CIE Palvan

[StevieB]

The final development of the 4w van was the Palvan, which looked very similar to the BR van of the same name. Now my question for the experts out there is did they mounted on a 10' wheelbase, as the H van, or were they mounted on the 12' wheelbase being introduced at the time? The recently introduced IFM model uses the latter but, compared with photos of the prototype, they look stretched!

Many thanks.

Stephen

[jhb171achill]

Correct, flange, I should have clarified that.

 

Few H vans had vacuum bags - I think is as one on a single occasion, though (a) I could be wrong, and (b) it might have been a one-off for some specific purpose.

 

For a modeller, all grey is the rule prior to 1970, bubbles included. There were extremely few exceptions, though one which springs to mind was the short lived red on Ranks grain wagons, which were hardly commonplace! Post 1970, brown graduates from start to about 60% (maybe 70%?) of working stock by 1976. From then on, it's virtually all bulk containers, bogie fert etc. All brown.

[Junctionmad]

. All brown

It was an " inspiring " freight livery. I well remember seeing the bogie liner flats at bell ferries in Waterford and simply thinking it's just " rust " whereas in fact it was a cie " cunning plan "

 

The fully fitted being true piped is need to me. I always thought that " fitted " meant vacuum clyinder as distinct to " through piped". Is this an Irish-Ism thing or is that uk practice as well

Edited December 23, 2015 by Junctionmad

[jhb171achill]

The were UK equivalents too, junctionmad.

 

With the all brown, and I suppose a nod to preservationists if and when preserved examples become due for repaint; correct versions have brown chassis and brown roofs as well, just as grey wagons had grey roof and chassis as well.

 

Like CIE steam engines, it was "sheep dip" procedure!

[Mike 84C]

In the UK "fitted" meant working vacuum brakes so would have the rubber "bags" on each end, piped was just a steel pipe running under the wagon with the rubber "bags" on each end. It just made a connection for the vacuum. Never knew why the rubber pipes were called bags!

[flange lubricator]

It's interesting that the CIE palvans were built in 1964/65 with no vacuum brakes I think the last non braked vehicles to be built?. I have always heard the railwaymen refer to the vacuum hose as "bag" I don't what the orgin s of that are .

[jhb171achill]

They were indeed called "bags" and still are. True, it doesn't seem logical.....! I don't know the origin. Anyone?

[Mr Bob]

Were there doors on both sides of the vans and if so, were they opposite each other or offset, with one at each end ? thanks.

[Glenderg]

31 minutes ago, Mr Bob said:

Were there doors on both sides of the vans and if so, were they opposite each other or offset, with one at each end ? thanks.

Whichever way you turn the wagon, the side profile is the same, if that makes sense. That way you can load the front of the wagon from Door A, the rear of the wagon from Door B. R

Actually, I've just read through the thread again, and had a good look at the photos once more. It's a Railway Clearing House (1923) 10' wheelbase chassis, with the Morton Independent Brake arrangement, but then on top of it, there's a (modified) Bullied triangulated underframe on top, with a cab on top of odds and sods but wider than the BR version, as it overhangs the solebar and makes the most of the irish loading gauge. What a mad, wonderful thing....

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Glenderg
discoveries, of sorts...

[Mr Bob]

12 minutes ago, Glenderg said:

Whichever way you turn the wagon, the side profile is the same, if that makes sense. That way you can load the front of the wagon from Door A, the rear of the wagon from Door B. R

Actually, I've just read through the thread again, and had a good look at the photos once more. It's a Railway Clearing House (1923) 10' wheelbase chassis, with the Morton Independent Brake arrangement, but then on top of it, there's a (modified) Bullied triangulated underframe on top, with a cab on top of odds and sods but wider than the BR version, as it overhangs the solebar and makes the most of the irish loading gauge. What a mad, wonderful thing....

 

Perfect, thank you for your prompt reply

[DiveController]

On 5/30/2019 at 4:52 PM, Glenderg said:

Whichever way you turn the wagon, the side profile is the same, if that makes sense. That way you can load the front of the wagon from Door A, the rear of the wagon from Door B. R

Actually, I've just read through the thread again, and had a good look at the photos once more. It's a Railway Clearing House (1923) 10' wheelbase chassis, with the Morton Independent Brake arrangement, but then on top of it, there's a (modified) Bullied triangulated underframe on top, with a cab on top of odds and sods but wider than the BR version, as it overhangs the solebar and makes the most of the irish loading gauge. What a mad, wonderful thing....

 

Such an oddity so different from the standard BR version in all these respects would surely be an essential component for anyone modeling 60s and 70s era especially if there an array of appropriate traction about to be released ....

[Junctionmad]

All was grey, junctionmad, until about 1969/70, when increasing number of wagons were being "fitted". Had goods wagons been frequently repainted, the grey would have vanished quickly, as all-brown became the standard for all goods wagons, fitted or not. But compared with carriages they rarely saw a paint brush. I photographed a standard H van in Ballina in grey - but not only that, still with a (obviously pre-1962) "flying snail" on it, as late as 1977. So it hadn't been painted for 15 years.

 

By the time loose coupled trains ended, and thus all the old 4 wheel goods vans were set aside, at least a third of everyday goods stock was still grey. While most had CIE "roundels", even the the occasional one still had a "snail" to the end.

 

Needless to say, nothing brown ever had a snail, as the brown appeared long after the roundel had dos placed the snail.

 

 

Thanks, my memories when I was photographing signals in the late 70s , was of mostly brown vehicles lain up in sidings everywhere. I never had a great interest in historical rolling stock per sae , its only now , revisiting parts of the network with the advantage of near limitless digital photography, that I nearly cry at all the missed photo opportunities I passed up