GSWR 50' open gangwayed coaches

[Mol_PMB]

I recently became interested in the GSWR bogie coaches and thought I would record my research in another diatribe on the forum in case anyone else is interested.

I've built a few of the SSM kits for GSWR 6-wheelers recently, including having some custom etches made so that I could model additional types not available from SSM. 

I also recently bought a set of GSWR carriage drawings from the IRRS, much more detailed than the carriage diagrams I had previously. The drawings which survived into the IRRS archives and have been scanned have excellent coverage of the earlier bogie coaches - but there's very little on the 6-wheelers or the later 57' or elliptical-roofed vehicles.

So I've been wondering about a candidate for a model GSWR bogie passenger coach, based on a custom etch. The selection criteria I've set are as follows:

• Must have body and underframe drawings in the IRRS drawing set
• Arc roof (much easier to build than a clerestory)
• Reasonably numerous type (not just 1 or 2 built)
• At least one which survived in service into the mid-1960s

The coach types meeting all these criteria were:

• Dia 16 45' compartment lavatory composite (4 vehicles, no.458 withdrawn in 1964 but all others gone by 1960)
• Dia 34 45' open gangwayed lavatory third (6 vehicles, no.562 withdrawn in 1964 but all others gone by 1960)
• Dia 36 45' 8-compartment third (11 vehicles, no.845 withdrawn in 1971 but all others gone by 1962)
• Dia 37 47' 8-compartment third (5 vehicles, 3 surviving to 1968-71)
• Dia 31 50' 4-compartment brake third (6 vehicles, 1092 / 1095 withdrawn in 1968 but all others gone by 1960)
• Dia 43 50' open gangwayed third (10 vehicles, 7 surviving to 1963-5)

When I started searching for photos of these types, a clear favourite emerged - the 50' open gangwayed third. There was a good selection of photos of the prototype available, and many of them were in the Cork area (my modelling preferences are Cork/Kerry). Most of the late-surviving compartment types were on the Dublin suburban services. But another factor really swung the balance, 836 of this class is beautifully preserved in working order at Downpatrick:

So in this thread I'll pull together some information on this type of coach and its close relatives, and perhaps that will lead to a custom etch and a model.

[Mol_PMB]

These open gangwayed thirds were built in 1902 by Ashbury. They were part of a larger order which included other coaches in similar style.

If you are lucky enough to have travelled in 836 at the DCDR (highly recommended), its open interior with 2+2 seating arranged in bays either side of a central aisle will feel similar to a modern train. But 124 years ago, this open layout was quite novel - the vast majority of coaches were of compartment layout, some with a connecting side corridor but most without. For a while around 1900, the GSWR seems to have favoured the open layout for long-distance trains, but later reverted to compartment stock.

A brief history of these coaches can be gleaned from various GSWR and CIE carriage diagram and register documents, and what I've found is summarised below.

The drawing in the IRRS archive has a hand-written annotation listing 12 numbers - 833 to 844 inclusive. However, the GSWR carriage diagrams book prepared by Transport Research Associates in the 1970s and representing the fleet as it was in 1924 lists only 10 vehicles of this type - 834 to 843. None of the other CIE documents I've studied mention 833 or 844.

 

834: Remained basically unchanged throughout its life. Listed with the nominal 72 seats in 1946 and 1953 registers. Withdrawn 1959.

835: Listed with the nominal 72 seats in 1946 and 1953 registers, demoted to secondary stock by 1961 when it is shown with 64 seats and 2 lavatories, fitted for Radio Train. Withdrawn 1964 and converted to departmental stock 540A. 

836: Listed with the nominal 72 seats in 1946 and 1953 registers, demoted to secondary stock by 1961 when it is shown with 64 seats and 2 lavatories, fitted for Radio Train. Withdrawn 1963 and converted to departmental stock 463A. Sold to DCDR in the 1980s - restored and still in use.

837: Listed with the nominal 72 seats in 1946 and 1953 registers. Withdrawn 1960 and converted to camping coach no.8. Later transferred to departmental stock 530A. Survived at Waterford until 2002, then sold to RPSI and now at Whitehead under restoration.

838: Major rebuild in 1924 when it gained a high elliptical roof and electric lighting. Converted to 3rd class Tea Car at unknown date, listed with 58 seats in the 1946 and 1953 registers. Rebuilt again in 1957, still as Tea Car but with only 24 seats. Through-wired for operation with AEC railcars. Withdrawn 1965 and converted to departmental stock 522A. 

