Which DCC sound chip for MM 141/181

[Noel]

Hi Folks

 

Could any of you kind folk who have DCC sound working well on MM 141 or MM 181 locos please let me know where you sourced your sound chip and speaker, and also if you are happy with it. I understand it should now be possible to fit a speaker inside an MM 141/181 loco body without cannibalising it.

 

The only two sources I am aware of are Model Shop Belfast and Mr Sound Guy. Are these two different sound files, or the same?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Noel

[irishthump]

Like you say, Noel, it's comes to which personal preference.

 

As I said, Mr Soundguy's sound recordings are probably the best available, but I'm swaying towards the Loksounds. The main reason(s) for this is that I prefer the way the Loksound "drives". The hard acceleration is very good, you turn the throttle rapidly up to notch 5 and the engine sound goes straight to high revs (around notch 6-7) then settles back down to notch 5 once it reaches that speed. The ability to notch up or down with the function keys independent of speed is also great. There is also a brake and acceleration function which I have yet to get to grips with.

 

Also, now that I have a Lokprogrammer I can download my own files from the ESU website and customise each loco; different engine, horn, brake sounds etc. can be programmed to each loco. All functions can also be remapped as I choose.

 

That's the reason I'm selling the MSB decoders, to fund more Loksounds! Having said that I still have one of each the 141, 071 and 201 chips from MSB that I will hang on to, the 071 and 201 in particular are very good.

[irishthump]

I posted a link here showing how to change the individual sound settings on Zimo decoders, don't know if it's any use to you.

 

http://irishrailwaymodelling.net/showthread.php/3357-Adjusting-volume-levels-on-Zimo-sound-decoders

[Noel]

I posted a link here showing how to change the individual sound settings on Zimo decoders, don't know if it's any use to you.

 

http://irishrailwaymodelling.net/showthread.php/3357-Adjusting-volume-levels-on-Zimo-sound-decoders

 

Thanks IT. Btw, one of the little funnies i discovered with the newer Zimo decoders was difficulty writing to CVs above CV255 on the program/test track with NCE. The workaround was to program CVs above 255 on the main (i.e. POM). They can be read on the test track for verification, but only written to on the main. It's a know incompatibility document in their manual with some DCC controllers. But it had me stumped for a few hours when I was trying to alter volume CVs and duration of sounds like brake screech, etc. Yes totally understand about the LokSound. I will be getting one myself as well on your recommendation, with the EMD 567 prime mover.

 

I digress, but after this weeks tests, DCC a standard - not really. 2014 and folks have to know about binary bits and different BEMF settings. It's like the old days of the motorola 'brick' cell phones, # this, # that, instead of human menus. I love operating DCC but the human interface to setting it up is pathetic - utterly jurassic.

[NIRCLASS80]

Just to let everyone know that after a brief discussion with "legomanbiffo" at Warley he intends to do new Irish recordings and sounds during 2015 for ESU Loksound. He was running some BR diesels at the show and I have got to say the Class 37 was brilliant. Here is a link to his Youtube channel to have a look. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfRnBPFj6tZV_XCRMJTq4BQ

[Warbonnet]

Just to let everyone know that after a brief discussion with "legomanbiffo" at Warley he intends to do new Irish recordings and sounds during 2015 for ESU Loksound. He was running some BR diesels at the show and I have got to say the Class 37 was brilliant. Here is a link to his Youtube channel to have a look. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfRnBPFj6tZV_XCRMJTq4BQ

 

I'm not a huge fan of sound for the most part but his sounds are the most convincing UK outline sounds I've heard so far. Great news.

[BosKonay]

Great news indeed, the more variety of chips and sounds is only a good thing, especially when running several at once!

[irishthump]

Just to let everyone know that after a brief discussion with "legomanbiffo" at Warley he intends to do new Irish recordings and sounds during 2015 for ESU Loksound. He was running some BR diesels at the show and I have got to say the Class 37 was brilliant. Here is a link to his Youtube channel to have a look. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfRnBPFj6tZV_XCRMJTq4BQ

 

Well that changes the game a bit! Legomanbiffo's sound projects are probably the best out there.

