4mm Axle width and irish wagons

[Junctionmad]

In the middle of a few kit builds and a scratch built wagon, I was just trying to work out what other s do with the compromise between the wider Irish wagon sole bars and 00 gauge wheels. Perhaps the boys at IRM might comment.

 

Wider prototypical width wagons means the 00 wheels are in even more then normal, brake gear begins to look very odd, but narrower UK 4mm wagons then look wrong

 

DO people use longer pin point axles to handle the issue etc

 

 

thanks everyone

 

Dave

[scahalane]

If you check out my workbench I used plastic card to increase the width of the y25 bogie's when building my bulk cements and brass cradles to help where the wheels connect. I'm not sure what you might do for the likes of a 20' wagon.

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/65-scahalane-s-Workbench

[Junctionmad]

thanks

 

Really I was just looking for opinions , the easiest way is to widen the sole bars to the prototype 9' or 9'6" in a few cases and use 28mm axles, and suffer the 00 scale look of the wheels and brake gear being miles underneath !, if I ever get a belt to the head and go 21mm at least the work will have been done

[Junctionmad]

I was specifically wondering how the IRM chaps dealt with 00 gauge and the positioning of the brake gear., as well. I presume the hoppers are wider then UK gauge wagons ?

[Glenderg]

I was specifically wondering how the IRM chaps dealt with 00 gauge and the positioning of the brake gear., as well. I presume the hoppers are wider then UK gauge wagons ?

 

I know the buffer spacing is wider than the UK spacing, so can't really comment on width, but one assumes so to take advantage of the loading gauge.

 

How we dealt with the width issue is simple. It is modelled to scale in all respects, leaf springs and W irons all in the right place. The rear face is smooth (for tooling reasons) but where the axel goes is a little collar which protrudes about 1.75mm. (about the same dia as the shank of a cotton bud). This acts as the bearing point for the axle for those using 16.5mm wheels. To use 21mm wheelsets, simply file down the collar and insert wheelsets. No brass top hat bearings or reaming out etc. Well at least that's the theory. R

 

[Junctionmad]

Thanks for that Glenderg

 

Where I encountered my issues was in the Dapol Prestwin chassis, If I widen this to correct dimensions , i then need to use 28mm pinpoints. Your idea is handy I could make little blocks etc and place brass top hat pinpoint bearings in them ?

[Glenderg]

I suppose you could, but if you're going to go to the trouble of making a 21mm model, the prestwin chassis is far from ideal. You would only end up using the two solebars only,stripped of the hanger detail present, needing a new buffer beam, buffers, coupling hook, brake gear, wagon base and so on.

 

Getting 3.2mm styrene channel and starting from scratch would produce a far more accurate wagon. I'm sure you can get fold up brass w-irons for 21mm, the rest would just be whitemetal detail.

[Junctionmad]

I suppose you could, but if you're going to go to the trouble of making a 21mm model, the prestwin chassis is far from ideal. You would only end up using the two solebars only,stripped of the hanger detail present, needing a new buffer beam, buffers, coupling hook, brake gear, wagon base and so on.

 

Getting 3.2mm styrene channel and starting from scratch would produce a far more accurate wagon. I'm sure you can get fold up brass w-irons for 21mm, the rest would just be whitemetal detail.

 

hmmm, true

 

This arose cause one of the models is SSMs ballast plough , but the prestwin is really a poor fit, aside from the axle boxes everything else is wrong. Does anyone know of the correct pattern whitemetal axle boxes

 

 

PS: Richie, would you have an acrylic match for CIEs machinery yellow ?

[Horsetan]

.... I'm sure you can get fold up brass w-irons for 21mm, the rest would just be whitemetal detail.

 

Bill Bedford used to produce leaf-sprung W-irons for 21mm, but I think they were lost at the time that his etched parts range was taken over by Eileen's Emporium. Never seen them after that, but there's nothing stopping you adapting the P4 versions.

[Andy Cundick]

I'm still using ones Studio Scale Models used to do,might be worth trying them,Andy

[David Holman]

On a slightly different track, I am starting a new 3' narrow gauge project which will be 21mm gauge in 7mm scale. Branchlines do a nice wagon chassis, but am a little concerned with the idea of 26mm pin point axles as this leaves little meat on the ends for 21mm gauge. Where do you get 28mm axles from please?

[Andy Cundick]

i did get some ages ago i think from the S4 people,but these days make my own,using 2mm steel rod and "turning the pin points in an old drill with a file.They work quite happily.Andy.

[RedRich]

On a slightly different track, I am starting a new 3' narrow gauge project which will be 21mm gauge in 7mm scale. Branchlines do a nice wagon chassis, but am a little concerned with the idea of 26mm pin point axles as this leaves little meat on the ends for 21mm gauge. Where do you get 28mm axles from please?

 

Alan Gibson will produce 28mm axles without wheels. However you have to buy the P4, EM or standard wheels on 26mm axles, remove them and fit them to the 28mm axles.

 

Rich,

[Brendan8056]

Dave of Roxey Mouldings still lists 21mm gauge wheels for use in his Isle of Man coach kits, in O scale,

 

Brendan

[murrayec]

Hi David

 

Did you ask Branchlines? they got in 21mm gauge wheels and axles for me for two DART sets, it did take a few months though...

 

Eoin

[Mayner]

Northyard in New Zealand supply 28mm 2.03 dia axles Part No 471 @ $0.90nz & 12mm RE25/110 metal tyred plastic centre disc wheels Part 2197B @$0.95 nz ea

 

http://www.northyard.co.nz/

 

The wheels are intended for S gauge very strong and of good quality with a nickel silver tyre on a nylon centre. Tyres are wide for 21mm but a good compromise for OO

[David Holman]

Thanks for the help chaps. Being in 7mm scale for the last 20 years, it is easy to miss what is available elsewhere. The Branchlines chassis are compensated, so only need pin point axles at one end, while the coaches have inside bearings. Am thinking the railcar and unit (Clogher Valley) can be done in the same way as my Sligo Railcar B. The 0-4-2T instructions suggest Slaters wheels, so a small stock of 2mm rod seems the likely answer.

[Junctionmad]

emailed colin in AGW, still waiting......... ( sometimes I remember how tiny the trade is , in this game )

[Junctionmad]

Bill Bedford used to produce leaf-sprung W-irons for 21mm, but I think they were lost at the time that his etched parts range was taken over by Eileen's Emporium. Never seen them after that, but there's nothing stopping you adapting the P4 versions.

 

what could be used is the Bill bedford " internal " wagon compensation unit, it means pulling the wheels off , but thats not the end of the world. This fret has the wheels bearing in side the wheel on the axles, personally I think they should be reamed out to take 2mm bushes

[Horsetan]

emailed colin in AGW, still waiting......... ( sometimes I remember how tiny the trade is , in this game )

 

If he's trading at a show this weekend, you may not get a reply until Monday.....

[Junctionmad]

I got a reply from Colin in AGW, he has 28mm pinpoint axles @12p each. You need to then buy the ordinary wheel sets and change the axles

 

now to butcher the dapol prestwin to look right !

[Horsetan]

Deadly! I shall note this down for my own purposes.....