839: Remained basically unchanged throughout its life. Listed with the nominal 72 seats in 1946 and 1953 registers. Withdrawn 1960.

840: Listed with the nominal 72 seats in 1946 and 1953 registers, demoted to secondary stock by 1961 when it is shown with 64 seats and 2 lavatories, fitted for Radio Train. Withdrawn 1964.

841: Converted to 3rd class Tea Car at unknown date after 1924, listed with 58 seats in the 1946 and 1953 registers. The 1961 register lists it as a primary 56-seat 2nd, no catering facilities. Withdrawn 1963.

842: Listed with the nominal 72 seats in 1946 and 1953 registers, demoted to secondary stock by 1961 when it is shown with 64 seats and 2 lavatories, fitted for Radio Train. Withdrawn 1964.

843: Converted to 3rd class Tea Car at unknown date after 1924, listed with 58 seats in the 1946 and 1953 registers. The 1961 register lists it as a primary 56-seat 2nd, no catering facilities. Withdrawn 1964.

 

As can be seen from the above, the history of this class is complicated! While in passenger service, some were fitted with lavatories and others with catering facilities, while some remained unchanged. After withdrawal, some were converted for a variety of departmental usage. Amazingly, two of the class have been preserved!

Here's a photo by Roger Joanes of the other survivor:

 

More to follow...

[Mol_PMB]

Each of the preservation groups has a page for their vehicle. Here are the links:
https://www.downrail.co.uk/rollingstock/gswr836/

https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/66/837-open-third

This is the GSWR diagram (Page 43, GS&WR Carriage Diagrams, Richards & Pender, 1976) actually linked from the RPSI website:

The IRRS drawing pack contains a proper detailed and dimensioned GA drawing of the vehicle, which I can't reproduce here. Unfortunately the right-hand edge of the drawing is badly damaged so the end elevations are only partially visible, but the missing data can be derived from drawings of similar carriages in the pack. There are also two slightly different drawings for a 50' underframe (not for this exact coach type, but contemporary and suitable) and a drawing for the GSWR 8' wheelbase bogie that was fitted to these. So there's good data as a basis for a model, especially with two survivors to look at.

[jhb171achill]

The compo you mentioned in your first post might be a more versatile model to do, as single composites were often used in later days on branch lines, often in between a tin van and a filthy C class!

Either way, if you're doing an etch of ANY old GSWR bogie, would you be making a few extras?

[Mol_PMB]

Let's look at some older photos.

From the RPSI website, 836 at Westland Row on 12-04-1952, photo by Des Coakham. Unmodified, plain open third with no lavatory or catering:

In the IRRS archive, a nice interior view of 837 on 10/11/1949:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509061464/

In the IRRS archive, 843 at Sligo on 01/11/1947. This was one of the tea car conversions, and at the near end we can see a long water tank on the centreline of the roof, and evidence of a serving counter below. Some of the curtains have been replaced by blinds and there is a bar protecting the large window opposite the counter. Note also the large vents over the windows at the serving counter end: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509172565/

Ernie has a photo for us in glorious colour. This is 840 at Cork on 26/04/1956. Two lavatories have been added at the right-hand end, each with its own water tank on the roof. The large window at the right-hand end has been replaced with a smaller droplight and small deadlights.Note the full complement of curtains in the saloon!

Another colour shot from Ernie, this time dated 12/09/1960 and again at Cork. The nearest carriage could be the same one pictured above, or another of those fitted with lavatories:

The IRRS archive has three photos of 843, again at Cork and still in service in 1964. We saw 843 at Sligo in 1947 as a tea car, but the carriage registers indicate that the catering facility was later removed and these photos show it without:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511484089/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511166071/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511484084

Finally, an IRRS photo of the oddball - Tea Car 838 at Kingsbridge on 10/10/1947 showing off its high elliptical roof, electric lighting and rather different styling following its heavy rebuild in 1924:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509061459/

 

So from the above, there are photos of all the main variants, I think. 

 

[Mol_PMB]

8 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

The compo you mentioned in your first post might be a more versatile model to do, as single composites were often used in later days on branch lines, often in between a tin van and a filthy C class!

Either way, if you're doing an etch of ANY old GSWR bogie, would you be making a few extras?

The compos used in that way were mostly the 57' compartment stock. I don't have any detail drawings of them, and they have more challenging elliptical rooves. So they don't meet my criteria this time round.

The compo mentioned in my first post is a non-gangwayed type more at home on the DSER suburban in later days.