[Dhu Varren]

Well that changes the game a bit! Legomanbiffo's sound projects are probably the best out there.

 

I was in communication with 'Legomanbiffo' about 18 months ago to persuade him to produce a sound decoder for an NIR 80 class. He seemed quite interested in doing so, to the extent that I provided him with some horn sounds. He confirmed recently that he was still on the case.

[Noel]

I've already posted this video on the layout thread, but just for logical completeness I though I'd add to this thread also, as it has plenty of footage of the new Zimo 141/181 sound chip in action, and it was the end result of the original question on the thread. Apologies for duplication.

 

[Noel]

Well that changes the game a bit! Legomanbiffo's sound projects are probably the best out there.

 

Hi IT, do you know if Legomanbiffo released an ESU sound project for 141 or 181? I can't seem to find one online

 

Thanks

 

Not sure if Tara Junction Noel's 161sa was the new legomanbiffo project, an other one (see below).

 

https://www.facebook.com/shares/view?id=10204947225589324&overlay=1&notif_t=story_reshare

 

The driver of 161SA notches off power while passing through Tara Jctn Station with a mixed rake of Park royal and Cravens coaches which are forming a relief special following 086SA on a Mk3 Super train set.

 

This DC Kits product apparently is NOT a legomanbiffo project: http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/dcc_digital_loco_sounds/irish_diesel_loco_sounds/class_141_gm_bo_bo_dc_kits_.php

 

Getting seriously confused!

Edited November 5, 2015 by Noel

[irishthump]

Hi IT, do you know if Legomanbiffo released an ESU sound project for 141 or 181? I can't seem to find one online

 

Thanks

 

Not sure if Tara Junction Noel's 161sa was the new legomanbiffo project, an other one (see below).

 

https://www.facebook.com/shares/view?id=10204947225589324&overlay=1¬if_t=story_reshare

 

 

 

This DC Kits product apparently is NOT a legomanbiffo project: http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/dcc_digital_loco_sounds/irish_diesel_loco_sounds/class_141_gm_bo_bo_dc_kits_.php

 

Getting seriously confused!

 

Noel,

 

I emailed DC kits a while back about any plans for Irish sounds and they pretty much said that they would be selling a suitable decoder for a 141 but that they wouldn't be recording any original soundfiles for it. So my guess is they are using the generic soundfiles from the ESU website.

 

Not sure about Tara Junction Noel's video, it sounds like Mr Soundguy's decoder to me.

[ttc0169]

Noel' date=' I emailed DC kits a while back about any plans for Irish sounds and they pretty much said that they would be selling a suitable decoder for a 141 but that they wouldn't be recording any original soundfiles for it. So my guess is they are using the generic soundfiles from the ESU website. Not sure about Tara Junction Noel's video, it sounds like Mr Soundguy's decoder to me.[/quote']

 

 

Lads,it was DC kits at the exhibition in Blackrock that I purchased the MM 161SA loco off,

I'm delighted with the quality of the sound chip and intend to purchase a few more sound chips for some of my 141/181 locos.

[irishthump]

Lads,it was DC kits at the exhibition in Blackrock that I purchased the MM 161SA loco off,

I'm delighted with the quality of the sound chip and intend to purchase a few more sound chips for some of my 141/181 locos.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, Noel!

 

Would you be able to post a video of 161sa showing the startup/shutdown sequence and all the other sounds? I'm very interested in hearing how this decoder sounds.

[Noel]

Thanks for clearing that up, Noel!

 

Would you be able to post a video of 161sa showing the startup/shutdown sequence and all the other sounds? I'm very interested in hearing how this decoder sounds.

 

+1

[ttc0169]

Thanks for clearing that up' date=' Noel! Would you be able to post a video of 161sa showing the startup/shutdown sequence and all the other sounds? I'm very interested in hearing how this decoder sounds.[/quote']

 

Will do lads.

