UTA Green Locos

[GSWR 90]

Following on from another thread about locos that CIÉ painted green, here’s one about locos that UTA painted green.

Generally when the UTA repainted locos, they painted them black. There were some exceptions – apparently a Jeep, a W, and a U2 painted in experimental apple green, Brunswick green, and olive green

 

This Jeep, No. 5, is apparently painted in “apple green”. You can clearly see that the lining is very bright and the tanks, cab, wheels, and boiler are much brighter than the black smokebox and chimbley

This W, 98, is apparently painted a darker Brunswick green

This BCDR loco, No. 21, is apparently pictured after overhaul in 1953 – it seems to be in kind of an olive green, and to me that doesn’t look like BCDR lining as it’s more white/green than yellow, especially compared to the yellow numbers. An experimental livery…?

Edited December 4 by GSWR 90

[Dunluce Castle]

I think a Jeep modelled in the experimental green livery would be very interesting to see. 
 

This was my model done a few years ago, with U2 class number 80 “Dunseverick Castle”, in dark olive green. 

[jhb171achill]

55 minutes ago, Dunluce Castle said:

This was my model done a few years ago, with U2 class number 80 “Dunseverick Castle”, in dark olive green. 

Great job, Nelson (as always!)

I am not sure whether this loco, in this livery had red connecting rods, though this became a UTA standard with their lined black livery, I'd need to check. But a superb job nonetheless!

6 hours ago, GSWR 90 said:

Following on from another thread about locos that CIÉ painted green, here’s one about locos that UTA painted green.

Generally when the UTA repainted locos, they painted them black. There were some exceptions – apparently a Jeep, a W, and a U2 painted in experimental apple green, Brunswick green, and olive green

This Jeep, No. 5, is apparently painted in “apple green”. You can clearly see that the lining is very bright and the tanks, cab, wheels, and boiler are much brighter than the black smokebox and chimbley

This W, 98, is apparently painted a darker Brunswick green

This BCDR loco, No. 21, is apparently pictured after overhaul in 1953 – it seems to be in kind of an olive green, and to me that doesn’t look like BCDR lining as it’s more white/green than yellow, especially compared to the yellow numbers. An experimental livery…?

That's BCDR green. The green carried by 30 in Cultra is co9mpletely wrong - it should look this colour. I think the lining was cream or pale yellow. It's still in BCDR livery, but has a new UTA plate. It nis possible, or even loikely, that the UTA's experimental dark shade was something broadlky similar to this, though the picture here shows it looking more "olivey" than it was.

 

Edited December 5 by jhb171achill

[Tullygrainey]

It's often said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So is colour I would say. I've had surgery to one eye (to fix a macular hole) with the result that I have slightly different colour vision in each eye. The operated eye sees things cooler than the other one. So where does that leave me when it comes to assessing colour?  

[jhb171achill]

On 5/12/2025 at 11:23 AM, Tullygrainey said:

It's often said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So is colour I would say. I've had surgery to one eye (to fix a macular hole) with the result that I have slightly different colour vision in each eye. The operated eye sees things cooler than the other one. So where does that leave me when it comes to assessing colour?  

Not being funny it is probably best - if genuine accuracy is required - to engage the advice of a college with good colour memory… 

[Westcorkrailway]

I had no idea the UTA tried Green on there locomotives. The Lined black is smart, but I’m sure the Green would have been nice too. Shame no colour photos seem to survive? 

[jhb171achill]

13 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I had no idea the UTA tried Green on there locomotives. The Lined black is smart, but I’m sure the Green would have been nice too. Shame no colour photos seem to survive? 

There is a photo of tjhe W class, I think in the likes of the Colour-Rail archive. The colour rendition, due to time, is very poor, so not to be relied on for colour matching, but it gives an idea. I have a notion theres one of the 4.4.0 too, but not the Jeep (that I am aware of).

[Galteemore]

8 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

There is a photo of tjhe W class, I think in the likes of the Colour-Rail archive. The colour rendition, due to time, is very poor, so not to be relied on for colour matching, but it gives an idea. I have a notion theres one of the 4.4.0 too, but not the Jeep (that I am aware of).

IIRC they found traces of green when rebuilding 4 - think was on a wheel off another WT. I also have a dim idea that Mac Arnold had suggested painting 4 maroon in the 70s to keep the NCC glory alive! We’d be horrified at such a notion now but have to remember Mac’s generation had seen two decades of steam becoming increasingly dowdy. A number of GB groups also presented weird and wonderful liveries around this time …..anyone remember the Caledonian blue Fairbairn tank ?

