Murphy 071 Lighting

[JT22CW]

Evening folks,

 

Just taken delivery of my first Murphy 071. Stuck a Bachmann chip in it and tried the lights.

 

I've noticed the model does have the centre headlights, but, does anybody know how to turn them on...

 

Standard directional lighting is working even if the bulbs are tiny. Not sure about the big beams though...

 

Any help much appreciated...

[irishthump]

Why bother with cab lights men?

I dont think they add anything to the whole digital experience

They are too bright also imho

 

Maybe, but they are there and they're supposed to work!

[Noel]

Maybe, but they are there and they're supposed to work!

 

Correct with a 6 function decoder such as the MM one. But with other less expensive 4 function decoders the running lights and head lights should work normally bi-directionally using F2 and F4 on 071/201.

[irishthump]

Correct with a 6 function decoder such as the MM one. But with other less expensive 4 function decoders the running lights and head lights should work normally bi-directionally using F2 and F4 on 071/201.

 

No you're right. I meant to say cab lights in my above post.

 

Also, the function outputs differ slightly between the 071's and 201's. It's a bit hazy, as I haven't had to programme one for a while, but I think the headlights need 2 functions on the 071 and 1 function on the 201.

Edited September 19, 2016 by irishthump

[Noel]

No you're right. I meant to say cab lights in my above post.

 

Also, the function outputs differ slightly between the 071's and 201's. It's a bit hazy, as I haven't had to programme one for a while, but I think the headlights need 2 functions on the 071 and 1 function on the 201.

 

Yes the joys of DCC designed in the late 1970s. Reminds me of the first hobby electronics computer kit I had in 1979, a UK-101 with a staggering 4k of RAM. When I upgraded to 8k, I think I was one of four guys in Ireland with 8k in what we later came to know as a home computer or PC. 'Modern' DCC configuration reminds me of a time when I had to learn hex and programme a 6502 processor in machine code. At least the human intuitive iPhone came along and brought us all into the 21st century. If Steve Jobs had overseen the design of DCC we might never have heard of a CV.

 

On a serious note, decent spec 4-FN decoders cost about €25 and decent 6-FN about €35.

[Junctionmad]

Yes the joys of DCC designed in the late 1970s. Reminds me of the first hobby electronics computer kit I had in 1979, a UK-101 with a staggering 4k of RAM. When I upgraded to 8k, I think I was one of four guys in Ireland with 8k in what we later came to know as a home computer or PC. 'Modern' DCC configuration reminds me of a time when I had to learn hex and programme a 6502 processor in machine code. At least the human intuitive iPhone came along and brought us all into the 21st century. If Steve Jobs had overseen the design of DCC we might never have heard of a CV.

 

On a serious note, decent spec 4-FN decoders cost about €25 and decent 6-FN about €35.

 

in fairness Noel, there are several means of saving and speeding up CV programming ( Decoder Pro for example ) if you want that sort of thing. There are also advanced Cabs that allow function keys to be dynamically reprogrammed etc , ( and some smartphone based apps too ).

 

lol , you're right about Steve Jobs, however decoders, would come with silver and gold packaging and would cost 700 euros, and would only work with one control box !!!

[irishthump]

in fairness Noel, there are several means of saving and speeding up CV programming ( Decoder Pro for example ) if you want that sort of thing. There are also advanced Cabs that allow function keys to be dynamically reprogrammed etc , ( and some smartphone based apps too ).

 

 

Spot on. The Lokprogrammer lets you programme CV's with a selection of drop-down menus similar to Decoderpro. When you've made all the changes you want the CV's are programmed in a couple of seconds.

[irishthump]

And if Steve Jobs had anything to do with DCC it would have worked great and been user friendly but you'd have to buy Apple locos......

[Warbonnet]

And if Steve Jobs had anything to do with DCC it would have worked great and been user friendly but you'd have to buy Apple locos......

 

They'd be beautifully packaged and overpriced though.

 

Sounds a bit like MTH....

[irishthump]

They'd be beautifully packaged and overpriced though.

 

Sounds a bit like MTH....

 

At least the Iphones work!

Edited September 19, 2016 by irishthump

[irishthump]

On a side note, I see a lot of complaining about the archaic nature of DCC and the reluctance of manufacturers (specifically US companies) to catch up to more modern technology.

One thing that's overlooked here is that when the NMRA laid down their standards for DCC they insisted on any DCC systems being completely interchangeable (and backward-compatible)with newer systems. A good thing, IMHO. The last thing you want is a handful of companies selling different products that are not compatible.

[Noel]

They'd be beautifully packaged and overpriced though.

 

LOL

 

Seriously though the electronics design behind DCC is jurassic 1970s technology and it shows. Two rail track is capable of handling a form of fast ethernet/IP traffic capable of 'on the main' instant reprogramming and over the rails, live sound transmission from a central controller to micro amps and speakers on locos instead of needing all the electronics on the loco. RailCom is going some way to improving DCC, but ultimately its still in the dark ages - needing specialist hardware like a LokProgrammer good and all as it is simply reinforces the point. JMRI looks like it was released after MS-DOS 7!!! Cab ergonomics seem from the Motorola cell phone brick pre Nokia era. At least ESU have done a half decent job hiding the underlying old protocol with a decent UI on its newer systems.

