New motor(s) for the Hornby APT

Railway Lyons · May 24, 2012

Hi All,

I have recently purchased a Hornby APT. It runs Ok with the original motor in it but I would like to upgrade it to a more modern and smooth running motor.

I also plan on making other modifications to it like new lights, interiors and DCC control, so it would be a shame for the performance to let it down.

Has anybody already replaced one of these motors and any recommendations on best replacement to use?

Thanks in advance

BosKonay · May 24, 2012

Generally recommended are two Hornby Eurostar Motor bogies (Hornby Part No. X3437)

You can buy them from Hornby Spares suppliers (I think themodelshop.ie are one?)

You'll need to do a little cutting, but if you wire two of them up to a decoder, you should get lovely smooth DCC running

Warbonnet · May 24, 2012

Buy one Bachmann Class 25, rip internals out. Transplant into APT power car, graft on bogie sideframes and Robert's your mothers brother! Well, it's what I plan to do anyway.

Railway Lyons · May 25, 2012

Thanks a lot folks,

I will keep you updated on my progress and any snags I come across.

Cheers.

BosKonay · May 25, 2012

Another one for the mix is a black beetle motor bogie http://motorbogies.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_24

Railway Lyons · November 13, 2012

Hi to all,

I have successfully remotored my Hornby APT and it runs really nice and quiet now.

My solution in the end was 2x Hornby 5pole Class 35 motors.

They do have to be wired in reverse to each other as one side has rubber traction tyres so if you reverse the 2nd one and crossconnect the pick-ups all is good.

The Class 35 spares will fin right into the existing bogie frames so no need to cut anything.

I will be fitting a DCC decoder to it in the near future as well as directional lighting.

All in all the project is coming along nicely.

Kirley · November 13, 2012

Put up some pictures please to show us what you have done.

Flying Scotsman 4472 · November 13, 2012

Yes pictures would be nice

Railway Lyons · November 14, 2012

Hi All,

I have some pics to put up but I keep getting a "Database Error" when i try to upload them.

Is there an issue at the moment?

Thanks.

BosKonay · November 14, 2012

All should be fine - what exactly does the error say?

FrankS · November 14, 2012

:(I'm getting the same message when trying to upload a photo - Database Error

BosKonay · November 14, 2012

Working ok for me?

Can you give me more specific details?

Railway Lyons · November 14, 2012

Here is the 2 new motors fitted to the original chassis, no alterations needed.

Copper Clad board installed to allow easier commonality of wiring and simple installing of DCC chip

No alteration to bogie frames needed as Class 35 motor bogey fits perfectly.(Obtained from Peters Spares)

First Motor remains as arrived, second has wiring reversed.

Also fitted are DCC directional lights, including cab light.

Railway Lyons · November 14, 2012

Working ok for me?

Can you give me more specific details?

Seems to be fine now.

BosKonay · November 14, 2012

I changed around how the forum handles attachments, and moved them out of the database - should be ok going forward!

Stunning work on the APT! Any video of her in action? !

Dave · November 14, 2012

Great work on the APT good choice on the yellow LED for the cab light it looks like an incandescent light.

Warbonnet · November 14, 2012

Great work on the APT good choice on the yellow LED for the cab light it looks like an incandescent light.

Yes, something the new Murphy's locos fall down on, they look like Tanning Booths!

Railway Lyons · November 14, 2012

I changed around how the forum handles attachments, and moved them out of the database - should be ok going forward!

Stunning work on the APT! Any video of her in action? !

No video just yet. No layout to run on, just a length of test track.

Waiting to fit the decoder first and get to the club to run her.

Will post when I do though.

Kirley · November 17, 2012

Thanks for the photos

Flying Scotsman 4472 · November 17, 2012

Is it just my end or are the photos not downloading properly. I can only see a little of the top of each picture

scahalane · November 17, 2012

Me too, I can only see the top section of the photo.

Broithe · November 17, 2012

Mmm, I can see the whole pictures, no trouble at all.

But embedded videos no longer run on here for me, I have to copy them to the outside world - mind you, that is happening on my other forum, too...

BosKonay · November 17, 2012

Odd, looking ok for me - can you try clear your browser cache?

Flying Scotsman 4472 · November 17, 2012

can you try clear your browser cache?

Laymans terms Bud what button or handle do I need to press or pull:ROFL: On the iPad its still the same only the top bit shows on the laptop the photos are very very slow to load but they do get there after a minute or so.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Anthony

Flying Scotsman 4472 · November 17, 2012

Nice little modification there Railway Lyons do both motors keep time with one another or do they run one slightly faster that the other. Also do you need 2 decoders one for each motor in case of overload on one decoder.

