Chassis for 001 Class

[Weshty]

That would be great Des, but what did you have

in mind as regards motors.I don't know much about

the motor bogies such as Black Beetle and Tenshodo

bug.Could these work for the Co Co A class?.

 

Hi Eamon,

The design depends on what the most common donor motive power will be based on.

 

hacked Hornby class 33 new version

pancake motor

athearn jobbie

tenshodo

etc....

[irishthump]

Hi Eamon,

The design depends on what the most common donor motive power will be based on.

 

hacked Hornby class 33 new version

pancake motor

athearn jobbie

tenshodo

etc....

 

It would be pretty hard to come up with a "one-size-fits-all" solution I would think.

[Mayner]

Fairly distant recording but interesting comparison between 001s and the small GMs

 

There seems to be relatively little recorded on the 001 class and even less on the B201s which always seemed to be louder accelerating than other locos.

 

[Weshty]

It would be pretty hard to come up with a "one-size-fits-all" solution I would think.

 

Yes, yes it would.

 

That's why I said it depends on the most common motive power. It would be designed for the two most common types only, as I did for the Sulzer, but with a few improvements.

 

Of course all this is based on potential interest and joins the queue for other items under consideration.

[Dhu Varren]

It would be pretty hard to come up with a "one-size-fits-all" solution I would think.

 

Very interesting suggestion about producing a chassis kit in brass. Having given some thought to the matter, I have come to the conclusion that a ‘one fits all’ chassis is a real possibility, albeit one for the A Class and one for the C Class.

In both cases, the only difference requirement would be in the pivot bar, which would have to be different for different power bogies. It could be produced to fold into a flat topped upside down U shape, with marks to indicate where to cut for different power bogie heights, and then soldered into position.

[jhb171achill]

Both may be heard (and recorded) first-hand today on the DCDR, courtesy of 146 and A39. C, G and (hopefully again some time) E sounds too.

[irishthump]

I checked up on those sound files, and although the sounds were reasonable, the sound programme was pants, with only 2 notches, and very little else. As I said earlier, file 74460 is much more comprehensive with 8 notches, even though the sound is not quite right, but I am working on that. As you say, the A class just don't sound like the other GMs.

 

I had another listen to 74460, and it appears I was thinking of a different file altogether! It actually does sound quite good.

[217 RIVER FLESK]

Yep, the As retained their original exhausts after the engine transplants.

 

Got to correct this slight error after speaking with 'Mr. A'. When built, the As had a single exhaust port located above the main generator, it wasn't until when they were re-engine with the GM power units that they gained the 3 exhaust ports along the centre line of the roof.

[DiveController]

Got to correct this slight error after speaking with 'Mr. A'. When built, the As had a single exhaust port located above the main generator, it wasn't until when they were re-engine with the GM power units that they gained the 3 exhaust ports along the centre line of the roof.

 

It looks like one on the SF models if I'm looking at the correct thing. Anyone have any roof photos before and after?

[Vlak]

Hi all,

 

Just joined this forum and although I don't currently model railways I have an interest in the Irish scene, and have been taken aback by the work many members here have produced.

 

At the risk of hijacking a thread and perhaps tempting a ban on my first post here (!) if you'll allow me, perhaps I can give some information on GM engines used in Irish locos which may give some insight into their unique sound.

 

The A class were re-engined with GM 12 cylinder 645E engines in the late 1960s & early 1970s. These engines were fitted with 2x superchargers (known as roots blowers). The two roots blowers were located on the generator end of the locomotive. For the observers among us you will notice the addition of the two "mushrooms" on the roof at the end of the 'air vents' to facilitate this on the rebuilt A classes.

 

The GM engine's sound is very much governed by the type of exhaust manifold fitted to them. The A class have 3x exhaust ports on the roof roughly in the middle between the "air vents". It is this which gives them the unique sound. The original exhaust port for the Crossley engines was the circular hole at the opposite end of the fan which was filled in once re-engining took place.

 

Generally 645 engines idle at 315rpm and have a maximum speed of 900/904rpm when on full power. For the A class most were limited to 800rpm owing to the electrics & generator output (although several were re-rated to 900rpm for several years before being de-rated back down to 800rpm). I would imagine this would have had something to do with traction motor cooling owing to higher voltage being through them (the motors on the A class were naturally ventilated as opposed to all other CIE/IR diesel electric locomotives which were force ventilated).

Incidentally there are still several locomotives still in existence in Eastern Europe with the same engines & exhaust manifolds, and sound virtually identical to A classes - although on full power @ 900rpm!

 

The notching on GMs is somewhat 'gradual' in terms of power. When the driver moves the throttle locomotive from say notch 1 - 2 the engine will rev up to the set RPM and then the load from the generator will increase (governed by the load regulator) and you should notice the engine revs drop slightly as the "load" increases.