 

[Noel]

On a side note, I see a lot of complaining about the archaic nature of DCC and the reluctance of manufacturers (specifically US companies) to catch up to more modern technology.

One thing that's overlooked here is that when the NMRA laid down their standards for DCC they insisted on any DCC systems being completely interchangeable (and backward-compatible)with newer systems. A good thing, IMHO. The last thing you want is a handful of companies selling different products that are not compatible.

 

Agree in its day NMRA brought standardisation which was vital at that time. Much like Posix Unix standardised all the 'X' O/Ss in the 80s, but the unix/linux/berkley like OS running on an iPhone or Android is completely buried and invisible to the modern human user and all the new goodies have been added since.

[Warbonnet]

At least the Iphones work!

 

In fairness I speak as an iPhone, iPad and iPod owner (just dont give me their computer, ick.) and the owner of a couple of MTH locos...

[Noel]

In fairness I speak as an iPhone, iPad and iPod owner (just dont give me their computer, ick.) and the owner of a couple of MTH locos...

 

Pray tell what is MTH?

[JT22CW]

For those enquiring about what system I use, it's a Digitrax DCS-51.

 

Not the best, I know, but never had any major gripes with it until now...

[Broithe]

Pray tell what is MTH?

 

Mike's Train House - http://mthtrains.com/ , I expect.

[Noel]

For those enquiring about what system I use, it's a Digitrax DCS-51.

 

Not the best, I know, but never had any major gripes with it until now...

 

Thats a good system. Doubt its the cause unless the cabs function buttons were reallocated.

[irishthump]

For those enquiring about what system I use, it's a Digitrax DCS-51.

 

Not the best, I know, but never had any major gripes with it until now...

 

It's basic, but it's a good system. As far as I know the F2 button is set to only work as long as it's pressed down.

 

Let's go from the start. What happens when you press keys F0 - F4?

 

And if F2 makes the cab light come on at one end what happens when you change the direction of the loco?

[JT22CW]

F0 - Direction lights on / off

F1 - Tail light on / off

F2 - Cab light at non-radiator fan end only

F3 - Shunt mode on / off

F4 onwards - Nothing.

 

Bachmann 3 function chip it is then!

[irishthump]

F0 - Direction lights on / off

F1 - Tail light on / off

F2 - Cab light at non-radiator fan end only

F3 - Shunt mode on / off

F4 onwards - Nothing.

 

Bachmann 3 function chip it is then!

 

Ok. So does the cab light come on at the radiator end when you change direction?

[JT22CW]

It doesn't. Same cab irregardless of direction.

[irishthump]

It doesn't. Same cab irregardless of direction.

 

Then I'm pretty sure the cab lights need 2 separate functions to work properly. One for forward the other for reverse. There's nothing wrong with the loco itself, you just need a decoder with enough functions.

 

It's Bachmann chip you're using right now?

[JT22CW]

Aye they're bog standard 3 function one, which makes sense now.

 

Fortunately DC Kits does a 6 function decoder for about £26. Small price to pay to get a perfect loco working in perfect condition.

 

Sound chip to be sourced still too mind!

[irishthump]

Aye they're bog standard 3 function one, which makes sense now.

 

Fortunately DC Kits does a 6 function decoder for about £26. Small price to pay to get a perfect loco working in perfect condition.

 

Sound chip to be sourced still too mind!

 

At least you know the loco is ok!

You can program a 4 function chip to work the directional lights and the headlights but you still won't have the cab lights so a 6 function is the best solution.

Sound decoder wise, I'd go for the Murphy Models sound decoder. It's a Loksound but I find they perform better.

[Georgeconna]

Sound decoder wise, I'd go for the Murphy Models sound decoder. It's a Loksound but I find they perform better.

 

I had both, I got rid my Murphys ones as the Soundguys one just sounded much better. Performance wise well they both did the same thing (this was before the Realdrive came in and I have not got one of those yet).

[irishthump]

Sound decoder wise, I'd go for the Murphy Models sound decoder. It's a Loksound but I find they perform better.

 

I had both, I got rid my Murphys ones as the Soundguys one just sounded much better. Performance wise well they both did the same thing (this was before the Realdrive came in and I have not got one of those yet).

 

Have to disagree with you there George! The Zimo decoder probably has better quality sound files but it is nowhere near as responsive to throttle changes as the Loksound.

 

But it's horses for courses!

[Noel]

Have to disagree with you there George! The Zimo decoder probably has better quality sound files but it is nowhere near as responsive to throttle changes as the Loksound.

 

But it's horses for courses!