Broithe · November 17, 2012

I 'double-ended' a Pendelino for a friend and we had to remove the traction tyres from one power bogie to avoid constant de-railing.

scahalane · November 17, 2012

Odd, looking ok for me - can you try clear your browser cache?

Thanks that seems to have done the trick.

Neat work there Railway Lyons.

Flying Scotsman 4472 · November 17, 2012

I 'double-ended' a Pendelino for a friend and we had to remove the traction tyres from one power bogie to avoid constant de-railing.

I know when your double heading the like's of 141/181's it can be a right pain to get them running exactly the same with out one pushing or pulling the other.

Broithe · November 17, 2012

I know when your double heading the like's of 141/181's it can be a right pain to get them running exactly the same with out one pushing or pulling the other.

With all-metal wheels you can get away with a bit of sliding, but having traction tyres, on one side!, made life very difficult. Personally, I hate rubber on the rail, and finally persuaded him to put four all-metal wheels on one of the power bogies - it's been OK since then.

I tried it with all eight powered wheels un-tyred, but we have a 1/35 slope whilst the end of the train is still on a bend and it wouldn't have it - maybe with more adhesion weight we could have improved things, but he's happy as it is now...

Edited November 17, 2012 by Broithe

drt7uk · October 7, 2018

On 11/17/2012 at 8:17 PM, Broithe said:

With all-metal wheels you can get away with a bit of sliding, but having traction tyres, on one side!, made life very difficult. Personally, I hate rubber on the rail, and finally persuaded him to put four all-metal wheels on one of the power bogies - it's been OK since then.

I tried it with all eight powered wheels un-tyred, but we have a 1/35 slope whilst the end of the train is still on a bend and it wouldn't have it - maybe with more adhesion weight we could have improved things, but he's happy as it is now...

Hi everyone - I've followed the photos in this post and installed a second motor, but I'm really struggling to get it to run properly. I'd prefer to have traction tyres, as I've got a steep gradient on my layout, but can't get current to flow - how did others get this to work? I can see how the current does run through the wheel flanges - but my Peco track is wider than the axles on my wheels so the flanges do not touch the track properly.

So I've put all metal wheels on it but am finding that it's still not working properly. They are both wired up as above and work fine when tested with leads to the controller, but not on my layout when connected to the layout (keeps derailing on the bends, and doesn't have enough traction)

Any further tips??

Many thanks,

David

Broithe · October 7, 2018

As long as the wheel rim is in contact with the rail you should have current available - the flange contact isn't really an issue.

For the derailing aspect, it can be worth checking that nothing (wires) obstructs the swing of the bogie.

This - https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/powerbase-mini-magnet-pack-x24-smaller-magnets/ - can be a way of getting greater contact force on the rail, without adding mass that makes the climb even harder.

Always worth cleaning the rails (and wheels) and seeing if things are any better then.

With the Pendelino, one of the problems was that sudden power changes, from a cheapo set controller, coupled with traction tyres on one side only, caused the bogie to 'climb out' and derail. A flywheel would have helped a lot, but wasn't really practical, a bit of 'slide' from metal wheels was the answer in the short term. A bit of extra mass, over the driven bogie(s) was also a possible benefit.

drt7uk · October 7, 2018

12 hours ago, Broithe said:

As long as the wheel rim is in contact with the rail you should have current available - the flange contact isn't really an issue.

Thanks very much for this advice!

My mistake - I meant wheel rim not flange. I'm finding the wheel rims aren't making contact with the rails consistently - is the solution to that to widen the wheels slightly? i.e. pull them slightly apart from one another

Best,

David

12 hours ago, Broithe said:

This - https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/powerbase-mini-magnet-pack-x24-smaller-magnets/ - can be a way of getting greater contact force on the rail, without adding mass that makes the climb even harder.

P.s. would you mind explaining how to use these magnets, where to put them in a model etc? Thanks!

Edited October 7, 2018 by drt7uk

Broithe · October 8, 2018

The back-to-back distance, for 00, should be around 14.5mm.

Back-to-back issues will also contribute to derailments.

The magnets fit under the motorised units and are attracted to the steel plates that need to be fitted under the track, increasing the force the wheel exerts on the track, but without adding (much) to the weight.

Georgeconna · October 9, 2018

Whip out the wheel Sets and clean the Axles too, I did mine last week and there was a good bit of old oil and dirt there which contributed to poor running and re set the wheels using a Wheel Gauge. Kinda ok on a medium speed but pretty poor at slow speeds all this was on code 75.

drt7uk · October 9, 2018

On 10/8/2018 at 9:43 AM, Broithe said:

The back-to-back distance, for 00, should be around 14.5mm.

Thanks for all this - I'll check the back to back distance next time I'm home.

I'm also going to try re-soldering the wiring with thinner, more flexible wires as that might be a reason for the derailing.

Thanks for your help, will report back!

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