Enterprise service

[heustonconnolly]

Hi

Does anyone here know if irishrail have plans to put mk4 sets on the enterprise to have an hourly service with the DD's. I heard this somewhere here before but I can't remember, I would much rather the DD's though, they are by far! the better coaches

[jhb171achill]

While the long term future cannot be foretold, as of now, zero plans to anything with Mk 4's beyond the main line and occasionally Killarney.

[tonybonneyba]

They where on tests on the northern line, but only got up to Dundalk (I think) & not a word said since. There was plans to put on 22000's with the DeDietrichs, because of their speed, comfort & already in use on the northern line because of having correct IÉ & NIR equipment. Tho, trying to imagine the 22000 in the new Enterprise livery is puzzling.

[jhb171achill]

NIR were keen to have them, Tony, but this was at a time when IE had other ideas! In particular, to store some, and keep the rest on specific links on the Cork line.

[heustonconnolly]

NIR were keen to have them, Tony, but this was at a time when IE had other ideas! In particular, to store some, and keep the rest on specific links on the Cork line.

 

So did NIR want to use them on the enterprise but IE declined? And also if you happen to know, why didn't Ie do some of the refurbishment on the de dietrich coaches, if they had split it,and refurbished some in inchicore it would be done by now!instead of doing them all at York Road?

[heustonconnolly]

They where on tests on the northern line, but only got up to Dundalk (I think) & not a word said since. There was plans to put on 22000's with the DeDietrichs, because of their speed, comfort & already in use on the northern line because of having correct IÉ & NIR equipment. Tho, trying to imagine the 22000 in the new Enterprise livery is puzzling.

 

So is there a plan to do an hourly with the 22k's?

[Railer]

I don't even think there is a service demand for an hourly service. Right now the Enterprise reputation is at a low point like it was in the early 2000s with all the failures. On the flip side you have cheaper and faster bus services that run every hour between Dublin and Belfast.

 

Irish rail and NIR need to get the line up to 120mph running the whole way, get faster rolling stock and better pathing around local services to bring times down below 90mins . It will never happen but it's what really needs to be done.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Railer

[hurricanemk1c]

There are still plans to do Mark 4 clearance to Belfast as far as I am aware, but no dates or anything set in stone. Bear in mind it took nearly 7 years to clear the ICR's into Northern Ireland (and the first 6 sets were pre-fitted with all the necessary kit).

 

Putting ICR's on for an hourly schedule I don't think will work. The sets need to be Premier Class and at the present moment (with the 5ICR covering one DD diagram), 9 out of the 10 sets are used every day (an impressive availability figure that rarely seems to drop - a credit to Drogheda and LTCD)

[Horsetan]

....Irish rail and NIR need to get the line up to 120mph running the whole way, get faster rolling stock and better pathing around local services to bring times down below 90mins . It will never happen but it's what really needs to be done.

 

The Boyne Bridge is surely a major - possibly insurmountable - obstacle to any sort of high frequency, high average speed running.

[NIRCLASS80]

100mph running with correct pathing and a return to no stopping in Lisburn would make 90minutes possible. But as Translink is always obsessed with stopping every train in every station and IE determined to keep the Dart system running to schedule, don't expect too much!!!

[jhb171achill]

Various replies above quite correctly make those points. The infrastructure, especially at the busy Dublin suburban end, is not up to the task of an hourly high speed train. The Cork line was quadrupled for some miles outside Dublin to accommodate up and down slow and fast lines. To do this from Connolly to Drogheda - necessary for reliable running as above - would entail knocking down half of north Dublin! The expense would be astronomical, and as others have said, and I confess to having ample experience of, there's a way cheaper half hourly bus. Bus Eireann / Ulsterbus on the hour, Aircoach (with excellent connections to southside city) on the half hour.

[heustonconnolly]

Surly passenger numbers will rise when all the DD sets come back!!,apart from the path out of Connolly to enterprise seems to be slowed down everywhere else too

[heustonconnolly]

There would be no need to get faster rolling stock if they got the DD's running at 90mph for most of the journey but it gets slowed down everywhere, but passenger numbers are bound to rise when to refurb is finished

[jhb171achill]

Let's hope the passenger numbers DO rise, and I agree, they probably will.

 

But to seriously compete with road traffic, car or bus, something very major has to be done, and the question arises as to whether there is the political will, north or south, to achieve that.

 

Certainly, while the UK has a Conservative government, don't expect too many more financial crumbs to be thrown to Stormont for public transport.

