MGWR 20 Ton Incline Brake Van

[Glenderg]

Gents,

 

Need your assistance with my brake van fetish, and I apologize to Ernie Shepherd for using his photo, but I can't proceed without it. I've built a model of this fellow based on drawings and info in the MGWR book. Question is, does anyone know what colour it might have been? I'm inclined to go for a lightish dirty grey all over with darker grey from the strakes (cheers GC!) internal partitions and roof. Any thoughts? Richie.

 

[heirflick]

i'd lay odds that it was grey, but JHB will know for sure. nice choice of van to model richie!

[jhb171achill]

Gentlemen, we all have our limitations... :-)

 

I haven't a clue what colour these were! I have seen evidence elsewhere of MGWR goods stock painted a very light colour with darker lettering, but it's one of those things I never got round to asking reliable eye witnesses like Bob Clements.

 

I would suspect light grey, but could be wrong. At that time, NCC, GNR, DSER all had mid greys - fairly standard - whereas the GSWR had a much darker shade. Leave this one with with me and I'll see what I can dig out.

[Georgeconna]

That looks to be a smashing project, I would go with light grey as well, No one can tell you your wrong anyhow!!

[Glenderg]

Cheers lads - grey it is then! She was broken up in 1954, but appears to have a closer build logic to the later CIE 20 ton panelled brake van, than either 10 or 12 ton GSWR brakes, but that's for another day. Don't stress JHB, this can be our dirty little secret, just amongst ourselves! Richie.

[jhb171achill]

Richie - just spent a bit of time searching the most obscure recesses of my records to establish what colour it might be. To no avail; grey it may be, then - as Georgeconna says, nobody will know!

 

One detail I do notice - the lettering, almost certainly black, appears to be shaded in white. The Isle of Man Railway did this with rolling stock, though the other way round....

 

Ironwork appears to be the same light grey as the body (middle bars showing rust) as with the norm on Irish wagons.

 

Like you, I belong to that small micro-minority fascinated by goods (and passenger) brake vans. I'll be interested to see how this one turns out! If you're modelling GSR or CIE period, it would of course be LMS-shade grey with G S or a snail (if any of them survived that long).

Edited February 6, 2014 by jhb171achill

[Glenderg]

Excuse the quality, but i got as far as this a few months ago, and was unwilling to push on until i got a bit of clarity, and working on a timber panelled 20 tonner, kind of got me back in the zone. Thanks for the help JHB, will add a touch of white around the text, and see how it goes. Richie.

 

[jhb171achill]

Wow! Excellent stuff Richie! Looks fantastic. Maybe grey on the ironwork, or weathering instead of black?

 

Superb model. This is an area much neglected. Until 1960 or so when the standard CIE design became almost all-encompassing, there still remained some real relics, some one-offs like the curious 5J (I think?) on the Courtmacsherry branch, and various designs of old Midkand and GSWR types scattered about. A wooden GNR one ended up in West Cork in between the time CIE acquired part of the GNR (1958) and closure if that system in 1961.

 

Hint for modellers on that one, incidentally; the black ironwork on the GNR example (superbly restored otherwise, and a great credit to those involved) at Whitehead is entirely wrong. Black wagon chassis and ironwork was rare in Ireland - not unknown, but only on certain wagons. GNR goods brake vans were not among them...

[jhb171achill]

Just looking at your model again - the weathered look of the lettering really looks the part too... Congrats!

[Garfield]

Love it, Richie! Makes a nice change to see MGWR prototypes being modelled... too many people get distracted by flippin' blue yokes!

Edited February 6, 2014 by Garfield

[Mayner]

Love it, Richie! Makes a nice change to see MGWR prototypes being modelled... too many people get distracted by flippin' blue yokes!

 

Have to agree not enough Midland

 

Nice model Richie now you will have to build a rake of the Spanish hopper wagons that were used in the Broadstone loco coal train:banana: .

 

I dug out a copy of Padraig O'Cuimin's IRRS paper on MGWR Wagon Stock.

 

Standard colour for MGWR wagons. dark slate gray. Loco & Traffic coal wagons black . PWD wagons sand-beige (Yellow), Passenger Train Vans brown, Brake Vans "generally brown" 1874 type mid-green 1923-24. Open wagons also started to appear in grey in the mid-1920s.

 

The shortie 20T brake van was a 1924 design the last of which were completed by the GSR and lasted into the late 1950s. The Parkside short LNER brake van might be a useful doner chassis and source of parts for an ex-midland van.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Mayner

[heirflick]

Richie- that van is as good looking as yourself! Well done=D

[BosKonay]

 

Beautiful work!

[Glenderg]

Nice model Richie now you will have to build a rake of the Spanish hopper wagons that were used in the Broadstone loco coal train:banana: .

 

Already thought of doing at least one of them, can't remember where I saw a drawing of it though. 1874 Standard Goods Brake Van is next up. There's a photo of the back of her in "A Time of Civil War" helping with a derailment...

 

I dug out a copy of Padraig O'Cuimin's IRRS paper on MGWR Wagon Stock.

 

Standard colour for MGWR wagons. dark slate gray. Loco & Traffic coal wagons black . PWD wagons sand-beige (Yellow), Passenger Train Vans brown, Brake Vans "generally brown" 1874 type mid-green 1923-24. Open wagons also started to appear in grey in the mid-1920s.

 

The shortie 20T brake van was a 1924 design the last of which were completed by the GSR and lasted into the late 1950s. The Parkside short LNER brake van might be a useful doner chassis and source of parts for an ex-midland van.