 

But as you'll see from my post above, the third saloons were quite at home on local trains around Cork in the 1950s and early 1960s, and some were fitted for Radio Trains so could end up anywhere. They would also be ideal to hook behind an 800...

If this project works out (and I could get some extras made if people are interested) then maybe I'd look something else afterwards. 

 

[jhb171achill]

I have indeed seen a picture somewhere of this type of stock in trains hauled by an 800 class.

 

[Mol_PMB]

Finally for now, some photos of them in departmental service. 

836 became 463A, a Signal & Electrical mess car initially in green livery, seen here in colour from the IRRS in 1969:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510434237

By the late 1970s it had been repainted black with red ends, as seen in monochrome from Jonathan Allen in 1978, and in colour from Ernie in 1979 with a roundel added. Note that all these images show it with lavatories.

 

Another departmental survivor was 837 which became camping coach no.8 and then 530A. This IRRS colour photo at Thurles dated 27/11/1971 shows it as 530A in red livery with the roof boards being evidence of its former occupation. There are no roof tanks but the arrangement of the small droplight at the near end is similar to those vehicles which had lavatories fitted. It may have been part of the camping coach conversion:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511762380

Another IRRS photo of the same coach at Kilkenny in the mid 1970s:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527509963

And we've already seen Roger Joanes photo at Waterford in 1998:

 

Finally, back to the early days here's one of these coaches in GSR brown in the 1940s. The caption says it's number 83, but I'm sure there's a digit missing from the end of that.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508875601

 

So plenty of livery options to go at, and 100 years on the mainline network followed by 2 preservation survivors.

 

Is this something that others would be interested in? I'm thinking etched brass broadly in the Comet style and using bogies, castings etc available from the likes of Wizard Models. Perhaps with interchangeable parts at one end for the lavatory or tea car variants?

[jhb171achill]

The main line liveries are themselves quite a bunch.

1. All-over dark "lake" (an extremely dark brownish red) with GSWR markings 1902-25

2. For any used on main lines after 1906, same with white upper panls. This is the livery 836 is preserved in. It is unlikely all of this type got the white upper panels, and in fact is possible none did.

3. All-over dark lake but with SR markings, 1925-early 30s.

4. It is possible, but by no means certain, that some of these got the short-lived GSR "main line" livery of chocolate brown and cream (late 1920s to miod 30s) but again not certain.

5. Standard GSR all-over maroon, same as LMS maroon in Britain (and for that matter NCC & BCDR here). That's what's shown in that last IRRS photo mentioned above.

6. CIE dark green with lining

7. CIE light green with simplified lining (with or without snails)

8. Possibility of either green livery in "auxiliary" unlined livery of either green.

9. The few that lasted until 1964 are unlikely to have been repainted, but hypothetically at least one might have ended up in black'n'tan....

 

Yes, if you do a few etches, I would take one. 

Edited February 22 by jhb171achill

[GSR 800]

47 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Finally for now, some photos of them in departmental service. 

836 became 463A, a Signal & Electrical mess car initially in green livery, seen here in colour from the IRRS in 1969:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510434237

By the late 1970s it had been repainted black with red ends, as seen in monochrome from Jonathan Allen in 1978, and in colour from Ernie in 1979 with a roundel added. Note that all these images show it with lavatories.

 

Another departmental survivor was 837 which became camping coach no.8 and then 530A. This IRRS colour photo at Thurles dated 27/11/1971 shows it as 530A in red livery with the roof boards being evidence of its former occupation. There are no roof tanks but the arrangement of the small droplight at the near end is similar to those vehicles which had lavatories fitted. It may have been part of the camping coach conversion:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511762380

Another IRRS photo of the same coach at Kilkenny in the mid 1970s:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527509963

And we've already seen Roger Joanes photo at Waterford in 1998:

 

Finally, back to the early days here's one of these coaches in GSR brown in the 1940s. The caption says it's number 83, but I'm sure there's a digit missing from the end of that.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508875601

 

So plenty of livery options to go at, and 100 years on the mainline network followed by 2 preservation survivors.

 

Is this something that others would be interested in? I'm thinking etched brass broadly in the Comet style and using bogies, castings etc available from the likes of Wizard Models. Perhaps with interchangeable parts at one end for the lavatory or tea car variants?

I'd definitely be interested in one or two, including tea car variant.

[Flying Snail]

I'd be interested also - I'm thinking one or two might be suitable stock for my (on order) IRM model of Maeve in GSR Green?

