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National Railway Museum in York.

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Broithe

By Broithe
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Broithe Grand Master

Broithe

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Imagine how much a site for it would cost in London?

 

If they even charged a couple of quid admission it would surely help?

 

I was implying that it might be looked on more favourably, if it was not miles away from the 'important people'. I have no wish for it to be in London, but there can be a tendency here for things out in the sticks to be viewed in a less favourable light...

Warbonnet Grand Master

Warbonnet

Posted
Posted
I was implying that it might be looked on more favourably, if it was not miles away from the 'important people'. I have no wish for it to be in London, but there can be a tendency here for things out in the sticks to be viewed in a less favourable light...

 

I understand, just reinforcing your point. When I lived there I travelled up to York to see it. Pissed all over the then recently revamped London Transport Museum in Covent Garden. Never did get into Acton mind you, even when working but a stones throw away from the depot. Would've been much more interesting I bet.

irishrail201 Collaborator

irishrail201

Posted
Posted

I think the reality of it, is that the MOSI the NRM and the other museum wont close....because there would be an outcry in the UK, so a lot of it is sensationalised

 

rather an entrance fee will come into force, which I think is perfectly justified, as people would be willing to pay.

 

Come to think of it, im bemused as to why the national museum in Ireland has no charge for entry

Southern Yard Enthusiast

Southern Yard

Posted
Posted

I'd agree the NRM are mad not to charge given the quality of their facility. The forth coming great gathering is free but they're asking people to donate £3, I even think a £5 fee won't deter people from the event given the line up on display.

wexfordloco10 Enthusiast

wexfordloco10

Posted
Posted

I think the admission charge was abolished during the infamous

Foot and Mouth outbreak in the UK to try to get the country moving again

after all the travel restrictions were imposed this effected most Museums etc

I think there would be a major backlash if it were allowed to happen

I personaly would not oppose a reasonable admin charge

David Wexford

minister_for_hardship Veteran

minister_for_hardship

Posted
Posted (edited)

Somehow I don't think NRM will close, given the British people's love of their industrial heritage.

 

They could have saved a lot by not p*ssing it away on the debacle that was the Flying Scotsman.

The thing is a played-out money pit.

Edited by minister_for_hardship
Guest hidden-agenda

Guest hidden-agenda

Posted
Posted
We have Cultra, soon-to-be revamped whitehead, existing Downpatrick and also Sean browne's stuff in Castlerea....

 

Thank god for all the above or there would probably be little or nothing to see plus with the road network its not that far to travel to see them unless you fancy a week-end break ( shops for the ladies and trains for the gents).

irishrail201 Collaborator

irishrail201

Posted
Posted

agreed Anthony!!!!!!

 

Its just a pitty from history what with CIE planning their own museum at one stage....many national treasures such as 6111, 131, slncr railcar, mgwr 6w stock,121 loco, 015 and a host of others.....

 

I feel good that at least Downpatrick can restore what stock they have at some point, and they are safe! but poor 6111...

 

When passing inchicore depot you can see it dumped in the open air (it was stored at one point)

Flying Scotsman 4472 Grand Master

Flying Scotsman 4472

Posted
Posted

The best way to look at it is if it wasn't for Cultra, Downpatrick, the RPSI, etc etc we wouldn't have any for our railway history at all to look at. The locos that are preserved as static displays or running would have all gone probably to the scrap mans torch along time ago.

Mayner Grand Master

Mayner

Posted
Posted
The best way to look at it is if it wasn't for Cultra, Downpatrick, the RPSI, etc etc we wouldn't have any for our railway history at all to look at. The locos that are preserved as static displays or running would have all gone probably to the scrap mans torch along time ago.

 

It was mainly down to a few far sighted people in Belfast Corporation who set up the Ulster Tramsport Museum in an East Belfast Tram Shed.

 

It was probably a natural step for Belfast Corporation as it had been involved in running trams and busses, but at the time there probably would have been an outcry from ratepayers in Dublin had the Corporation leased a tram shed or the Broadstone Roundhouse from CIE and started filling it with old trams busses and dirty steam trains.

 

At the time the railways were very supportive donating a lot of the locos and stock that got the ball rolling including GNR 91, 800, 186 and the DKR carriages.

 

In the South everyone made a song and dance about heritage but no one was prepared to pay, while the Ulsterman put his money where his mouth was and gots on with it setting up the Belfast Transport Museum, RPSI and Downpatrick.

irishrail201 Collaborator

irishrail201

Posted
Posted
The best way to look at it is if it wasn't for Cultra, Downpatrick, the RPSI, etc etc we wouldn't have any for our railway history at all to look at. The locos that are preserved as static displays or running would have all gone probably to the scrap mans torch along time ago.

 

Agreed all excellent in their own right

minister_for_hardship Veteran

minister_for_hardship

Posted
Posted (edited)
agreed Anthony!!!!!!

 

Its just a pitty from history what with CIE planning their own museum at one stage....many national treasures such as 6111, 131, slncr railcar, mgwr 6w stock,121 loco, 015 and a host of others.....

 

I feel good that at least Downpatrick can restore what stock they have at some point, and they are safe! but poor 6111...

 

When passing inchicore depot you can see it dumped in the open air (it was stored at one point)

 

It's not up to CIE/IE to preserve anything, but maybe offering 6111 to a (responsible) interested party or else put it out of its misery.

