Craven generator

[Northman]

Hi,can an early craven GV be run with later coaches?

[waffles]

Basic answer is no not in passenger service But mixed stock cravens with Mk l Gen & Mkll's have been noted mostly on empty stock movement's from various locations to Inchicore.

Some time being triped on the back of passenger trains with the corridor connections and coach doors locked off.

[Northman]

Thanks for that.

[DiveController]

Hi,can an early craven GV be run with later coaches?

 

Can you clarify what you're referring to? I wasn't aware of Craven/CIE-built GSVs?

Thanks in advance

[jhb171achill]

Cravens didn't do any vans at all - the vans that ran with them were originally six wheeled " hot water bottles", then after late 60s the "Dutch Vans" and ex-BR Mk 1 "genny vans". All three of these types also worked with other stock other than Mk 2 or Mk 3, which had their own vans.

 

Cravens also worked with laminate conversion brake generator standards.

 

Cravens and other non air conditioned types never ran in service with "supertrain" types, though a very small number of instances of older types being towed out of service behind a Mk 2 (but not Mk 3) set did occur.

Edited April 20, 2017 by jhb171achill

[Irishswissernie]

Cravens and other non air conditioned types never ran in service with "supertrain" types, though a very small number of instances of older types being towed out of service behind a Mk 2 (but not Mk 3) set did occur.

 

This reminded me of a trip I made on the early morning (I think about 6am at Limerick Junction) Cork to Dublin in June 2003. The set normally compose of Mark 2 Air conditioned stock had a Cravens at the head end . It was in use, you can see the windows on the doors are open. A couple of 'stills' from my video

 

 

Ernie

[craven1508]

nice find, i think theres a photo on eire trains site with

cravens mixed with mark 2 galways and others.

[jhb171achill]

Absolutely brilliant, Ernie, a great find.

 

Such instances were exceptionally rare indeed.

 

In terms of generators, such trains had the converted Dutch vans.

[DiveController]

In terms of generators, such trains had the converted Dutch vans.

Three Dutch vans were rebuilt to run with the ex-BR Mk2A rakes of the early 1990s. The original builds could run with any vacuum braked stock such as the Mk2D Aircon stock

[Dhu Varren]

I would suggest that it is highly unlikely that the Cravens coaches shown in the trains of Mk 2 AC coaches earlier would have been in service. Although both types of coaches are vacuum braked and could run together, from a passenger point of view, the gangways on the Cravens are totally incompatible with the Mk 2s. The Cravens are steam heated, so there would have been no heat available, and the electrical systems are probably not compatible either.

 

Three Dutch vans were rebuilt to run with the ex-BR Mk2A rakes of the early 1990s. The original builds could run with any vacuum braked stock such as the Mk2D Aircon stock

The original Dutch vans could run 'out of service' in a train of Mk 2 AC stock but, like the Cravens, their gangways were incompatible, and their electrical systems were not suitable for running air conditioning.

The three rebuilt Dutch vans were only suitable for use with the Ex BR Mk 2a & 2b coaches obtained secondhand in 1990/91, as these coaches, unlike any other IR coaches apart from Mk 3s, were air braked, and their electrical systems totally different to any other IR coaches.

[Garfield]

I would agree with that assessment, Dhu Varren.

[Irishswissernie]

The Cravens was in use; I traveled in it from Limerick Junction to Portarlington. I didn't notice that the corridor connection would be locked as I didn't need to switch coaches. As it was a warm day 18th June 2003 (found me diary!) the lack of heating didn't twig either.

 

Ernie

Edited April 21, 2017 by Irishswissernie

[DiveController]

The original Dutch vans could run 'out of service' in a train of Mk 2 AC stock but, like the Cravens, their gangways were incompatible, and their electrical systems were not suitable for running air conditioning.

Thanks for the correction and explanation, David.

 

The Cravens was in use; I traveled in it from Limerick Junction to Portarlington. I didn't notice that the corridor connection would be locked as I didn't need to switch coaches. As it was a warm day 18th June 2003 (found me diary!) the lack of heating didn't twig either

I suppose IE could strengthen with the Craven in limited circumstances, return to non-gangwayed coaching, in summer during daylight hours, though this must have been an exceptional circumstance.

Edited April 21, 2017 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

Dhu Varren, your analysis is exactly correct.

[Garfield]

I suppose IE could strengthen with the Craven in limited circumstances, return to non-gangwayed coaching, in summer during daylight hours, though this must have been an exceptional circumstance.

 

It's possible the coach was not supposed to be in use but that someone forgot to lock the doors...

[jhb171achill]

More likely a member of staff in it.

 

As stated above, a whole host of incompatibility issues (as well as H & S re. gangways) would have prevented such things.

 

In the "olden days", no such restrictions applied, which is why it's becoming so popular with modellers. ANY wooden coach from any company, Cravens, laminates of all varieties, Bredins and Park Royals could all be in the same train. BR and Dutch vans interchangeable, along with the various types of "tin van".

[Irishswissernie]

It's possible the coach was not supposed to be in use but that someone forgot to lock the doors...

 

Yes, this is the most likely explanation, I thought nothing of it at the time but then I had been up since 5am and had to sort out my own breakfast at the Ballykisteen Lodge B&B etc. As for locked gangway doors, I regularly caught a service from Basle to Zurich Flughafen at Brugg which had a double deck First Class coach in the single level set. Its connection was/is at the upper level,but it was always in service. Swiss double deck sets often had a single deck Driving Trailer at that time also in regular service. I have added another rarity on Flickr from video stills - a 2 coach Push/Pull set on the Limerick shuttle.

 

Ernie

[jhb171achill]

That is most certainly a rarity! Thanks for sharing, Ernie!

[Junctionmad]

just a follow up

 

shows a galway train with a TPO and its one BSGV hooked up at the top of the Galway train , proof that on occasion older stock got attached to Mk2 trains

[BSGSV]

proof that on occasion older stock got attached to Mk2 trains

 

Not occasional that one! Every weekday for several years. Down Day Mail at 11:10 (or so) from Heuston carried the TPO and Van down, and the 15:10 (or so) from Galway brought it back up. The Mk2AC set did the 05:20 Up from Cork and the 20:35 Down to Cork, before and after the round trip to Galway.

[Mayner]

Not occasional that one! Every weekday for several years. Down Day Mail at 11:10 (or so) from Heuston carried the TPO and Van down, and the 15:10 (or so) from Galway brought it back up. The Mk2AC set did the 05:20 Up from Cork and the 20:35 Down to Cork, before and after the round trip to Galway.

 

Lasted a good few years when the up and down Day Mail was cancelled following the closure of Carlisle Pier and the TPO & Van attached to existing Heuston-Galway trains. The Day Mail used to connect with the overnight "Mail Boat" at Dun-Laoire usually a very heavy A Class hauled train full of tired passengers many of whom had already spent 8-9 hours on the train and boat from Euston.