[Mol_PMB]

True. They were originally built for Dublin-Cork expresses and although newer stock was available by the time of the 800s, there’s a good chance these would have been used to strengthen the train when needed. 
Once I’ve made a start on a design I’ll probably find it will be IRM’s next announcement

 

[GSR 800]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

True. They were originally built for Dublin-Cork expresses and although newer stock was available by the time of the 800s, there’s a good chance these would have been used to strengthen the train when needed. 
Once I’ve made a start on a design I’ll probably find it will be IRM’s next announcement

 

I think you're safe Mol!

I do have a pile of laminate and AEC etches I need to get to that are considerably more at risk of getting RTR'd before I do!

[Colonel]

Great work, as ever. From a modelling point of view, shorter coaches are very effective at making trains look longer. For example three fifty footers are only fractionally longer than two Mark 3s, or similar.

[Mol_PMB]

I found a few more photos in the IRRS Flickr archive. 

Here's one of these coaches newly converted to a camping coach, in pristine (monochrome) red and cream livery in 1960. It may well be 837:

KAM_GSWR_X_Inchicore_07_June_1960 | [Photographer: Kevin A M… | Flickr

To get an idea of what it would have looked like in colour, here are a couple of other camping coaches in 1960 (not the same type of base vehicle):

MPC_GSWR_Dungarvan 18_Apr_1960 | [Photographer: Michael P Co… | Flickr

 

These two are not the clearest photos but are of interest to me as Fenit is a place I've thought about modelling, and might still do. Here's one of the regular summer Sunday excursions in 1960, with the set including one of the 50' open gangwayed thirds. It has lavatories fitted, so would be one of 835, 836, 840, 842. These trains ran through from Cork as an extension of the regular Cork-Tralee service. Note that the set also includes a Park Royal.

GJH_CIE_C212_Fenit_21_Aug_1960 | [Photographer: Graham J Hoa… | Flickr

GJH_CIE_C212_Fenit_21_Aug_1960 (4) | [Photographer: Graham J… | Flickr

My impression from the photos is that several of these 50' open gangwayed thirds were based around Cork in the 1950s and early 1960s for use on Kerry and local services.

 

[DoctorPan]

Likewise would like to throw my name into the ring if there's demand for a production run.

[Mol_PMB]

It sounds like there's a fair bit of interest - many thanks. I'll make a start on the CAD design and see how I get on.

I may well do the body construction like the SSM 6-wheelers as those seem to go together well. A little more complex than Comet but easier to align and adjust, and probably more robust too.

I think I'll need to make the sides in upper and lower parts though, to get the layered effect of the beading and panelling. 

[Mol_PMB]

On 22/2/2026 at 9:57 PM, jhb171achill said:

The main line liveries are themselves quite a bunch.

1. All-over dark "lake" (an extremely dark brownish red) with GSWR markings 1902-25

2. For any used on main lines after 1906, same with white upper panls. This is the livery 836 is preserved in. It is unlikely all of this type got the white upper panels, and in fact is possible none did.

3. All-over dark lake but with SR markings, 1925-early 30s.

4. It is possible, but by no means certain, that some of these got the short-lived GSR "main line" livery of chocolate brown and cream (late 1920s to miod 30s) but again not certain.

5. Standard GSR all-over maroon, same as LMS maroon in Britain (and for that matter NCC & BCDR here). That's what's shown in that last IRRS photo mentioned above.

6. CIE dark green with lining

7. CIE light green with simplified lining (with or without snails)

8. Possibility of either green livery in "auxiliary" unlined livery of either green.

9. The few that lasted until 1964 are unlikely to have been repainted, but hypothetically at least one might have ended up in black'n'tan....

 

Yes, if you do a few etches, I would take one. 

Considering livery 4 in JHB's excellent list. The book 'Dublin Railways Past and Present' (Baker) page 11 shows a train at Bray around 1930. It includes one of these coaches in the GSR 2-colour livery. Of course the preserved example at Downpatrick also has the 2-colour livery. 

Various CIE green livery options are illustrated upthread.

As yet I have not found any photos of these open thirds in livery 9, black and tan. However, there were some other GSWR 50' arc-roof coaches that received BnT in the 1960s. Definitely some full brakes and I think also a suburban compartment third. In due course I'll add to this thread to illustrate some of the similar types of coach.

Additional to JHB's list the colours carried after withdrawal from normal services included red/cream for camping coaches, and we've seen upthread several options of green, red and black in departmental use

[Mol_PMB]

There's a nice photo of one of these coaches in the NLI O'Dea archive:

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303897

The date is 10/07/1959 and the coach seems to be in light green with waistline and 2 class digits.