 

The chassis I used was a wrenn diecast with 10' wheelbase and 17' over headstocks. I *think* the original was 10'6" WB and 17'6" OH, but I can't locate where I got that from just now. So you reckon a brown colour would be more accurate then?

 

(It's from your Cramer articles and scans that this obsession started - cheers!) Richie.

[jhb171achill]

Very interesting, Mayner - I had heard of beige colour for MGWR PW stuff, but the mid green is a new one to me. And I must have overlooked that, because I have a lot of Padraig's papers!

 

If that pic dates from then, the van could be green, though the very light shade makes me doubt it. On balance, probably pale grey.

[Weshty]

A fine looking van Richie. Diecast base? Some solidity in that I'd say.

 

Whatever about your love of all things brake orientated, just keep away from the horse boxes!!

[Mayner]

Already thought of doing at least one of them, can't remember where I saw a drawing of it though. 1874 Standard Goods Brake Van is next up. There's a photo of the back of her in "A Time of Civil War" helping with a derailment...

 

One I baked (20 years) earlier

Evergreen plasticard body Northeast 4X3 Stripwood straakes. Floquil Burlington Northern Green.

 

The chassis I used was a wrenn diecast with 10' wheelbase and 17' over headstocks. I *think* the original was 10'6" WB and 17'6" OH, but I can't locate where I got that from just now. So you reckon a brown colour would be more accurate then?

 

(It's from your Cramer articles and scans that this obsession started - cheers!) Richie.

 

I have lot to answer for: Might have to send some horse box diagrams.

[jhb171achill]

Superb work! Another one "off the beaten track" - great to see models like this.

[Glenderg]

I have lot to answer for: Might have to send some horse box diagrams.

 

I just had a junior moment. Behaviour that would not be expected of a senior!

 

Don't get me goin on horse boxes. Mr coackham was the best advocate of the rail based horse box. And jesus i love them too!

[Weshty]

Horse boxes, hmmm.

 

Brass kit anyone? Shall I add it to the ssm bucket list

[Horsetan]

Horse boxes, hmmm.

 

Brass kit anyone? Shall I add it to the ssm bucket list

 

The evils of temptation

[Mayner]

The evils of temptation

 

Things could get interesting I have the patterns & castings for the MGWR one just need to draw the artwork.

[Horsetan]

Things could get interesting I have the patterns & castings for the MGWR one just need to draw the artwork.

 

John: will you be collaborating with Des over that "Z"-type boiler for the SSM J15? I'd be keen to have a go at the kit (subject to funds, obviously) if the "Z" option was in it.

[Glenderg]

 

Things could get interesting I have the patterns & castings for the MGWR one just need to draw the artwork.

 

Which one? The alphagraphix one? 53M? Happy to collaborate on drawings, have it done.

John: will you be collaborating with Des over that "Z"-type boiler for the SSM J15? I'd be keen to have a go at the kit (subject to funds, obviously) if the "Z" option was in it.

 

Filthy talk of steamers. This thread is all about the glorious girls at the back, not the kettles up front!

[jhb171achill]

Somewhat off topic... but an essential part of the railway scene up to as late as early 1964 was the traditional old MGWR six wheeler. Anyone have any thoughts of a kit of that?

 

I should have an outline drawing somewhere -if anyone's interested, or indeed, if I can find it...

[Glenderg]

Somewhat off topic... but an essential part of the railway scene up to as late as early 1964 was the traditional old MGWR six wheeler. Anyone have any thoughts of a kit of that?

 

I should have an outline drawing somewhere -if anyone's interested, or indeed, if I can find it...

 

Are these the ones that ended up miserably with their roof.s cut off and filled with turf? Have been chatting to weshty about them, would love to, but the central sliding bogie is only something i've seen horse do. Tricky as a model.

[jhb171achill]

The ones with the roofs chopped off were of MGWR, GSWR and DSER origin, and maybe then some. But many six wheelers outlasted them and were routinely in traffic especially on branch lines and in the Cork area well into the early 60s. The last rake was kept for Youghal excursions and was not withdrawn until early '64, having last been used in '63. An IRRS jaunt in early '64 had one on use - the very last - it was withdrawn about a week later.

[Weshty]

The alphagraphix one? Happy to collaborate on drawings, have it done.

 

That's the baby...

[Glenderg]

Fom what i recall, it's a bugger of a chassis to get of the shelf. 9' wheelbase and 16'6" over headstocks. Lovely wagon though...

[Mayner]

 

 

 

Which one? The alphagraphix one? 53M? Happy to collaborate on drawings, have it done.

 

 

Filthy talk of steamers. This thread is all about the glorious girls at the back, not the kettles up front!

 

You have to have something up front to haul the train.

 

Having got to the stage of designing and building a couple of 2-4-0s I need some suitable coaches and non-passenger stock so some MGWR 6wheelers & a horsebox are on the too-do list most things post 70 are a bit too modern.

[Weshty]

Fom what i recall, it's a bugger of a chassis to get of the shelf. 9' wheelbase and 16'6" over headstocks. Lovely wagon though...

 

Well if it can't be found on the shelf, then one could design it to be made available on the shelf

[Horsetan]

Fom what i recall, it's a bugger of a chassis to get of the shelf. 9' wheelbase and 16'6" over headstocks. Lovely wagon though...

 

I think Cambrian Models might have something suitable: Click here - see ref. C34 and C35.....

[Weshty]

I think Cambrian Models might have something suitable: Click here - see ref. C34 and C35.....

 

 

Sorted. £2 for a kit with brakegear, brake levers, headstocks and buffers.

This saves a lot of hassle....

 

Consider it on the bucket list. Thanks Horse!

Edited February 7, 2014 by Weshty

[Horsetan]

Glad to have been of service....