 

Mind you, should such huge infrastructural work ever take place, it could be done in conjunction with a rail branch into Dublin airport.

Edited December 30, 2015 by jhb171achill

[heustonconnolly]

The branch into Dublin airport would have risen passenger numbets all over the country as alot of buses travel to Dublin airport from intercity routes,although it would probably clog things up more along to line but as you said they could surly add one track a few miles after Connolly or even....

[heustonconnolly]

Jhb171achill, why was all the refurbishment done at York Road why didn't iarnrod eireann do half of it and it would be finished by now?

[Riversuir226]

Don t think Inchicore has the personnel to do the refurbishment work on the coaches, they did the majority of the work on the locos in fairness.

As for North Dublin its only a matter of time before work will have to be done on the Northern line out of Connolly. Can t see any more major road projects been allowed in the area and as congestion is increasing public transport is the only answer.

[jhb171achill]

I don't know for certain, heustonconnolly, but I think Riversuir's answer is right.

[tonybonneyba]

I don't even think there is a service demand for an hourly service. Right now the Enterprise reputation is at a low point like it was in the early 2000s with all the failures. On the flip side you have cheaper and faster bus services that run every hour between Dublin and Belfast.

 

Irish rail and NIR need to get the line up to 120mph running the whole way, get faster rolling stock and better pathing around local services to bring times down below 90mins . It will never happen but it's what really needs to be done.

 

It's not the rolling stock, the 201s & DeDietrich are well captable of doing over 100mph, but just havnt able to on the Northern line. It's the time tabling, the Enterprise never used to stop at Drogheda, Portadown or Lisburn. If it wasn't for the fact the train stops in every town it comes across, it would get to Dublin far more quicker, because when your stopping a 70-90mph train, you need to slow down in advance, then when your the station, it takes three ministers to get people off, get people on, close the doors, do your checks & depart. Already, that's 12mins just for Drogheda, Dundalk, Lisburn & Portadown.

 

The last time I traveled on the Dublin/Belfast line, there was many of speed restrictions in place (this was about a week or two after 9002 was lunched back into service), these where due to track works to help improve the speed of the service. I think if you explained to a passenger why the limit is in place, they would appreciate it, I would prefer a couple of weeks of slowness for a couple of years of high speediness.

 

Now on to that ever long lasting argument which has lead to many fall outs & hatered to the DD stock.... The refurbishment program.

 

What many people don't know about the Enterprise arrgrement is, IÉ take care of the Enterprising locomotives while NIR look after the coaching stock, so ideally, Inchicore done their part (easy, four(?) locomotives to refurbish) compared to what NIR get which is, four genny vans, four driving trailers which all need new equipment & 24 passenger coaches which also all need new equipment, completely refurbished bogies (yes, I know your shock, they aren't just painted).

 

NIR's network & fleet isn't as big as IÉ's, meaning NIR don't require as many people working in their main depots, which isn't ideal when it comes to a major refurbishment like this, where all the coaches are completely stripped back & mainly rebuilt, electronics ripped out & new ones put in & the gennys complete refurbished too. So ideally, it would of been fair for IÉ to refurbish at least one of their sets, rather that, which in this case would be 9003, because 9001 was started before months after 9002 on the inside part.

 

Any ways, here's some photos of the bogie refurbishment, which was agreed between me & the DeDietrich team NIR, not to be uploaded to any forum or social media until the set was released into service, this set being 9002.

[tonybonneyba]

The two refurbished bogies being unloaded to go under a coach being refurbished ^

The coach being refurbished ^

Recently power washed bogies being loaded for refurbishment ^

Bogie frame being refurbished ^

Wheels waiting to be pressed off the axels, the wheels will the be scrapped along with the brake disks & pads^

The bogie frame I worked on during my W/E their ^

Parts I had to clean^

All clean!^

I also had to clean these. You know air blast sound on the DD sitting in a station? Yeah. Well that is this doing their job, their job is to keep the coach body level to a certain point, so if there is more weight on one side, pushing the body down by a couple of MM, these will put more air in the air bag, raising the body back to level, or release air from the other bags, making the train level^.

Nuts & bolts on top of the frame ^.

 

Intresting enough, very little of the original bogies are kept, the rest are scrapped.

[airfixfan]

Good photos and spotted 749 in one photo and is it still hiding in York Road?

[tonybonneyba]

Good photos and spotted 749 in one photo and is it still hiding in York Road?

Thanks, & if you are talking about the 80 DVT, yes it is.