It's possible that this is the same train, with the coach visible in the centre of the shot: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303894

 

This is a rather nice shot dated 1938 showing an lengthy passenger train hauled by a Woolwich mogul, presumably on the Dublin-Cork main line: 

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303129

Cropped to focus on the carriages, the third and fourth vehicles are both arc-roof open gangwayed coaches but neither identical to the subject of this thread.

The nearer is a 50' third but has a lavatory about 1/3 of the way along the carriage (dia 41, I think). The next one is an older 45' open coach with a lavatory at the end (probably dia 34 third, possibly dia 12 diner?) 

The photo nicely illustrates the mix of rolling stock profiles so typical of an Irish express for many years. I think there's a Midland carriage and some clerestories further back.

 

I've made a start on the etch artwork based on the drawings from the IRRS. It will take a while but I've got the basic concept sorted in my head. As you can see from the first photo in this post there are lots of subtly different layers in the sides of the carriages, and a single layer of etch cannot capture the full complexity. There are compromises needed, between ease of construction of the model, strength of the components, and fidelity to the layers of the prototype. The model is 76 times smaller...

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Considering livery 4 in JHB's excellent list. The book 'Dublin Railways Past and Present' (Baker) page 11 shows a train at Bray around 1930. It includes one of these coaches in the GSR 2-colour livery. Of course the preserved example at Downpatrick also has the 2-colour livery. 

These are different, though. 

DCDR’s 836 is in the GSWR’s 1906 “main line” livery (which it COULD have carried, but almost certainly never did). This is the “crimson lake” rather than brown. A bit like the colour of Guinness, it looks dark brown (almost black when badly weathered, according to Senior, who saw an old brake third in that livery in the late 1920s). But in fact it’s an extremely dark red. The upper panels are off-white.

This coach was painted all-over lake (lined) some years ago, which is certainly correct.

The late 1920s-early 30s GSR “main line” livery, only applied to certain corridor stock, was different. It was a mid brown, similar to the Neighbour Island’s Great Western Railway, with buttermilk-cream upper panels and black lining. Quite obviously too, the former had GSWR markings, and the latter GSR.

[Mol_PMB]

Just now, jhb171achill said:

These are different, though. 

DCDR’s 836 is in the GSWR’s 1906 “main line” livery (which it COULD have carried, but almost certainly never did). This is the “crimson lake” rather than brown. A bit like the colour of Guinness, it looks dark brown (almost black when badly weathered, according to Senior, who saw an old brake third in that livery in the late 1920s). But in fact it’s an extremely dark red. The upper panels are off-white.

This coach was painted all-over lake (lined) some years ago, which is certainly correct.

The late 1920s-early 30s GSR “main line” livery, only applied to certain corridor stock, was different. It was a mid brown, similar to the Neighbour Island’s Great Western Railway, with buttermilk-cream upper panels and black lining. Quite obviously too, the former had GSWR markings, and the latter GSR.

Ah, you are much wiser than me in the early liveries! Many thanks for the clarification. The photo I referred to does not have an exact date 'around 1930', but it features an MGWR loco in GSR livery and a GSWR carriage at a DSER station so it is surely in GSR days.

[Mol_PMB]

The closest relatives to the 50' open gangwayed thirds were a group of 4 brake open thirds that were identical in style and dimensions and also built in 1902. In the Transport Research Associates diagram book these are diagram 32, and they were numbered 857 to 860. They were withdrawn between 1960 and 1966, so had the same lifespan as the thirds which are the main subject of this thread.

Originally built with a gangway only at the passenger end, another was added at the brake end in GSR days (not shown in the 1924 diagram but the 1947 and subsequent lists show them all having 2 gangways)

By 1961 the three survivors had been demoted to secondary stock.

I've found a few photos of these while looking for photos of the thirds, so I thought I'd just add them here.

First is an excellent colour view from Ernie, dated 12/09/1960 and showing one arriving at Cork Glanmire Road. With a C class for traction this is unlikely to be a Dublin express, more likely from Tralee.

The coach is in light green livery with waistline and 2 class digits:

The IRRS archive has two nice photos dated c.1964 showing what appears to be 860 S (S for secondary stock). Also at Glanmire Road, this one seems to be in 'plain green', probably light green, with no waist line or class digits:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511482569

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511482574

The NLI O'Dea collection has another nice photo dated 08/09/1959, and once again in Cork. This coach has slightly different roof details to the two shown above. It may be in plain green livery and looks darker than the freshly-painted light green K801.