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, Galteemore said:

IIRC they found traces of green when rebuilding 4 - think was on a wheel off another WT. I also have a dim idea that Mac Arnold had suggested painting 4 maroon in the 70s to keep the NCC glory alive! We’d be horrified at such a notion now but have to remember Mac’s generation had seen two decades of steam becoming increasingly dowdy. A number of GB groups also presented weird and wonderful liveries around this time …..anyone remember the Caledonian blue Fairbairn tank ?

Imagine number 4 like that but a slightly lighter shade of blue and different letters on the side. Doubt it would go down well at Whitehead though... 

[Westcorkrailway]

5 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

IIRC they found traces of green when rebuilding 4 - think was on a wheel off another WT. I also have a dim idea that Mac Arnold had suggested painting 4 maroon in the 70s to keep the NCC glory alive! We’d be horrified at such a notion now but have to remember Mac’s generation had seen two decades of steam becoming increasingly dowdy. A number of GB groups also presented weird and wonderful liveries around this time …..anyone remember the Caledonian blue Fairbairn tank ?

There are purists that would still be angry. But I think this generation is more forgiving of funky livery stuff. Look at all those fictional livery models coming out soon

like personally I loved 184 in CIE green, would love to see the Jeep in this experimental apple green NCC or 131 in GNR green. 

[Mol_PMB]

184 seems to have had numerous paint jobs in green, I think these are mostly in chronological order...

(photos from IRRS, Roger Joanes, Ernie, Jonathan Allen and hgricer, all linked from Flickr)

CJG_GSWR_184_Goresbridge_9_July_1960 | [Photographer: Chris … | Flickr

JPS_GSWR_184_Broadstone_18_Sept_1960 (4) | [Photographer: Jo… | Flickr

PoB_GSWR_184_Inchicore_l1960s | [Photographer: Paddy O’Brien… | Flickr

 

[Galteemore]

24 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

184 seems to have had numerous paint jobs in green, I think these are mostly in chronological order...

(photos from IRRS, Roger Joanes, Ernie, Jonathan Allen and hgricer, all linked from Flickr)

CJG_GSWR_184_Goresbridge_9_July_1960 | [Photographer: Chris … | Flickr

JPS_GSWR_184_Broadstone_18_Sept_1960 (4) | [Photographer: Jo… | Flickr

PoB_GSWR_184_Inchicore_l1960s | [Photographer: Paddy O’Brien… | Flickr

 

Three and four were movie contracts. The last one was painted in the style Drew Donaldson adopted for all of his locos! The turntable pic is Bray in pre Dart days. I think that’s the remnants of the ‘First Great Train Robbery’ stock in the background. This lingered on a siding at Bray until swept away by DART works c1981.

Edited Monday at 14:49 by Galteemore

[cheesy_peas]

Was the first CIE/pre RPSI iteration of 184 in lined green with cast numberplate an early example of painting a loco in "heritage livery" before that phrase was coined?

I note that 90 was similarly treated around the same time, prior to being sited at Fermoy, afterwards "stuffed and mounted" at Mallow.

Edited Monday at 15:16 by cheesy_peas

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, cheesy_peas said:

Was the first CIE/pre RPSI iteration of 184 in lined green with cast numberplate an early example of painting a loco in "heritage livery" before that phrase was coined?

I note that 90 was similarly treated around the same time, prior to being sited at Fermoy, afterwards "stuffed and mounted" at Mallow.

Yes, it was, by CIE; only they got the shade of green entirely wrong…..!

In its current form, 184 has only one authentic livery other than this short-lived one - plain grey.

[Westcorkrailway]

 
184 the day I visited whitehead a few months ago, boiler cladding being re-applied. 

[Westcorkrailway]

On 8/12/2025 at 3:15 PM, cheesy_peas said:

 

I note that 90 was similarly treated around the same time, prior to being sited at Fermoy, afterwards "stuffed and mounted" at Mallow.

Yes 90 appears to have had many fictional liveries 

GSWR (current) 

GSWR black lined (potentially)

GSR Grey 

CIE black (jury still out on this) 

Fermoy it had a fictional lined green 

It seems to have been painted at some stage in mallow as I’m not entirely sure it’s the same green 

it was then painted black by Westrail 

it went into a different fictional green again for inchicore 175 

 

[jhb171achill]

In 90's current state, it was never in any GSWR livery other than plain grey, as when it was rebuilt the lined black was displaced by austerity grey.

But in its earlier iterations, the following.

1. As built: the way it is at Downpatrick. Dark olive greeen with light blue, red and yellow linibng. As Castleisland Railway No. 1,  it is unkinown what sort of numberplate it had, but once into GSWR ownership, a standard Inchicore one with black background.

2. By the 1880s, same dark olive green but with black and cream lining. It is possible it carried lining only in cream at some stage.

3. After 1901, black lined in red. Numberplate background changed from black to red.

4. After 1915 or so, plain dark grey, including numberplate, which earliest photos of this appear to show just completely painted over.

