paul has already said, it can make a difference - even in ordinary fine scale - and S is more than just that. The track on Fintonagh/Swillybegs is 21mm gauge, code 83 rail, with 1mm flangeways in the point crossings. The back to back on the wheels is set to 19.2mm and have found that anything more than 0.1mm out can cause problems.

 On 36.75mm, using Code 100 fb rail, it is surprising what you can get away with on plain track with gentle curves - even a full millimetre too wide does not cause derailment! That said, as already documented on Northport Quay, a six foot radius reverse curve certainly caused issues with AJ couplings, something that adding checkrails is yet to fully cure. The P4/S7 folk's quest for true fidelity certainly has merit, but of course comes with other challenges.

 As for flat bottom rail fixings, on Belmullet, I briefly experimented with trying to replicate them. First track pins. Way too tedious for me. Same with small bits of microstrip. Ditto. Then tried tiny blobs of pva, which were then painted with rust colour. Another form of torture! The best I could come up with was adding blobs of thick acrylic paint, which gave a hint of texture and an all important variety of colour from both rail and sleepers. There are pictures somewhere on the Belmullet thread and it looks ok.

 Why go to all this trouble? When it is not there, the eyes don't really register the omission in the overall scene, but once it is, you suddenly realise that small, extra dimension genuinely enhances things. No plans to do anything to my track at the moment, but these 3D prints look fab, so well done all those who are pushing the boundaries.

That's a good point David about the spikes. I tried putting them in and found it too onerous and am not sure they were missed, mainly because people focus on the trains and scenery? But Rob's bases are a big step forward and the track looks good and is very strong as a 'monocoque' over a length as opposed to a single sleeper. 

I must look again at Northport Quay and your use of AJs! I'm considering them.

[Mayner]

For much of the 20th century the majority of traditional jointed flatbottom track used on Irish main and secondary lines was laid on cast iron baseplated and fixed with fang-bolts (bolt with a large integral washer) to timber sleepers rather than with spikes.

Photo from Kiltimagh on the Burma Road, though same baseplate and fixing detail used on the majority of lines laid with FB rail on the CIE system though rail section and baseplate size may vary. e.g 85Lb & 90Lb rail shared the same foot & baseplate width, 95Lb used onmore heavily trafficed lines had a wider foot & baseplate width.

A 3D printed track system with a integral baseplate would assist in gauging the track, possibly with a trackpin as 'spike", interestingly American modellers where handlaid track still remains popular spike every 5th tie/sleeper.

 

[David Holman]

Really useful detailing for something I'd not really looked at, with my track being rail soldered to commercial sleepers. The baseplates wouldn't be hard to fabricate, using microstrip, but the fangbolts really stand out and look tricky to do as individual add ons.

 How easy would it be to 3D print them as cosmetic additions (one for each side of the rail)? Northport Quay would need about 500...