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304702

Unfortunately the IRRS drawing set does not include these brake open thirds. However, I have a simple diagram and there may be enough information in the drawings for other arc roof coaches to derive a model drawing. But one step at a time!

[Mol_PMB]

Following on from the previous post, I found a couple more photos of brake third 860 in the IRRS archive, at Inchicore in 1954. 

The catch is that these images are flipped left/right - the carriage number is legible (backwards) in the first photo:

KAM_DKR_X_Inchicore_12_June_1954 | [Photographer: Kevin A Mu… | Flickr

KAM_DKR_GSR_98_X_Inchicore_12_June_1954 | [Photographer: Kev… | Flickr

The livery here looks like plain dark green, no lining or class designations. 

 

[Mol_PMB]

From Roger Joanes, another photo of Camping Coach No.8 (previously GSWR 837, later 530A) at Tramore. This is the one now at Whitehead.

 

[Westcorkrailway]

10 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

From Roger Joanes, another photo of Camping Coach No.8 (previously GSWR 837, later 530A) at Tramore. This is the one now at Whitehead.

 

I note what appears to be Roger Joanes name on the RPSI coach reservation list, I’d be tempted to say hello to him at the weekend

[Mol_PMB]

7 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I note what appears to be Roger Joanes name on the RPSI coach reservation list, I’d be tempted to say hello to him at the weekend

Good tip. Is his name pronounced more like Jones or Johannes? I've heard both.

[jhb171achill]

50 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Good tip. Is his name pronounced more like Jones or Johannes? I've heard both.

Pronunced Jones. A very approachable, deeply knowledgable and thoroughly decent guy!

[Mol_PMB]

The end artwork was more tricky because the end elevations and cross-sections on the original drawing were badly damaged. However, to fill the gaps I've been able to make use of other drawings from similar carriages, as well as dimensions from the plan view of the one I'm actually modelling. As far as possible I'm using labelled dimensions, only scaling when there's no other option.

I've finished the basic end now, there are some more parts yet to draw for the gangway, footsteps etc. Also I need to add the flanges and brackets that connect the sides, ends, underframe and roof.

There won't be more progress on this until later next week as I'm heading to Dublin tomorrow morning.

[Mol_PMB]

Newly posted by Ernie, the leading coach here is one of the 50' brake open thirds described a few posts up. 

Work on the artwork for the full third is progressing gradually when I get the chance. The body sides and ends are nearly done, but I haven't started on the underframe or roof yet.

[Mol_PMB]

Underframe artwork in progress, a few more bits still to do on this:

[GSR 800]

5 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Underframe artwork in progress, a few more bits still to do on this:

Fabolous work Mol!

[Mol_PMB]

Development of the artwork continues. The body is nearly complete, just a few more detail parts to draw and then I need to finish off the tabs:

Meanwhile the underframe is catching up. This will be a separate etch so that it can potentially be used with other body variants. There's still a fair bit to draw on this, and then I need to configure it all onto an etched sheet:

 

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

I think I've now completed the body etch artwork. This uses broadly the same construction principle as the SSM 6-wheelers which I found worked rather well. 

There is still more to do on the underframe and bogies, but that will have to wait until I'm back from Ireland next week. Then I'll get a trial set made.

I have provided some etched partitions for the interior but haven't yet gone beyond that - at one stage I was wondering about etched seats or at least seat ends, but I've run out of space!

The windows are quite big so maybe it's worth making some more effort on the interior, if there's room on the underframe etch? But these coaches were only ever gas lit so it will be gloomy inside.

The original seats were more elaborate than the restored example at Downpatrick, and they had high backs:

Also seen here in a photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509061464/

Or do I just use a bog standard Comet style open coach interior?

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/int3.pdf

What do you think?

 

And how do I reproduce the distinctive material for the curtains? 

(extract from Ernie's photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/54398371926 )

 

[Colonel]

Excellent progress! Single ply paper tissue for the curtains?

[Mol_PMB]

10 minutes ago, Colonel said:

Excellent progress! Single ply paper tissue for the curtains?

Thanks. I think you're right about single ply tissue - perhaps the stuff the etches come wrapped in. I had looked at crepe paper but it was too coarse. 

I also thought about using graph paper to approximate the checked pattern, but even with 1mm squares it's too coarse and the paper is too stiff. 

I don't think the tissue paper will successfully go through the printer, so perhaps a very fine pencil or pen could be used to draw a pattern? Or probably that would just look overscale. I will postpone that decision for a while!