[NIRCLASS80]

I have been working on a sound chip for the 141/181's using modified american loksound files. I have uploaded a couple of short videos onto youtube. The video quality is not great but the sounds can be heard as for some reason it won't upload in HD. Here is a link.

 

 

[NIRCLASS80]

 

[Noel]

Thanks for posting. That sounds really great. What are the breaks like and the flange squeal? Irishtump has done something similar. Did you use the LokProgrammer to add the EMD567 prime driver to the 071 project available on the ESU website?

 

What speaker did you use? Was it a standard 40x20mm speaker installed in the MM speaker cradle or did you remove the cradle to install a larger speaker casing?

[NIRCLASS80]

I actually used EMD645 non turbo for the base sound. The brake squeal is good, I will try and get a short video of it. I installed it with the standard 40x20 speaker that comes with the 21pin decoder and just used the Murphy cradle. I was looking at installing a cube speaker but run out of patience. The sound quality is actually good enough for me and has a much better bark in "real life".

[Noel]

I actually used EMD645 non turbo for the base sound. The brake squeal is good, I will try and get a short video of it. I installed it with the standard 40x20 speaker that comes with the 21pin decoder and just used the Murphy cradle. I was looking at installing a cube speaker but run out of patience. The sound quality is actually good enough for me and has a much better bark in "real life".

 

Thanks. Sounds more than good enough.

[NIRCLASS80]

Here is a short video of it stopping.

 

[NIRCLASS80]

[burnthebox]

He there NIR, that really sounds great, I couldn't get the first video to open, but no 192 sounded fine to me, well done, btb

[irishthump]

I actually used EMD645 non turbo for the base sound. The brake squeal is good, I will try and get a short video of it. I installed it with the standard 40x20 speaker that comes with the 21pin decoder and just used the Murphy cradle. I was looking at installing a cube speaker but run out of patience. The sound quality is actually good enough for me and has a much better bark in "real life".

 

That sounds great. Is this the newer 645 non turbo that was recently uploaded to ESU website?

 

Installing the cube speaker is simple enough. Just remove the installed cradle and you can fix the speaker to the back of the cab bulkhead.

[Noel]

Short clip of two variants of DC Kits LokSound 141/181 sound decoders (project built by wheel tappers for dc kits). The orange 141 loco has V1 of the project and has bass reflex speaker, the Black and Tan 181 has V2 of the project which had the new 'drive hold' software (i.e. Loksounds new 'Full Throttle' driving method). The clip just shows the locos underway, so next week I'll post a better comparison clip including shunting, starting and stopping, demonstration of drive hold, etc, but this just gives a taste for now.

 

 

I was really looking forward to driving with the new 'Full Throttle' software, but personally I found it mildly irritating and distracting, and was surprised to discover I preferred the V1 project and let the software simulate notching while I concentrate on driving. It lacks true coasting and realistic braking distances which the Zimo excels at for prototypical driving technique, but the 'wheel tappers' LokSound EMD engine seems to sound better and more throaty than the recordings of an actual 141. In fairness the basic speaker could be the problem with the Zimo project.

 

So my personal preference for baby GM sound options was the Zimo is the most realistic to drive, but the DC Kits/LokSound V1 sounds the best despite lacking coasting and scale braking functions. The V2 drive hold slightly underwhelmed despite the hype about 'Full Throttle'

[irishthump]

 

I was really looking forward to driving with the new 'Full Throttle' software, but personally I found it mildly irritating and distracting, and was surprised to discover I preferred the V1 project and let the software simulate notching while I concentrate on driving. It lacks true coasting and realistic braking distances which the Zimo excels at for prototypical driving technique, but the 'wheel tappers' LokSound EMD engine seems to sound better and more throaty than the recordings of an actual 141. In fairness the basic speaker could be the problem with the Zimo project.

 

So my personal preference for baby GM sound options was the Zimo is the most realistic to drive, but the DC Kits/LokSound V1 sounds the best despite lacking coasting and scale braking functions. The V2 drive hold slightly underwhelmed despite the hype about 'Full Throttle'

 

Noel,

 

As I said to you before Full Throttle has both coasting and braking features.