[hurricanemk1c]

NIR's network & fleet isn't as big as IÉ's, meaning NIR don't require as many people working in their main depots, which isn't ideal when it comes to a major refurbishment like this, where all the coaches are completely stripped back & mainly rebuilt, electronics ripped out & new ones put in & the gennys complete refurbished too. So ideally, it would of been fair for IÉ to refurbish at least one of their sets, rather that, which in this case would be 9003, because 9001 was started before months after 9002 on the inside part

 

Whilst the agreement is that NIR do coaches, IÉ do locos, IÉ refurbished 6 locos in addition to providing the ICR. In trying to defend NIR, you've said exactly why they should NOT have been given the contract for the coaches - way too little infrastructure and staff, componded by poor management on the project team. Would have been easier to ship them to the UK to somewhere like Wabtec Kilmarnock (who have extensive experience in refurbs) and probably quicker and at this point cheaper. However I suspect the EU funding restrictions prevented that

 

And it should also be said that Inchicore did a van and 2 coaches (9606, 9212, 9214) in 2 months due to the problems at York Road

[tonybonneyba]

Whilst the agreement is that NIR do coaches, IÉ do locos, IÉ refurbished 6 locos in addition to providing the ICR. In trying to defend NIR, you've said exactly why they should NOT have been given the contract for the coaches - way too little infrastructure and staff, componded by poor management on the project team. Would have been easier to ship them to the UK to somewhere like Wabtec Kilmarnock (who have extensive experience in refurbs) and probably quicker and at this point cheaper. However I suspect the EU funding restrictions prevented that.

 

And it should also be said that Inchicore did a van and 2 coaches (9606, 9212, 9214) in 2 months due to the problems at York Road

 

I was only going by the knowledge I had & who said I was trying to defend NIR, plus, NIR supplied a 6 pice class 3000 in addition to refurbish almost all the coaches.

[heustonconnolly]

I know that NIR maintain to coaches and IE maintain the locos, but if they wanted to get if finished as fast as possible they should have let IE refurb at least 1 full set,at least...

 

I dont see why York Road would have more personal and facilities to refurbish to coaches,remember inchicore has much more experience with coaches than York Road down through the years not refurbishing them but maintenance, NIR always had diesel railcars and not much coaches

 

So I think inchicore would have as much facilities as York Road?

[Riversuir226]

Historically yes but not now, mk 3's are gone since 2009. Inchicore has the better facilities but with the refurbishments of the 071 class locos plus keeping nearly 40 locos in service along with the mk4's its relatively busy for the amount of personnel in the works.

From what i can see all the coach related contracts were made in Belfast and were probably tendered on the basis that the work would be done in Belfast. Any movement in this would lead to expensive over runs on the budget.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Riversuir226

[heustonconnolly]

Historically yes but not now, mk 3's are gone since 2009. Inchicore has the better facilities but with the refurbishments of the 071 class locos plus keeping nearly 40 locos in service along with the mk4's its relatively busy for the amount of personnel in the works.

From what i can see all the coach related contracts were made in Belfast and were probably tendered on the basis that the work would be done in Belfast. Any movement in this would lead to expensive over runs on the budget.

 

I understand now:-D, with IE maintaining 40 locos and the overhaul of the 071s, they wouldn't have time to do the refurbishment,they did do all the locos though!

 

Are 227 and 231 being left in the green intercity livery or are they being dropped from the enterprise fleet?

[Junctionmad]

Any ways. All that shaped modular seating leaves me cold. A craven interior any day instead thank you.

[heustonconnolly]

Any ways. All that shaped modular seating leaves me cold. A craven interior any day instead thank you.

 

The craven interior is very comfortable!! But the refurbed DD stock is very modern and very comfortable, its the closest coach to a mk3 still in service if not better imo, I never traveled in cravens when they wer in service, only on specials ect,

[heustonconnolly]

Anybody know about 227 and 231 are they staying in the intercity livery?

[tonybonneyba]

Anybody know about 227 and 231 are they staying in the intercity livery?

 

I belive that 227 is no longer a Enterprising locomotive, dunno about 231

[heustonconnolly]

I belive that 227 is no longer a Enterprising locomotive, dunno about 231

 

Why not, is it because the locos don't need as much of a break from the strain of hep, but if thats the case they would have dropped tbem from the fleet when the mk3 vans came into service? Why now?

[hurricanemk1c]

227 is in the paintshop. Not sure about 231/233

[heustonconnolly]

227 is in the paintshop. Not sure about 231/233

 

Is it getting the enterprise livery or is it staying in IC livery with the white logo like the 071s

[hurricanemk1c]

Enterprise.