 

Horses for Courses is dead right. Personally I prefer the RealDrive on the Zimo precisely because it is not too throttle responsive, it has huge inertia settings and accelerates and breaks slowly in a very prototypical manner. However some folk do not like this and prefer the more direct throttle response of the LokSound 4.0 decoders (i.e. before the recent addition of 'Full Throttle' drive).

 

I too have both and like both, but I nearly drool when driving the Zimo with real drive. I love the way heavy trains labour out of a station with the GM thrashing and notching up and down automatically in a very realistic manner. F5 puts it in light train mode which makes it more throttle responsive like the LokSound 4.0.

 

Now I have not yet driven the new LokSound 'Full Throttle' decoders which seem a huge improvement in terms of prototypical drive and sound, and possibly an improvement on the Zimo. I can't wait to get one and try it, I really like the sound of their new features 'Drive Hold', 'Coast','Brake','Dynamic Brake' and 'Run 8'. Will report back a comparison with the Zimo once I get my hands on a 'Full Throttle' decoder.

 

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-full-throttle-features/

Edited September 20, 2016 by Noel

[Noel]

Reading the ESU website FAQs it looks like 'Full Throttle' won't work with current MM 071 or 201 sound file versions until ESU convert them to FT versions which doesn't seem in the immediate future. As IT suggests it may be possible to download US FT sound files and add back the Irish horn, guard whistle and station announcements, but another FAQ seemed to suggest that sound channels could not be mixed with FT versions - not very clear.

 

I had hoped it was possible to just download a firmware update for existing V4 decoders without replacing the sound, but it looks like the sound recordings are remixed to work with FT (Full Throttle drive), and only US versions currently available.

[NIRCLASS80]

Reading the ESU website FAQs it looks like 'Full Throttle' won't work with current MM 071 or 201 sound file versions until ESU convert them to FT versions which doesn't seem in the immediate future. As IT suggests it may be possible to download US FT sound files and add back the Irish horn, guard whistle and station announcements, but another FAQ seemed to suggest that sound channels could not be mixed with FT versions - not very clear.

 

I had hoped it was possible to just download a firmware update for existing V4 decoders without replacing the sound, but it looks like the sound recordings are remixed to work with FT (Full Throttle drive), and only US versions currently available.

 

FT versions can be easily created using the suitable engine sound from the North American selections. These sound files are fantastic quality, a real move forward since the release of the original Murphy Sound files.

[Noel]

FT versions can be easily created using the suitable engine sound from the North American selections. These sound files are fantastic quality, a real move forward since the release of the original Murphy Sound files.

 

I hope your right. One of their not very clear FAQs suggested you couldn't use the LokProgrammer to mix sounds from two or more '.esux' files if you wanted FT.

[irishthump]

FT versions can be easily created using the suitable engine sound from the North American selections. These sound files are fantastic quality, a real move forward since the release of the original Murphy Sound files.

 

As NIR has mentioned the new files are much better recordings than the original MM soundfiles. Also, there are multiple versions of each engine type. I counted 4 different EMD 567 files on the site, so can have a lot of variety within your own models.

It's just a matter of switching out the prime mover sound on the MM file, basically drag-and-drop.

[irishthump]

I hope your right. One of their not very clear FAQs suggested you couldn't use the LokProgrammer to mix sounds from two or more '.esux' files if you wanted FT.

 

Not sure what they mean by that! Can you post a link to that FAQ?

[irishthump]

I hope your right. One of their not very clear FAQs suggested you couldn't use the LokProgrammer to mix sounds from two or more '.esux' files if you wanted FT.

 

They might be talking about the Loksound Select which is a slightly lower spec decoder than the V4 aimed at the US market. You can overwrite these with another soundfile but you can't mix and match sounds from different files.

[Noel]

They might be talking about the Loksound Select which is a slightly lower spec decoder than the V4 aimed at the US market. You can overwrite these with another soundfile but you can't mix and match sounds from different files.

 

That sounds positive. So would the EMD 12cyl 645E3 product code 74439 suit as the prime mover for an 071, and I could add back the Irish horn, whistle and station, announcement. The FT one on the ESU site doesn't sound very like 071? Very few 12cyl 645s with FT on ESUs web site.

 

The EMD 16cyl 645E3 V2 (FT) (prod 76410) sounds much more like the MM0071 prime mover even though its 16cyl. Confused!

[irishthump]

That sounds positive. So would the EMD 12cyl 645E3 product code 74439 suit as the prime mover for an 071, and I could add back the Irish horn, whistle and station, announcement. The FT one on the ESU site doesn't sound very like 071? Very few 12cyl 645s with FT on ESUs web site.

 

The EMD 16cyl 645E3 V2 (FT) (prod 76410) sounds much more like the MM0071 prime mover even though its 16cyl. Confused!

 

Yes, on the V4 decoder you can change every other sound bar the prime mover.

 

74439 sounds pretty close to me. I would'nt worry about the number of cylinders, it was the engine model 645, 567 or 710 which gives the distinctive sound. My 141's all use a 12 cylinder 567 but they sound bang on to me (and anyone else who has heard them!).