The coasting feature is activated by pressing a function key which drops the engine sound to idle while still allowing the engine speed to be controlled by the throttle. The brake function can also be assigned to a function key, when activated it brings the loco to a stop at half of the loco's programmed momentum value.

If you don't have these on your loco then the supplier, for whatever reason, has decided not to activate them.

[Noel]

Noel,

 

As I said to you before Full Throttle has both coasting and braking features.

The coasting feature is activated by pressing a function key which drops the engine sound to idle while still allowing the engine speed to be controlled by the throttle. The brake function can also be assigned to a function key, when activated it brings the loco to a stop at half of the loco's programmed momentum value.

If you don't have these on your loco then the supplier, for whatever reason, has decided not to activate them.

 

Hi Graham.

 

Viva la difference. The sound is fab, but personally I just found the 'Full Throttle' driving experience a little irritating because of the need to toggle 'drive hold' on and off to make a train move in a scale like manner. Again just purely a personal taste thing, but I prefer to to drive using just throttle and brakes like the real thing, and let the software take care of the sounds, notching and coasting automatically.

 

The new 'Full Throttle' versions of LokSound V4 seems more appropriate for mile long USA freight trains climbing and descending gradients in the mountains where speeds are constant but notching varies a lot, unlike a typical CIE baby GM hauling lighter shorter Irish trains. The automatic notching on the LokSound V1 projects (pre-full throttle mode) sound better as trains pull off and stop, as does the Zimo. Again given where the hobby was five years ago all three options are excellent, and offer a great choice now to model train drivers. The driving technique is quite different between the three options so will suit all tastes.

 

I have our hand throttles setup for 28 step speed mode which effectively is almost like having 8 notches using the 'Inc+4' and 'Dec-4' throttle buttons, so driving can be really simple using just throttle and brakes, which means I can watch the train rather than be distracted by cab buttons when operating.

 

Thanks btw for your highly informative sound videos, advice and DCC experiments. If I can figure out how to do PIP in iMovie, I may try and make a video clip demonstrating all three options showing the cab operation in a corner of the screen. I spend an hour last night driving both versions of the LokSound and enjoyed both thoroughly.

 

Cheers

Noel

[Noel]

Hi Folks

 

Just to correct some incorrect credits in some of my recent video clips. I posted a number of 141/181 sound clips showing new LokSound projects supplied by DC-Kits which I had thought were built by 'legomanbiffo', but 'biff' has kindly advised me he did not produce them but gave full credit to 'wheeltappers' who did make the sound projects. http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk

 

They have two variants of many of their sound projects, standard versions and PD (Power Drive) versions, which is their implementation of ESU's Full Throttle system, but implemented slightly differently. Essentially this allows you to toggle the throttle between controlling speed, or freeze the speed/coast and control notching. Thanks to Graham (Irishthump) for detailing ESU's implementation of 'Full Throttle' on his posts and PMs.

 

See links below to their Irish sounds, and super list of videos here: https://vimeo.com/user44816521

 

Irish Diesel Sounds: http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/styled-5/index.html

 

Irish Steam Sounds: http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/styled-4/index.html

 

We've never had so much choice for quality Irish DCC sound.

 

Cheers

 

Noel

Edited February 28, 2017 by Noel
typo

[Noel]

181 on passenger duty running LokSound decoder with 'Power Drive' (PD). I need to seal the speaker inside the loco body better as it vibrates at certain frequencies. Will PVA the speaker in place and seal in a plasticard box next time I open the loco up. This project has 'Drive Hold' feature which toggles the throttle between speed control and notch control. I'm getting more used to it as I practice, and it is growing on me, but I'm still leaning towards the non-PD version which very elegantly automatically notches depending on speed changes and throttle inputs allowing the driver to look at the train more.

 

 

Its a variation on ESU's 'Full Throttle' version.

 

PS: Apologies for intermittent auto focus noise from the SLR, I forgot to put it on manual focus.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Noel
typo