Hornby diesel class 40

[joe123]

Hi All.  I have a Hornby diesel class 40  1.76 scale 00 gauge. And  would like to know would the class 40 be capable of pulling a rake of 15 freight wagons ?  with a combined weight of 105 ounces . weight  all ready added to the wagons  Thanks for your help .

[jhb171achill]

Should be, provided it's on the level.

Years ago, I used to take the weights out of ordinary Hornby wagons. If the track is well laid, this won't make them wobble unrealistically. My track was absolutely perfect, as it was laid by a former PW Civil Engineer from the GNR; i.e. jhb171Senior......

Edited October 10, 2018 by jhb171achill

[Broithe]

Six and a half pounds seems quite a lot - is that just the rake of wagons?

[joe123]

Yes that's right. I have a rake of 15 wagons , tankers , and containers and I added to each one a 5 ounce led weight use for fishing. I have all 15 done and the total combined weight of the 15 wagons come to 105 ounces my layout is on the flat with 3rd and 4rd  rad thanks to all for the replies

[DiveController]

Why did you add that weight?

 

[Noel]

NMRA weight recommendations are interesting reading.

https://www.nmra.org/beginner/weight

Suggests the minimum weight of say a typical 2 axle goods wagon 3 1/4 inches long (including any added weight) should be 2.6 ounces which is about 74 grams (eg Bachmann 1930-1960 era mineral wagon or van). You don’t mention the length of your wagons Joe, but it might be interesting to see if they are heavier than the NMRA recommendation for HO gauge in above link. Should also suffice for 00 as USA HO rolling stock has larger loading gauge. One of the other benefits of wagons not being too light is knuckle couplings like kadee operate more reliably when coupling and uncoupling (eg avoiding wagon bounce).

In relation to your original question I’ve had no problem hauling 20 wagons (out of the box weight) behind small Bachmann bo-bo loco such as 141 or BR class 25, or six passenger coaches.  Loco weight is a big factor, if the Hornby class 40 is of the newer metal chassis centre drive design, with both bogies powered, it should have no problem with 15 correctly weighted wagons. However if the older plastic chassis design with only one powered bogie it may have difficulty unless weight is added to loco (eg avoid wheel slippage).

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Noel

[joe123]

Hi lads and thank you for the reply’s . The reason I added the weights was because of delrailment. The size of the wagons from buffer to buffer is 4”1/2 inches long. Or 11.5 cm. There the Hornby 2 axel tanker wagons , Esso,BP, Shell. There 5 ounce lead fishing weight on each wagon . Total weight included the wagons 105 ounce. The loco was bought from Hattons It the Hornby class 40 with TT Sound. .There a rake of 15 wagons . Cheers.

[Garfield]

Five ounces = 141.75 grams. That seems excessive if you're adding that weight to each of your 15 wagons as you're expecting the loco to haul the equivalent of over two bags of sugar (albeit with less rolling resistence!).

To put it in perspective, P4 finescale modellers are advised to have 25g (0.88 ounces) per axle in order to prevent derailments, and that would be considered overkill for standard OO gauge (our Accurascale 24.5t hoppers weigh 26g in total and we have had no reports of derailment issues from any customers, including finescale modellers). If you're experiencing derailments, it's more likely due to an issue with a particular wagon (a wheelset may have the incorrect back-to-back measurements, for example), or there may be a problem with the track - either a manufacturing flaw or in the way it was laid.  

 

[irishthump]

I have to agree with Garfield here, 5 ounces per wagon is WAY too much weight. As he said the wheels may well be the issue here. Can I ask, are they metal wheels? A lot of the cheaper Hornby tank wagons come with plastic wheelsets. These can often be out of gauge or just distorted and they cant be fixed. If you switch them out for metal sets they will run much better straight away and probably won't need any extra weight.

[joe123]

Hi lads .yes the wheels were plastic. But I change the all out for metal. And used the back to back gauge on each of them . I agree what your saying about the excessive weight I give it a go and see how it react. Is it easy to burn out a loco motor? Cheers 

[irishthump]

18 minutes ago, joe123 said:

Hi lads .yes the wheels were plastic. But I change the all out for metal. And used the back to back gauge on each of them . I agree what your saying about the excessive weight I give it a go and see how it react. Is it easy to burn out a loco motor? Cheers 

Well if I remember correctly the Hornby class 40 just has 1 powered bogie, similar to the Railroad class 55. So it won't have a hell of a lot of pulling power to begin with. It would probably slip its wheels long before it could burn itself out but it still wouldn't do the motor any favours.