On the A class the load regulators (which are Metrovick and not GM) were tweaked to put out a higher rate of voltage once notching occurs, hence less of a "wind up / wind down" sound on the engine when notching up or down. This enabled the A classes to have the ability for quicker starts from stations. The load regulators on the C classes (again Metrovick) were set-up similarly to what is in other GMs, and more of a "whine" can be heard from the engine as it winds up / winds down.

 

The 071s and Class 57s do have basically the same engines, but the 57s are more heavily silenced and have 4 (?) exhaust ports through silencers as opposed to one on an 071. The higher idle RPM on a class 57 may be down to it drawing ETH. Incidentally as far as I'm aware the 071s were fitted with different turbochargers in the early 1990s which seemed more durable than what was in them originally. If you listen to an 071 compared to a 111 there is a distinctly different engine note between the two. The 111s tend to 'whistle'... While the 071s engine note sounds a bit more "meatier"! Although, I should say that 076's engine is fitted from an ex Swedish diesel and sounds very similar to a 111.

 

Hope this may provide some sort of explanation on the unique sound of our Irish locos,

 

Regards,

 

Vlak.

[Warbonnet]

Excellent first post Vlak and welcome to the forum! I'm sure we all love getting technical insights like that so feel free to keep them coming.

[Riversuir226]

Des, I d be interested in the chassis too a & c. As for power options i dont see the point in using ringfields in particular & would rather see an all wheel modern set up whether it be using bachy/athearn etc.

Dhu varren excellent work on the chassis & looking forward to seeing the end result

[irishthump]

Hi all,

 

Just joined this forum and although I don't currently model railways I have an interest in the Irish scene, and have been taken aback by the work many members here have produced.

 

At the risk of hijacking a thread and perhaps tempting a ban on my first post here (!) if you'll allow me, perhaps I can give some information on GM engines used in Irish locos which may give some insight into their unique sound.

 

The A class were re-engined with GM 12 cylinder 645E engines in the late 1960s & early 1970s. These engines were fitted with 2x superchargers (known as roots blowers). The two roots blowers were located on the generator end of the locomotive. For the observers among us you will notice the addition of the two "mushrooms" on the roof at the end of the 'air vents' to facilitate this on the rebuilt A classes.

 

The GM engine's sound is very much governed by the type of exhaust manifold fitted to them. The A class have 3x exhaust ports on the roof roughly in the middle between the "air vents". It is this which gives them the unique sound. The original exhaust port for the Crossley engines was the circular hole at the opposite end of the fan which was filled in once re-engining took place.

 

Generally 645 engines idle at 315rpm and have a maximum speed of 900/904rpm when on full power. For the A class most were limited to 800rpm owing to the electrics & generator output (although several were re-rated to 900rpm for several years before being de-rated back down to 800rpm). I would imagine this would have had something to do with traction motor cooling owing to higher voltage being through them (the motors on the A class were naturally ventilated as opposed to all other CIE/IR diesel electric locomotives which were force ventilated).

Incidentally there are still several locomotives still in existence in Eastern Europe with the same engines & exhaust manifolds, and sound virtually identical to A classes - although on full power @ 900rpm!

 

The notching on GMs is somewhat 'gradual' in terms of power. When the driver moves the throttle locomotive from say notch 1 - 2 the engine will rev up to the set RPM and then the load from the generator will increase (governed by the load regulator) and you should notice the engine revs drop slightly as the "load" increases.

On the A class the load regulators (which are Metrovick and not GM) were tweaked to put out a higher rate of voltage once notching occurs, hence less of a "wind up / wind down" sound on the engine when notching up or down. This enabled the A classes to have the ability for quicker starts from stations. The load regulators on the C classes (again Metrovick) were set-up similarly to what is in other GMs, and more of a "whine" can be heard from the engine as it winds up / winds down.

 

The 071s and Class 57s do have basically the same engines, but the 57s are more heavily silenced and have 4 (?) exhaust ports through silencers as opposed to one on an 071. The higher idle RPM on a class 57 may be down to it drawing ETH. Incidentally as far as I'm aware the 071s were fitted with different turbochargers in the early 1990s which seemed more durable than what was in them originally. If you listen to an 071 compared to a 111 there is a distinctly different engine note between the two. The 111s tend to 'whistle'... While the 071s engine note sounds a bit more "meatier"! Although, I should say that 076's engine is fitted from an ex Swedish diesel and sounds very similar to a 111.

 

Hope this may provide some sort of explanation on the unique sound of our Irish locos,

 

Regards,

 

Vlak.

 

Vlak, thank you for the informative post! A wealth of information there....

 

I wonder can I pick your brains further? DO you have any information regarding transitioning of the traction motors in the Irish GM's that used the 567 engine?

I'm guessing that transition was automatic considering the time these locos were manufactured.