New models with a 3D printer

[jhb171achill]

In conversation with Daughter-the-IT-Design-Professional, I am told that pictures of MGWR six-wheelers in a book I was dribbling and drooling over today, could be 3D printed.

I know that all here will be very well aware of this, and to a far greater extent than I am.

My question is, under what circumstances and using what type of printer, and at what cost, can such an honourable project be adequately executed?

DITDP might make herself available for the design team, hours permitting.

Thoughts?

[Glenderg]

Interesting idea JB! Knowing the cost of high end 3d printing, your best bet would be to make the parts and cast them to try and cover costs. Looking at about £500 for a 6 wheeler, I'd imagine, but very much dependant on how many parts. 

Seating, cabin, W irons, brake gear, any underside bits, any roof bits, any pipes. 

I'd avoid the likes of shape ways as the plastic they print in is impossible to fettle to a decent finish. 

R. 

[jhb171achill]

I'd be looking initially at just two parts - a side and end. Chassis would be done separately, and floor, interior and roof home-made from plasticard.

The sort of printer you have in mind - how much typically?

DITDP says that design work to an adequate standard would take a good three days work, maybe longer.

[Richard EH]

Hi all,

 

For wooden bodied stock, the shapeways materials don't do too bad a job, in my view - with careful finishing the grained effect is ideal for wooden stock. This GNRi W1 is entirely 3d printed by shapeways (apart from wheels, couplings and buffer heads!) - the material formerly known as white strong and flexible does a great job for the 6 wheel flexichass. 

Cheers for now.

 

Richard.

[jhb171achill]

Robert, did you do these yourself? The above looks superb. I’d be interested in any advice you might have about how best to do this and what type of gear is needed.

[Noel]

A pal who is a whiz with a number of mainstream CAD packages has just got a new 3D printer and some of the sample parts he has produced so far are amazingly precise with no sign of toothpaste.

[jhb171achill]

What sort of €€€€€ are we talking about?

[Noel]

5 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

What sort of €€€€€ are we talking about?

Don't know but I will ask him. He doesn't use this forum. I've asked him if he could design Bredin/laminate 1950s coach sides for me and he is going to give it a stab. Proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Deliverable results are the only thing that matters.

[jhb171achill]

Excellent - keep us posted!

[Noel]

23 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Excellent - keep us posted!

Will do but the only thing worth posting will be the physical evidence of a coach  Good, Bad or Ugly

Edited December 19, 2018 by Noel

[Richard EH]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Robert, did you do these yourself? The above looks superb. I’d be interested in any advice you might have about how best to do this and what type of gear is needed.

Yep! I've done a number of GNRi vehicles, some of which are up on shapeways. Unfortunately, with the changes to shapeways pricing a couple of years back, it made vehicles like the F16 and K15 unaffordable. That and the lack of my own 3d printer has slowed my output. I do like the W1 though, they're such a great vehicle to model!

 

Richard.

[Mayner]

The JM Design Tin vans were originally intended to combine etched brass sides with a plastic or resin body shell and chassis manufactured using high end 3D printing technology from my own CAD work.

But ended up as conventional brass kits as a plastic or resin body shell was uneconomic due to a combination of the limitations of the  3D printing technology and cost/ the  low level of demand for Irish coach or wagon kits.

Richies £500 excluding CAD work for a 6w coach is in line with the original set up costs for casting a coach body shell. As far as I recall the mould was good for 20-30 castings with a unit cost of around £20 per casting which swung the economics rapidly round in favour of a conventional kit.

The other issue is producing an acceptable model from the CAD work is likely to require a number of attempts even for an experienced designer, sometimes issues with the limitations of the process, material and CAD work do not become obvious until you produce the completed model, after-all Rapid Prototyping using 3D printing was developed as a low cost way to check that the prototype is ok before tooling up for production.

Bureau like Shapeways and I Materialise are a relatively low cost way of establishing whether a model is ok before committing to buying a 3D printer or commissioning a manufacturer to produce a model from your CAD work in resin or injection moulded plastic.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Mayner

[Mayner]

JHB

It might be worth while checking out Rapid Prototyping companies in Dublin.

While everyone tends to think of Shapeways, there are likely to be companies in Ireland that provide rapid prototyping services to businesses.

Inspire 3D may be able to advise you on the costs and limitations of 3D printing.

 http://www.inspire3d.ie/services/rapid-manufacturing-rapid-prototyping/

 

[jhb171achill]

Very helpful, John, thanks.

[RobertRoche]

I intend on getting a 3D printer next year, however the 3D skills are not up to anything complex at the moment. Almost anything is possible but there are also plenty of limitations with 3D printing and the models would still require a level of finishing after printing.

[Noel]

It seems like the early years of colour bubble jet printers, it took a decade for them to be good enough to print photos in any decent quality. The big stumbling block with 3D printers is the absolutely massive learning curve for some of learning a suitable CAD suite and CAD techniques particularly for 3D

[jhb171achill]

True. In my case, such learning would be well beyond what little addled grey pulp is left of whatever had passed for a brain.

However, Daughter is a highly qualified IT designer, to whom CAD seems to be child’s play. To my mind, a “web designer” is someone who knits webs to sell to spiders, which I will then stamp on or bat with newspapers. And thus, the world goes round.

My initial query was based on the idea that if I could get her to do the CAD stuff, and I bought a good quality printer, perhaps some sides and ends for several varieties of coach (e.g. my favourite theme - Midland six-wheelers), might be feasible, doing a few for myself and selling a few more.

Not sure of the financial side though.

Edited December 20, 2018 by jhb171achill

[irishrail201]

I've just purchased from TeeBee Models a 009 scale 2-6-0T Kerr Stuart, based on 4T on the Tralee and Dingle.

I deliberately chose this scale to suit the Chivers Hunslet models I have. Now trying to get 009 / 3mm version carriages printed so interested in this cost debate,

[jhb171achill]

Nice loco body - in the pic it looks neat. Is this the way it came out of the printer or has it been tidied up?

[BosKonay]

9 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Nice loco body - in the pic it looks neat. Is this the way it came out of the printer or has it been tidied up?

Pretty sure that’s a 3D CAD render not an actual print. 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, BosKonay said:

Pretty sure that’s a 3D CAD render not an actual print. 

Ah! Ok.....

[Mayner]

3D prints tend to have either a texture like rough cast plastering or a layer cake effect as the plastic is deposited in layers. 

In a way Shapeways WSF would be an excellent material for the traditional Irish cottage,  farmhouse, bungalow or semi-detached or terraced house with a lime wash or cement plaster finish.

[KMCE]

I had a go at this using Shapeways for the Class 495 and as JM noted above, the finish is quite lined as the plastic is laid down in layers.

Pre painting stage:

 

Up close these lines are quite visible, however with a coat of primer and at normal viewing distance, they are not overly obvious.

 

Finish is not bad, with cost of €58 for the printing and delivery.

Quite an amount of sanding / finishing would be needed to get to a polished finish, however the more detail added, the more difficult it will be to smooth the surface!

 

For the moment, I think I'll stick to brass until printer quality improves.

Ken

[Noel]

Nice print. She looks like she was printed in FUD (frosted ultra detail) material. Way smoother than WSF but  tough as nails so can be harder to work or shape afterwards

Edited December 21, 2018 by Noel