[joe123]

Well lads I did the test run , just useing the 6 container wagons. That was a weight of 42 ounce. Perfect on the straight but keep spinning out on the bends. So back to the drawing board, I will have to half the weight and see how that goes. Thanks to one and all for your great help and suggestions cheers Joe.

[Noel]

Suggest each 4” two axle wagon including the added weight is absolute max 3oz or 85g and that’s still a bit on the heavy side for use with tension lock couplings. Those wagons should run ok out of the box. Wheels may be the culprit. 

[joe123]

Hi Noel I might drop it to 2 oz. per wagon. I was after changing out all the plastic wheels for metal. And used the back to back gauge on them.the track seems fine everything else is running perfect on it. All the wagons were bought second hand and there Hornby which I never had any luck with the Hornby products cheers.

[Garfield]

1 hour ago, joe123 said:

Well lads I did the test run , just useing the 6 container wagons. That was a weight of 42 ounce. Perfect on the straight but keep spinning out on the bends. So back to the drawing board, I will have to half the weight and see how that goes. Thanks to one and all for your great help and suggestions cheers Joe.

What sort of speed are you running them at?

[joe123]

Hi Garfield very slow speed between 3 and 5 using the nce power cab.

[irishthump]

Where exactly do they derail? On curves? Points?

[murrayec]

Hi Joe

18 to 27 grams max should go into a wagon- no more unless you want to burn your loco motor out! If you still have problems with de-railing it's down to bogie, or coupler, or track problems! Run one wagon behind the loco with weight in it try 18grams first- if that works ok keep it hooked up and couple on another- test that and see if it runs ok, go through all wagons testing like this with the same working one hooked to the loco, connecting the one to test to it, and then you will find the problem.....

Eoin

[Noel]

For fun I just spent a few mins weighing an assorted mix of rolling stock and compared the weights with NMRA RP20 recommendations.  I'm not sure the NMRA formula of 0.5oz per inch in length of a piece of rolling stock plus one oz works for short two axle wagons, which the USA never really have anyway.  I've hauled 24 IRM cement wagons no problem but if I added the sort of extra weight NMRA suggests I'd have no chance with a single loco. The NMRA figures aren't far off for longer bogie stock (e.g. MM Cravens), but seems totally excessive for short wagons.  When in longer rakes my beet wagons could do with a few more grams when mixed with heavier rolling stock. False lead floor methinks for light unladen open wagons. And as for 3D plastic 20ft container flats unladen, they need to be metal chassis for weight.  No problem when the Bell container is on top, but shunting is a joke when unladen as too light and sometimes won't couple up.

Anyway the left column is the actual weight of the wagon.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Noel

[murrayec]

Hi Guys

Just to be clear on the NMRA advice about weight- generally their rule is being applied to long 'Cars' as they call them, we have coaches! The NMRA's idea of adding more weight if experiencing problems, is to do with long cars and mainly with bogie running gear- because of the transverse buzz over curved track!

2 axle 4 wheel wagons are not referred to and 35grams total weight is adequate- if still difficulties after that its down to- track, wheels, couplers, and general straightness of the model- ie;- all four wheels sit on the track and the model when pushed lightly will roll along without de-railing

Eoin

[joe123]

Thanks lads getting some great advice here. And Irishthump, they derailed on curves, and even on the straight. With a small rake of 15 wagons it could be a small problem with one wagon. It trying to pinpoint it that’s were the fun starts.

[Broithe]

Try just shoving individual wagons round the curves, empty, and see what happens.

Is it one wagon? Does it happen at the same place? Etc...

It can be all sorts of things - misaligned track joints, debris/ballast against a rail, duff wheels, a nick on a flange, the list goes on...

[joe123]

Thanks Broithe It going to take some time for me to find the fault. I will keep all you informed if I do find anything cheers.

[joe123]

I’ll think I will go back to being a pilot. Flying is a way easier.

[Broithe]

Methodical elimination - it's often the best way.

[joe123]

Oh yes, and the patience of a saint.

[Noel]

Another interesting site comparing NMRA, Australian and NEM weight recommendations.  The NEM figures seem more sensible weights. 

https://www.trainspotted.com/model-railroad/calculator/