5. Mid to late 1950s with numberplates removed and painted pale yellow number.

6. Last year or 18 months or so in traffic: appears to be repainted black with same pale yellow number. As you say, jury's out on the black.

Personally, I tend not to count liveries applied to locos after being out of use, e.g. as ornaments (Fermoy and Mallow, both of which were completely makey-up livery, as was the hideous, gaudy Isle of Man-esque bright green they painted it up in for the 1996 Inchicore Open Day; or in preservation if unauthentic.

Good to see DCDR going back to basics with it!

It might be added that the three RPSI locos of CIE / GSR origin - 461, 184 and 186, never carried anything buit plain grey in their current state, though 461 may have been black for a short time before withdrawal. In RPSI operation, all three have carried incorrect black liveries, but 186 is now displayed in correct grey; whereas 184 and 461 both spent periods in CIE lined passenger green just to see what it looked like. 461 still carries this - personally i thought it looked quite well, though the green is not right, and had it carried green it would have had a pale green painted number, not a red numberplate....  A trusted volunteer friend tells me that they are cosmetically doing up 184 in the "enthusiast rail tour" livery that CIE put on it about 1960 while stuill in service - an unusual one-off.

[GSWR 90]

4 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 
184 the day I visited whitehead a few months ago, boiler cladding being re-applied. 

184 will look great when finished. The paint on it is based on a swatch taken from No. 90, which is in turn based on a swatch taken from a model in the Science Museum in London that has original GSWR paint. Always nice to see some inter-society cooperation!

We are almost at the point where every 5'3" Irish steam loco will be in restored condition apart from Lough Erne

 

Edited yesterday at 18:09 by GSWR 90

[Galteemore]

20 minutes ago, GSWR 90 said:

184 will look great when finished. The paint on it is based on a swatch taken from No. 90, which is in turn based on a swatch taken from a model in the Science Museum in London that has original GSWR paint. Always nice to see some inter-society cooperation!

We are almost at the point where every 5'3" Irish steam loco will be in restored condition apart from Lough Erne

 

Which is deeply ironic given that Lough Erne is of immense historic value as the last standard gauge steam locomotive built for an Irish railway. 105 doesn’t count !27’s tragedy was that it was always too big or too small for what the RPSI needed. It will almost certainly never run again and should be in Cultra but it’s in such a state now that even cosmetic restoration would be horribly expensive. 

Edited yesterday at 18:31 by Galteemore

[Mol_PMB]

A photo I took on my first visit to Whitehead. It’s not a prize-winning composition but it’s interesting to compare the two locos which have many features of size and appearance in common. The boilers in particular. 

I’ve had some super trips behind 186 since then, but 27 has only moved a few hundred yards in all that time.

 

(neither are UTA green, I’m afraid, so well off topic! I think both worked for UTA in black though)

[Galteemore]

12 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

A photo I took on my first visit to Whitehead. It’s not a prize-winning composition but it’s interesting to compare the two locos which have many features of size and appearance in common. The boilers in particular. 

I’ve had some super trips behind 186 since then, but 27 has only moved a few hundred yards in all that time.

 

(neither are UTA green, I’m afraid, so well off topic! I think both worked for UTA in black though)

186 worked for NIR in black - with various red bits. It was actually SLNCR livery ! 27 spent much of her UT career looking very dowdy in faded SLNC colours. Around 1965 she got the full UT livery makeover and looked very splendid ! 

[jhb171achill]

But that was RPSI livery. It arrived in Whitehead in badly weathered dark grey. The red appendages and black paint are pure NCC / UTA culture! The story was that those in charge of such matters at Whitehead simply didn't like the grey livery.....

Edited yesterday at 19:21 by jhb171achill

[Galteemore]

12 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

But that was RPSI livery. It arrived in Whitehead in badly weathered dark grey. The red appendages and black paint are pure NCC / UTA culture! The story was that those in charge of such matters at Whitehead simply didn't like the grey livery.....

it’s really important to remember that 186 arrived on a railway where daily steam was still a reality - in a filthy and degraded state. I have a lot of sympathy with the York Road crews who decided this was an engine they could make a fuss of! 

[jhb171achill]

1 minute ago, Galteemore said:

it’s really important to remember that 186 arrived on a railway where daily steam was still a reality - in a filthy and degraded state. I have a lot of sympathy with the York Road crews who decided this was an engine they could make a fuss of! 

Which is probably why the Society gave her a lick of paint fairly pronto!

[Galteemore]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

Which is probably why the Society gave her a lick of paint fairly pronto!

Same with Guinness engine. Galteemore snr snr supplied the paint for that ! 

[Patrick Davey]

Interesting discussion folks!

@Dunluce Castle Nelson your green 'Dunseverick Castle' is a masterpiece sir!