Edited by minister_for_hardship
irishrail201 Collaborator

irishrail201

Posted
Posted
It's not up to CIE/IE to preserve anything, but maybe offering 6111 to a (responsible) interested party or else put it out of its misery.

 

Well according to CIE's website some museum was going to be established to pass on skills etc.. I think they only changed it in the past few years!

 

 

And CIE has blocked some attempts to form a preserved line (on an abandoned line) down here.

jhb171achill Grand Master

jhb171achill

Posted
Posted

To be fair to all:

 

1. CIE. As said elsewhere, their remit is to get people from A to B; their holding of the post of heritage officer, for example, has more to do with the practicalities of how to compromise listed building status with the need to alter a heritage building for modern use. They are not a museum, and consequently have no related responsibilities. In addition, they have always been approachable by reputable heritage groups for acquisition of "threatened" historic vehicles. By their offices, A39, 141, 142, 800 and 90 were preserved, along with the SLNCR railcar and at least two MGWR 6 wheelers, which are variously in the care of ITG, RPSI, DCDR & UFTM. Add to that the numerous other diesels they hav e made available to the ITG, and carriages for the RPSI.

 

2. Preservation Groups. The UFTM, RPSI and DCDR have all had discussions at some stage in the past with Inchicore with regard to 6111. Thus far, nothing has arisen from these discussions - but never say never, I suppose. Each of the above (with UFTM's exception) is a voluntary group with limited space, money and manpower, and with the best will in the world cannot acquire something simply because it's important - as 6111 doubtless is. There has to be somewhere to put it, several thousand euros to transport it, and so on, even without a long term plan to fix it up.

 

In terms of setting up a transport museum, it isn't CIE's responsibility. In addition, they are constrained by railway disposal laws in terms of how, when and to whom they can offer disused routes; apparently they can only offer to a local authority, who will then have a choice of spending ratepayer's money on acquiring land to be given for nothing to a heritage group, or sold to them for market price. Few heritage groups will have this, and access to grant aid is limited for a "start-up" group, as they will be applying for money to develop something they don't yet own. (This has been a stumblin block to a number of heritage set-ups over the years).

 

So who, and where, can we lay blame at for the lack of a museum in the 26 counties? The Government. If there is to be a NATIONAL transport museum, one would expect it to be like York. Who funds that? The British Government, not Network Rail or any voluntary preservation society. Until and unless those in charge of the country (God help us!!) take such an initiative, nothing will be done. And by now it's purely academic - there's nothing left to put in it bar 6111. No MGWR locos, no West Cork locos, no this, no that....

 

A forward looking administration in 1960 would have had the pick of what was still there. The most luxurious passenger carriage ever to run on this island - the MGWR 12 wheel saloon... numerous narrow gauge things... and so on.

Mayner Grand Master

Mayner

Posted
Posted

In the 90s there were quite concrete plans for a National Transport Museum in Mullingar but it rapidly fell apart when it was realsied a lot of public money was involved and Mary O'Rourke wanted the money to go to Athlone.

 

One has to take one hat off to the Council and people of Belfast for setting up a transport museum at a time the Northern Ireland Government thought railways were a complete waste of time and public money.

jhb171achill Grand Master

jhb171achill

Posted
Posted

Quite right, Mayner; given the circumstances at the time, it was very far sighted. The Mullingar project you mention was put to the RPSI at the time, and they expressed a wish to co-operate with whatever came of it. Unfortunately, nothing did! One of the projected plans in relation to this was the operation of heritage trains over the old Midland line to Athlone... one of life's "what-ifs"...

Mayner Grand Master

Mayner

Posted
Posted
Quite right, Mayner; given the circumstances at the time, it was very far sighted. The Mullingar project you mention was put to the RPSI at the time, and they expressed a wish to co-operate with whatever came of it. Unfortunately, nothing did! One of the projected plans in relation to this was the operation of heritage trains over the old Midland line to Athlone... one of life's "what-ifs"...

 

David Jenkinson of the NRM prepared a glowingly positive report as part of the feasibility study for Mullingar, and at the time described the opportunity as unique in these islands a large country junction station complete with mechanical signalling and other steam age infrastructure.

 

While CIE were originally supportive, Mary O'Rourke as minister responsible for transport and Westmeath TD (Athlone) seems to have opposed the scheme from the begining pulled the rug out from underneath CIE & a local comittee after making disparaging remarks about railway enthuiasts and train spotters and wanting a proper museum.

 

The feasibility project for the "proper museum" blew the cost of setting up the project out to around £5m there was no prospect of public funding with Mary apparently supporting a rival scheme in Athlone, so in the end nothing happened.

 

 

jhb171achill Grand Master

jhb171achill

Posted
Posted

Typical. Politicians interfering; good old Irish brown envelopes.....

 

Related note: they say that democracy is the worst form of government in the world (apart from the alternatives); or that voters deserve what they vote for. In the above example, as many others, the latter is the case.....

 

Now that you mention it, I do indeed remember talk of the Athlone scheme. While I can't remember the details, those close to it in the enthusiast world back then did take the view that it was pie in the sky, and the Mullingar one would have been far better.

irishrail201 Collaborator

irishrail201

Posted
Posted (edited)
David Jenkinson of the NRM prepared a glowingly positive report as part of the feasibility study for Mullingar, and at the time described the opportunity as unique in these islands a large country junction station complete with mechanical signalling and other steam age infrastructure.

 

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Does a copy exist?

 

It is still theoretically possible....although remember the GSRPS......and how westrail ended

Edited by irishrail201
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